gb push discussion *stay civil*

[DeletedUser]

For the same reason why the rule "Having a friend create an account for the sole purpose of donating goods/Forge Points" is in the section "Playing on a shared connection".

What reason is that?

 

[DeletedUser]

What reason is that?

Because the rules are badly written. I don't know whether it's due to lack of time, multiple modifications, or something else, but I hope that the next set of rules that Blacksmith & Co. are working right now will be better formulated.

 

[DeletedUser]

Some of this I mentioned on the first day, but it was never fully addressed.

all cheating players should be penalized.

No if, ands or buts about it.

Cheating needs to be dealt with swiftly across the board without exception.

You are aware of players using the FP push since the GBs were first introduced.
These players especially should be penalized as they have been gaining in every-way
possible without penalty. Makes little sense to just punish those who didn't "stop" at the
warning. They cheated they get penalized. Otherwise re-instate those players who had
actions taken against them. No room for bias here.

They should not be allowed to continue to "prosper" from their ill-gotten buildings, it puts the entire
community of "honest" players at a great disadvantage.

In essence we the "law abiding" players are being punished every time they gain resources, medals, forge points etc from their wrongfully obtained buildings. This includes those that stopped after the warning. They still have illegitimate buildings assisting them every pvp battle, sector, and any other gain they make is another "slap in the face" to those playing by the rules. Complete retroactive rollback is the only way for this issue to be fairly resolved. It was done for the points structure, it can be implemented here too.

I have to disagree. Some time ago mods explicitly stated that multi-world FP trade is "allowed but frowned upon". If the actions were allowed at the time they were performed, they are not punishable. No ex post facto laws.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have to disagree. Some time ago mods explicitly stated that multi-world FP trade is "allowed but frowned upon". If the actions were allowed at the time they were performed, they are not punishable. No ex post facto laws.

The rules have been updated - punishments are occuring for infractions after the change and not from before.

See post #10 in this thread (quoted below).

If we are now aware of the rules and no longer donate to each other will this affect donations given before the the 7th(Is that the date?)??

No because of the mishaps with the announcement and forum discussions I am ignoring all actions taken before the announcement was given. Like a grace period for players. I have talked about this for almost 2 months in the forums and Archangel gave an announcement in game on the 12th which I believe to be extremely nice and a good line drawn in the sand as of the 12th.

Anyway, the rules explicitly state that trading across world is not allowed:

5) Account trading

It is not allowed to play accounts for commercial purposes. It is not allowed to sell, buy or offer accounts or parts of accounts in exchange for Premium points or any other outside benefit. Trades involving more than one game world are also forbidden. Such instances can result in a ban.

So, if you are still trading across worlds then you are breaking the rules and can be punished for these infractions.

 

[DeletedUser]

The rules have been updated - punishments are occuring for infractions after the change and not from before.

If you mean - punish everyone who did this after the rules were updated, then I have no objections here. I just understood your original post as if you want to punish even those who did it before the update and stopped after that ("You are aware of players using the FP push since the GBs were first introduced.").

Anyway, the rules explicitly state that trading across world is not allowed:

5) Account trading

It is not allowed to play accounts for commercial purposes. It is not allowed to sell, buy or offer accounts or parts of accounts in exchange for Premium points or any other outside benefit. Trades involving more than one game world are also forbidden. Such instances can result in a ban.

So, if you are still trading across worlds then you are breaking the rules and can be punished for these infractions.

This is an example of a badly formulated rule (which are, of course, to be expected in a live game like FoE). First, two first sentences of this section refer to "external trade" rather some in-game operations. When I first read the rules I thought (naturally) that the 3rd sentence also describes some kind of for-profit (I mean real profit, cash) operation. Second, "trade" in FoE has well-defined meaning - operations on good market accessible through the button "Trade". Nothing else is a "trade", at least not without additional explicit explanations. You don't call FP donations involving one world "trade", right? The "multi-world trade" rule was way before the GBs were introduced and prohibited only illegal goods transfers. The mods point to this rule in regard to multi-world FP transfer, but I think it's a bad practice due to all above reasons. We need a new clear rule (I believe Blacksmith is working on it right now).

 

[DeletedUser6603]

I have to disagree. Some time ago mods explicitly stated that multi-world FP trade is "allowed but frowned upon". If the actions were allowed at the time they were performed, they are not punishable. No ex post facto laws.

With that statement in mind, "pushing" was in my opinion against the spirit of fair play.
The rules did state no trading with accounts (correct me if I'm mistaken), Ergo, actions
taken by players with the sole purpose of "boosting" another is prohibited.

If the Mods are not clear, the rules certainly need to be. We have had players eat up the
Great Buildings as soon as they came online. used diamonds to get them first, then used
the so called "loopholes" to even gain a further advantage. it's a snowball effect of epic
proportions.

I have my reasons why those abusing the system for so long had their warnings, and regardless
of how I feel about this it won't change. The only reason for even jumping in on this debate, is
to hope for greater clarity in the rules, before any new gain enhancing updates are implemented.

 

[DeletedUser276]

There are no loopholes since rule 8 says that the rules can be interpreted by the mods as well as some of the rules being open and vague to cover a larger area. So if someone tries to be sneaky that can be closed fast and hard.

All the info in here is proper so I may close this thread in a bit as people can re read the information instead of asking the same thing over and over again.

Also once the anti push coding comes in this will be moot anyways.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wilberham: I agree that pushing of any kind is against the spirit of the game, but the spirit of the game is not official rules. Players asked explicitly about multi-world FP transfer, the mods explicitly said that it is allowed (rule 8, interpretation of the rules by the mods, "Their interpretation of these rules is final"). New rules can't act retroactively, I think you will agree. Case closed.

Blacksmith: Players are asking the same thing because they don't understand. They are asking it over and over again because previous explanations didn't bring any clarity.

 

[DeletedUser6603]

Wilberham: I agree that pushing of any kind is against the spirit of the game, but the spirit of the game is not official rules. Players asked explicitly about multi-world FP transfer, the mods explicitly said that it is allowed (rule 8, interpretation of the rules by the mods, "Their interpretation of these rules is final"). New rules can't act retroactively, I think you will agree. Case closed.

Blacksmith: Players are asking the same thing because they don't understand. They are asking it over and over again because previous explanations didn't bring any clarity.

The Mods weren't in agreement, that was clear. Not going to argue with you, We agree to disagree mate.

Anywho, as I stated earlier the main reason to even jump in here is to see that when future updates include
high gain implementations that can affect across servers, let us see some clear and concise rules. This way
we can all play to the best of our ability and continue enjoying this award winning game :O)


Wil

 

[DeletedUser276]

we are going over the rules now and should have some up by tomorrow night server time with all clarity.


And no I am not acting retroactivly before the rule went up.

Everything in here is very well explained. People are repeating questions now because they are too lazy to go back through the thread. Cant blame them its 9 pages long. But still......

 

[DeletedUser9300]

Before you close the thread, please answer this: Will this also be implemented in servers in other countries? Or is this specific to en server and the en server does not have any influence on other servers that receive updates a bit later than them?

 

[DeletedUser276]

once everything is settled here, it will go across all servers most likely. We are what the other servers are based off of and changes here usually have a trickle down effect to them. Though the best people to ask is the cms of the other servers as its their call what happens to their servers.... Not mine to say with any definitive answer.

as long as there are new questions that arnt already answered and relivant to what this thread is about I will keep this thread open.

I just dont want it to turn into me answering the same questions but worded differently or even the same time and time again.

 

[DeletedUser14167]

What about situation, while we have 3 players (with 3 acounts on each world):
P1 (main account in world A),
P2 (main account in world B),
P3 (main account in world C).
and P1 gives fps to P2, P2 gives fps to P3 and P3 gives fps to P1 ???
As you can see there is no direct exchange between them.

And it is easy to create more advanced system for 6, 8, 12 players....so on.
below system for 8 players (4 worlds) with non-direct support:

Spoiler

 

[DeletedUser]

If it's random then there should be no issue.

If they have all colluded together to organise pushing each other's GBs then it's pushing. But it would be up to the mods/admins to prove collusion - but they have tools to help with that.

 

[DeletedUser7837]

What about situation, while we have 3 players (with 3 acounts on each world):
P1 (main account in world A),
P2 (main account in world B),
P3 (main account in world C).
and P1 gives fps to P2, P2 gives fps to P3 and P3 gives fps to P1 ???
As you can see there is no direct exchange between them.

And it is easy to create more advanced system for 6, 8, 12 players....so on.
below system for 8 players (4 worlds) with non-direct support:

Spoiler

Poor Blacksmith , its Exam time again

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Just wait for the code! It will solve everything!

 

[DeletedUser9019]

Please excuse me if this has been asked before: Let's say someone in my guild has a GB removed on account of pushing. What happens to the FP I donated to this building, are they lost? That would seem a little unfair.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please excuse me if this has been asked before: Let's say someone in my guild has a GB removed on account of pushing. What happens to the FP I donated to this building, are they lost? That would seem a little unfair.

Hey Zooz,
Please take a look at the quote below where Blacksmith gave an answer for this.

Just a short question:
I am only active in one world so I am not affected by most of the things mentioned in this thread.

BUT what would happen if I donated FP towards a GB of a 'pushed' account - I simply don't have a chance to figure out if an account has been pushed.
Now you would go ahead and remove this peticular GB I donated towards - so what would happen to my donated FP?
I know - small chance - but still possible

Contact support. I keep a list of the fp in buildings and who donated what in gb I deleted that had more than 50 fp in the current level it was on. I got electronic post its all over my monitor with tons of info on them. I will clean them off when I wake up though if I dont have any people asking. Though those that try to claim fp that doesnt match my notes will be spanked and sat on most horribly.

 

[DeletedUser9019]

Thanks for the quote, Milady

So players should keep records of their donations? Because if a GB is removed, I can't check in-game how much I donated to it, and I sure can't remember it - got 16 buildings on my current donation list...

 

[DeletedUser14167]

If it's random then there should be no issue.

my systems will look like 'random' .
what about situation, while fps-donors are changed every week (or couple of days) with indirect support???
Above I gave simple example for 3 players - let's change it for 3 guilds (each contains 30-40 members):
players from Guild P1 (world A) donate each player from Gulid P2 (world B) and players Guild P2 donate players from Gulid P3 (world C) and members of guild P3 will do the same for players from Guild P1 (world A). so simple!

just wanted to show you, you are not able to control it.
imho the problem with pushing GB should be based on technology age.