gb push discussion *stay civil*

[DeletedUser276]

I have cleared out the old threads on this as they were asking is this allowed or not. Since they are no longer needed they are not in the forums anymore.

Try to keep things civil here. If you cannot then please refrain from posting. You can argue but be nice about it.


Great building FP trade pushes are when you have an account in one world and create an account in another world to give a player forge points in exchange for him or her to give you forge points in a different world to your great building.

If you are both giving each other forge points in the same world then there is no worries.

Some people were asking some questions about this in in-game tickets, I will try to answer them here so all can see.

1. Why did I lose x amount of GB(s)? Not all were pushed by another player.

Each Great Building that I touch I make 100% sure that it was donated to by a push account. So if more than one disappeared then that is the reason why. Even 1fp by a pusher is enough.

2.I spent my money to buy BPs for those GBs so I want my money back

If you break the rules then you get penalized whether you spend money or not. if you spend money then its best to not break the rules. Now some will want to start talking legal action on this one but its covered by the terms and conditions players accept before they are allowed to create an account here.

3.I need to get back all of my BPs for the buildings deleted.

This I will not do. If I gave back the BPs for the buildings then it would be just like it was before you started to cheat. As such anyone would love to take the chance to break the rules to get ahead if all it meant was reset back to before the cheat. Most games you lose your account totally when you cheat like this. All I do is remove what was cheated with. Much nicer.

4) I did not receive any warning about this, this is totally unfair.

Actually in the threads about this I have been saying for a month and a half that this was coming. I have given fair warnings. I do know that there are players that don't read the forums. For those Archangel Snail let an announcement go on the 12th of February over 7 days ago. The great buildings I have touched today have all been pushed AFTER that date. So even though the rule has been here since the start the official warning for it came out on the 12th so I figured a grace till that period was sufficient to be nice to the players.

5) I did not read the rules so I do not know about this.

Not really staffs problem. Each player is expected to know the rules especially after announcements went out on it.

6) I do not speak very good English so I cannot read the rules very well.

This is the English server. All the rules state that only English communication is allowed whether its in the public or private messages or guild forums. If you cant speak English there isn't much we can do about that.

I do want to note though that I only take action when I am 100% certain the rules are broken. Every player action was taken against today has admitted to cross world pushing. They just argue back that either they did not know it was against the rules or they did not get any warning before they were caught. so I may seem immovable or refuse to listen sometimes but I always take what a player has to say to mind. But with the evidence stacked up.... I did not know it was against the rules isn't a very good argument.

 

[DeletedUser6603]

Let it be known that I have not; nor ever will use a "push" account (although I have been approached to do so, and at the time found no clear reasoning not to in the rules).

There are those within my purview that obviously have, and therefore been affected by the recent actions taken.

This will eventually cause those that have been effected, to see those that have also been "abusing" the current system
to bring it to the mods/authorities attention to have them penalized as well.

All this is for the making of a very volatile community of "he said/she said" fiasco.

Personally have viewed so many discussions on this topic my head is spinning. The vague responses from authority, to plane denial that there should be no "clear" way to decide if someone is, or is not "pushing". Even the threads with Mods stating thus have now been cleared to the best of my knowledge.

Here's the simple truth as I see it (add grain of salt). The developers should have foreseen this coming, as they implemented an exploitative system in the first place (you know what I mean). So ultimately it is their responsibility for the "pushing".

Now our community is going to go up in arms for the actions taken against our players ( going to polarize us once again ).

It is not profitable to keep the status qua in these games, and those in authority know this.

I'll sit and widdle away at my mainly diamond free account. As for not costing me anything to play I would strongly disagree. I'm here spending time that is tracked and logged, making it profitable when sent to potential advertisers, and similar game developers, so as they say "time is money and money is time", Never let a gaming community devalue your worth fellow players. The more numbers playing here, the more leverage developers have to sell advertisement, and raw data. You're paying for your time here, you just might not realize it.

Wish we could all just enjoy an honorable strategic game format, where people just enjoyed their time spent ( I know sounds boring, but would be welcomed in the face of all the competitive. cut-throat formats out there).

Don't break the rules (especially if you don't know them), and Forge On in life!


Wil

 

[DeletedUser9546]

:eek:Will I be penalized if I am active and progressing (slowly - albeit not as slow as some I know) in all worlds?

If we are now aware of the rules and no longer donate to each other will this affect donations given before the the 7th(Is that the date?)??

*most "Im sorry" face ever....a really genuine one*

Let it be known that I have not; nor ever will use a "push" account (although I have been approached to do so, and at the time found no clear reasoning not to in the rules).

There are those within my purview that obviously have, and therefore been affected by the recent actions taken.

This will eventually cause those that have been effected, to see those that have also been "abusing" the current system
to bring it to the mods/authorities attention to have them penalized as well.

All this is for the making of a very volatile community of "he said/she said" fiasco.

Personally have viewed so many discussions on this topic my head is spinning. The vague responses from authority, to plane denial that there should be no "clear" way to decide if someone is, or is not "pushing". Even the threads with Mods stating thus have now been cleared to the best of my knowledge.

Wil

I agree. A neighbour of mine was very upset about the whole creation of pushing account but he has so many GBs that it would be a bit time consuming to see who donates to which. While pointing out the unfairness of pushing he did not take the time to notice that on one level of a GB someone donated almost 200 points and on another GB the same amount. If this isnt pushing, then what is?

Is it creating an account for the sole purpose of using FPs and nothing else? What if you progress?
I know people who started at the same time as I did and are still in EMA while I am in CA and they have been donating hundreds almost thousands of FPs to someones GB because they are "stuck"....pfffttt Is this pushing?

 

[DeletedUser2206]

Many of us are now going through our "Friends" lists, and deleting those whom we don't really know, just in case they are a "pusher."

We have no way of knowing if someone is doing this, so it now comes down to the developers setting something up so that we can set our GB donations to Guild Only, like in the trading.

 

[DeletedUser9546]

Many of us are now going through our "Friends" lists, and deleting those whom we don't really know, just in case they are a "pusher."

We have no way of knowing if someone is doing this, so it now comes down to the developers setting something up so that we can set our GB donations to Guild Only, like in the trading.

Agreed ... what if the person is in your guild and decides to give you 200fps?

 

[DeletedUser1983]

Many of us are now going through our "Friends" lists, and deleting those whom we don't really know, just in case they are a "pusher."

We have no way of knowing if someone is doing this, so it now comes down to the developers setting something up so that we can set our GB donations to Guild Only, like in the trading.

To me it all seems to be developers' fault that they allowed FP donations from friend lists.. Anyone would have been tempted to take this opportunity and use it to their advantage... Quite a few of the top 100 players from various worlds (and many of them your "cash cows") had already left when GBs were released. And now many would leave because they would feel "ripped off" because of incompetencies of the developers not thinking logically and creating flawed algorithms. I had in-fact informed mods/developers about this issue several times but I was only told that "it is allowed in the system so we can't take any actions against such rule breakers."

This is an action I do not approve of, and am now quitting all of the Inno games with Immediate effect.

 

[DeletedUser]

This whole thing has been poorly explained, and there are definitely ways to frame someone who is unaware of the consequences. Obviously you're set on your course though, so not sure what there is to discuss. Especially considering a whole thread containing peoples legitimate concerns was deleted. Already the same questions are appearing here..

The announcement contained a broken link when it first appeared, and it was obviously unclear to a lot of people as to what had changed in the rules. It's entirely possible that someone could be unaware of these rules, especially when things like this are acceptable practice in many other browser games. What about people who started playing after that announcement?How do you access the game rules from the game? Is it actually not possible? I find that hard to believe, but I can't find them (might just be me:confused

I feel bad for the people that lost their buildings, I doubt many of them had any truly malicious intent. I'll also say that I see no problem with cross world trading, in fact I think it enhances the game significantly. Shared connections operating multiple accounts is one thing, but people helping each other and making alliances across the internet is why I play these games in the first place.

 

[DeletedUser6422]

IMO it's too easy to avoid all this confusion.
1. INACTIVE accounts should be DELETED. I personally clicked by mistake in two worlds I never played and my accounts there are still active (4 and 2 months later).
2. If administrators realize any PUSHING account, they should immediately DELETE it.
3. If administrators believe that PUSHED accounts are same guilty as pushing ones, then developers have to give players the ABILITY TO BLOCK (or delete) FP's donation.

 

[DeletedUser]

I started accounts for FP's support in all words ...

In the morning the new rules came out, i stopped logging in in those worlds, and keept playing only my main world Brisgard

I needed FP's support so i contacted lots of small and big players and some guild leaders that after some research didnt had GB's in theyr guild, and added and told them to add me if they r interested in active pol/mot and FP help my GB's

So i hope every thing is by the rules now ... or isnt it?

on another mather, what if i want to start to play for real in other worlds for the diamonds?

 

[DeletedUser276]

bah there seems to be some confusion to what is actually being said and people giving each other wrong information or jumping on information that wasnt given at all. I am going to be really blunt since that is what is being asked by most of the players posting in here. Normally I am a bit ambiguous in my wording but will be as crisp and clear as I can... hopefully wont get in trouble for this. But some of you may not like what i say as you perceive me as the face of the company. Just remember you wanted directness.

Great building FP trade pushes are when you have an account in one world and create an account in another world to give a player forge points in exchange for him or her to give you forge points in a different world to your great building.

If someone does this

Agreed ... what if the person is in your guild and decides to give you 200fps?

Your fine. Its when you give the fp back that its in breach of rule 5. Especially if you try to be sneaky and use a "spouses" account or a multi account on another world to get around this rule, you will be found out and penalized. The more sneaky players try to be the more serious the penalty put forth.

I do want to note though that I only take action when I am 100% certain the rules are broken. Every player action was taken against today has admitted to cross world pushing.

As you can see by that, each person was actually guilty of breaking the rules. Not one actually denied doing these actions. All trades were done AFTER the announcement on the 12th which gave them 7 days to stop which they didnt.

:eek:Will I be penalized if I am active and progressing (slowly - albeit not as slow as some I know) in all worlds?

no

If we are now aware of the rules and no longer donate to each other will this affect donations given before the the 7th(Is that the date?)??

No because of the mishaps with the announcement and forum discussions I am ignoring all actions taken before the announcement was given. Like a grace period for players. I have talked about this for almost 2 months in the forums and Archangel gave an announcement in game on the 12th which I believe to be extremely nice and a good line drawn in the sand as of the 12th.

I agree. A neighbour of mine was very upset about the whole creation of pushing account but he has so many GBs that it would be a bit time consuming to see who donates to which. While pointing out the unfairness of pushing he did not take the time to notice that on one level of a GB someone donated almost 200 points and on another GB the same amount. If this isnt pushing, then what is?

Was he paying the other guy back in another world? If so then thats a no no. Getting 200fp donated could be seen as a nice gesture by a player. I take the time and look. I spent 12 hours today going through records and cross matching just to be sure before I started jumping. if there is a small chance I was wrong in any decision of jumping then my feet stayed planted and I didnt do anything.

Is it creating an account for the sole purpose of using FPs and nothing else? What if you progress?
I know people who started at the same time as I did and are still in EMA while I am in CA and they have been donating hundreds almost thousands of FPs to someones GB because they are "stuck"....pfffttt Is this pushing?

your only bad if you gave fp back in another world according to how the rules are set up. This is not quite pushing its more like fp trading across worlds. But people know the term pushing better and this is kinda pushing. mmmm not that blunt. its 50% trade 50% push. Your trading fp to push great buildings on separate worlds. If your pushing on the same world thats different as you cant push theirs and yours at the same time. Helping other players with no return on other worlds means you and they are ok. And maybe they are just nice people

Many of us are now going through our "Friends" lists, and deleting those whom we don't really know, just in case they are a "pusher."

We have no way of knowing if someone is doing this, so it now comes down to the developers setting something up so that we can set our GB donations to Guild Only, like in the trading.

You dont have to delete your friends. Just be careful who you donate to on other worlds. *shrug* If you have a world with a main account. Stick with that account.

To me it all seems to be developers' fault that they allowed FP donations from friend lists.. Anyone would have been tempted to take this opportunity and use it to their advantage... Quite a few of the top 100 players from various worlds (and many of them your "cash cows") had already left when GBs were released.

I dont have cash cows. And I have said many many times in these forums that I personally dont care that people spend money on this game. This though is my feelings. I treat everyone the same. people spending money just means they give money for a specific purpose and they get what they pay for. So throwing around cash cows and supporter wont get you anywhere with me. So best drop the attitude and be respectful if you want respect back.

And now many would leave because they would feel "ripped off" because of incompetencies of the developers not thinking logically and creating flawed algorithms.

no they are "leaving" (so far only 2 have left) because they cant find a work around with the rules to cheat. Dont blame the devs for stupid players trying to cheat. The cheaters are the ones that ruin it for the rest. Also this is beta mate. There is in the terms and conditions AND the rules wording that using holes in the coding to get around certain aspects to the game is a big no no. So yes that was taken into consideration. When a game is made there will be flaws till the final product is released. In most games even after the final product is released there is still minor flaws that escape detection.

I had in-fact informed mods/developers about this issue several times but I was only told that "it is allowed in the system so we can't take any actions against such rule breakers."

This is an action I do not approve of, and am now quitting all of the Inno games with Immediate effect.

because of the mistakes is why I am not punishing people before Feb 12th. use your head man. That day every effort was made to get the info to the players. in fact most of the cheating I busted today happened after the 15th three days after the announcement. But your leaving anyways so bye.

This whole thing has been poorly explained, and there are definitely ways to frame someone who is unaware of the consequences. Obviously you're set on your course though, so not sure what there is to discuss. Especially considering a whole thread containing peoples legitimate concerns was deleted. Already the same questions are appearing here.

I explained whats going on here. Your running off of a misconception.

You need to get fp in one world.... go to another world and pay them fp there to be penalized. This isnt a oh hey I will give him 100 fp and mess him over muhwahahaha. Seems pretty well thought out to me. Dunno what can be taken advantage of to sabotage players. It is in the rules. It is in the forums. it was announced in game. If someone doesnt know its because they decide they dont want to read. In the end its their decision. I cant hold everyones hand.

The announcement contained a broken link when it first appeared, and it was obviously unclear to a lot of people as to what had changed in the rules. It's entirely possible that someone could be unaware of these rules, especially when things like this are acceptable practice in many other browser games. What about people who started playing after that announcement?How do you access the game rules from the game? Is it actually not possible? I find that hard to believe, but I can't find them (might just be me:confused

I dont know. I am not ingame. Archangel Snail would know that. See I admit when I dont know something

I feel bad for the people that lost their buildings, I doubt many of them had any truly malicious intent. I'll also say that I see no problem with cross world trading, in fact I think it enhances the game significantly. Shared connections operating multiple accounts is one thing, but people helping each other and making alliances across the internet is why I play these games in the first place.

creating multiple accounts across world uses server space. Space usable for more customers. This in turn puts non active players on worlds that only give fp. This ruins neighborhoods as people dont get attack points as the cities never have defenders. They dont grow and just plain take up space.

I also dont feel sorry for those penalized because each one was donating fps way before feb 12th and continued way after that date as well. The ones with the potential for innocence I left alone. But no one ever seems to read that part of my wordings.

IMO it's too easy to avoid all this confusion.
1. INACTIVE accounts should be DELETED. I personally clicked by mistake in two worlds I never played and my accounts there are still active (4 and 2 months later).
2. If administrators realize any PUSHING account, they should immediately DELETE it.
3. If administrators believe that PUSHED accounts are same guilty as pushing ones, then developers have to give players the ABILITY TO BLOCK (or delete) FP's donation.

Unfortunately my hands are tied for deletions. For each deletion there is tons of ladders to climb to get permission.

I started accounts for FP's support in all words ...

In the morning the new rules came out, i stopped logging in in those worlds, and keept playing only my main world Brisgard

I needed FP's support so i contacted lots of small and big players and some guild leaders that after some research didnt had GB's in theyr guild, and added and told them to add me if they r interested in active pol/mot and FP help my GB's

So i hope every thing is by the rules now ... or isnt it?

As I said if you stopped donating across worlds I wont care anymore. I have had a few contact me when the ingame announcements were made saying they were guilty of this and they promised to stop immediately. Up front honesty is great. It shows that they maybe didnt know and so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Each person I got today said they were guilty but tried blaming us for various reasons. That doesnt fly well with me.

Try to read what I said please on how this is and dont jump to conclusions. This is why I made this thread so you can ask questions and I can answer. It seems too many are still confused and think any fp donations is bad. fp donations are excellent to do. So long as no sneakiness is involved or rule breaches.

By the way I said in the topic to be civil. Each person insulting in this thread has been penalized and their threads removed. I am willing to discuss.... so long as no insults, name calling or rude comments are made.

 

[DeletedUser9070]

Can we get a clarification on this specific situation :

2 super active players playing on 2 worlds (score 40k+), they know each others from 1 world (guild mates), are they allowed to donate to each other GBs on either worlds?

 

[DeletedUser7128]

:eek:Will I be penalized if I am active and progressing (slowly - albeit not as slow as some I know) in all worlds?

If we are now aware of the rules and no longer donate to each other will this affect donations given before the the 7th(Is that the date?)??

*most "Im sorry" face ever....a really genuine one*



I agree. A neighbour of mine was very upset about the whole creation of pushing account but he has so many GBs that it would be a bit time consuming to see who donates to which. While pointing out the unfairness of pushing he did not take the time to notice that on one level of a GB someone donated almost 200 points and on another GB the same amount. If this isnt pushing, then what is?

Is it creating an account for the sole purpose of using FPs and nothing else? What if you progress?
I know people who started at the same time as I did and are still in EMA while I am in CA and they have been donating hundreds almost thousands of FPs to someones GB because they are "stuck"....pfffttt Is this pushing?

The player was a Guild member and the rest Neighbours. Any Friends that donated and not grew was deleted.

 

[DeletedUser276]

Can we get a clarification on this specific situation :

2 super active players playing on 2 worlds (score 40k+), they know each others from 1 world (guild mates), are they allowed to donate to each other GBs on either worlds?

no

If one gives fp on one world with the intent that the other gives fp on another world that is in breach of rule 5 which states no multi world trades allowed.

 

[DeletedUser]

If there are Players A and B and they both play on worlds C and D, is this pushing:

1. If player A donates to player B on both worlds C and D and player B reciprocates and donates to player A on both worlds C and D as well?
2. If player A donates to player B on both worlds C and D and player B only donates to player A on world C?
3. If player A donates to player B only on world C and player B donates to player A only on world D and neither A's account on C or B's account on D progresses?
4. If player A donates to player B only on world C and player B donates to player A only on world D and both A's account on C and B's account on D progresses?

 

[DeletedUser276]

wow my eyes blur just looking at that. its like a school exam.

really mate your best just to stick with your first option. Its safe and wont get anyone in trouble. The rest honestly I cant read... plus it really smells like someone trying to find a loop hole to take advantage of. Plus.... I have been on here 18 hours working and my brain just aint accepting your examples.

*edit
read it... I dont care about progresses. That had nothing to do with my posts in here at all in my examples and explanations.

There will be a coding update though in a short while.... should fix this whole thing by putting blockers in place. Not penalties... just make it extremely hard to cheat in this. I sure hope like heck it gets here soon.

 

[DeletedUser]

Not trying to find a loophole, just trying to understand what the new rule means.

I asked about progress because, from the discussion thread last week (which I now can't seem to find), and the rules:

2) Playing on a shared connection

Playing on a connection with multiple people is allowed however some restrictions apply. Operating a push account is forbidden. This is defined as routine resource transfers from one account to the next. If our tools detect pushing behaviour, or we see evidence that one person is controlling multiple accounts (multi-accounting) our support team may contact you. Strong evidence of illegal behaviour may result in a ban directly.
Pushing behaviours:
- Using a dummy account to provide goods to main account.
- Using a dummy account to provide Forge Points to main account.
- Having a friend create an account for the sole purpose of donating goods/Forge Points.

It makes it un-clear in the rules what happens if the account is NOT created for the sole purpose of donating goods/Forge points - i.e. the account is created to be played and does progress (or is created to do quests to try to win diamonds for use on another world as some players do) and it happens that they also donate FP to another player's great buildings on that world.

Does it make a difference if there is no reciprocal donating and the transfer of FP is only one-way (as a gift).

Also, please can you link to this thread from the appropriate section of the rules - players who do not read the forum but do decide to read the rules will never find this.

 

[DeletedUser276]

Not trying to find a loophole, just trying to understand what the new rule means.

its not a new rule.

This is enforcement of rule #5 which says no cross world trades of any kind.

I asked about progress because, from the discussion thread last week (which I now can't seem to find), and the rules:
It makes it un-clear in the rules what happens if the account is NOT created for the sole purpose of donating goods/Forge points - i.e. the account is created to be played and does progress (or is created to do quests to try to win diamonds for use on another world as some players do) and it happens that they also donate FP to another player's great buildings on that world.

I dont do sole purpose accounts. I am talking about cross world trading which in rule 5 has always been there.

Does it make a difference if there is no reciprocal donating and the transfer of FP is only one-way (as a gift).

Gifts are fine. Players though I noticed are trying to get around that by getting 'gifts' on their account then using a 3rd account to 'gift' the other player back. That doesnt work.

Also, please can you link to this thread from the appropriate section of the rules - players who do not read the forum but do decide to read the rules will never find this.

http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/announcement.php?f=7&a=5

rule 5 states

5) Account trading

It is not allowed to play accounts for commercial purposes. It is not allowed to sell, buy or offer accounts or parts of accounts in exchange for Premium points or any other outside benefit. Trades involving more than one game world are also forbidden. Such instances can result in a ban.

the bolded part is the important part.

archangel snail was supposed to post a cleaner version of the rules yesterday.. The part he added was more for clarification sake... but made things worse it looks like.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually Marty has a point. Until last night we got the idea that cross-world FP donating was all right as long as the villages were not made for the sole purpose of donating FPs. So if you were active on all the worlds and doing quests and advancing on the map and gathering coins and supplies and all that, donating FPs to others and getting something back was not to be considered a breach of rules. A clear breach of the rules was a village that didnt advance and did nothing but traded for FPs. At least thats what I got out of it and you even congratulated me for understanding how things are.
Last night everything changed and any sort of cross-world FP trading has become a breach of the rules which is fine but thats not what we were made to believe in the previous discussions here.
It would have been a lot easier if it was stated loud and clear weeks ago that no cross-world FP donations is allowed under no circumstances. If you said that there was no need for further discussions.

 

[DeletedUser276]

lol well to lay your worries to rest.... the accounts I got today were all from boosts of lower level accounts who's main account was on another world.

Too many players trying to twist words and bend rules to get what they want. Honestly right now its 4am and I been at this since 8am so 20 hours. I need some sleep.

I am not saying you did that... if you did that would mean you were blatantly breaking the rules and your gb would be nom nom'ed.

Today I just went after the ones that were the biggest rule breakers and the most blatant breaches even with your understanding of how those rules work. Lets hope that people take notice for the future and stop what they are doing.

 

[DeletedUser6603]

I read that in the posts as well Wall,

Can't find it anywhere to quote, so I'm guessing it's gone too.