The Arc is too powerful

[DeletedUser7719]

Is that better explained?

Nor really.

Example:
- Gertrude asks Joe to swap.
- The top reward of Joe's GB is 300 FPs. The maximum amount will be 570. 300 + 90% = 570. Or 300 * 1.90 = 570.
- Gertrude will swap 570 FPs with Joe.
- Gertrude will put 570 FPs in Joe's GB, so he's now at 9,430 FPs in packs.
- Joe will put 570 in Gertrude's GB of choice. So Gertrude has a net value of 10,000 again. 10,000 - 570 + 570 = 10,000- But when Gertrude collects, she gains 570 FPs.
- Net value of 10,570. Back at 10,000 FPs in packs, but received 570 FPs for free.

So he gives 570FP and gets 570FP? Or in other words, he could have taken the top spot without swapping in the first place? Why then would Joe then even accept the deal? If that were the case, I could make this same argument without an Arc:
- Al asks Bob to swap.
- The top reward of Bob's GB is 570FPs.
- Al will swap 570 FPs with Bob.
- Al will put 570 FPs in Bob's GB, so he's now at 9,430 FPs in packs.
- Bob will put 570 in Al's GB of choice. So Al has a net value of 10,000 again. 10,000 - 570 + 570 = 10,000
- But when Al collects, he gains 570 FPs.
- Net value of 10,570. Back at 10,000 FPs in packs, but received 570 FPs for free.

To make sure you win the top spot, just ask a guildmate to secure the 2nd spot.

 

[DeletedUser106685]

At higher levels people don't make straight up FP swaps, they make 'net' deals, factoring in the prizes each player wins, because that's the most fair way of dealing. Each player ends up with the same profit or loss.
So your whole thesis about Gertrude does not apply, unfortunately for her.

 

[joesoap]

Gertrude has 10,000 FPs in FP Packs.
Gertrude's Arc gives 90% in rewards.

did these 10,000 FPs in FP Packs miraculously appear in Gertrude's inventory, or did she have to gather them up by donating to lots of other gbs & securing the rewards, how many fps did she have to invest in order to have these fps & did she always make a profit when donating?
and did Gertrude log into her city 1 day to find she suddenly had an arc giving her 90% in rewards or did she have to gather the bps & goods needed to build it in the first place & then the hundreds of bps needed to unlock all the additional levels & the fps to level it?

as a normal, average player i havent been able to gather 10,000 fps in packs nor have i managed to get such a high level GB so hats off to Gertrude for achieving both & if she is now getting to earn extra fps from her effort then she deserves it, and at the end of the day isnt that what gbs are for, giving players extra bonuses

 

[The Tominator]

nope I don't get it ....how would Gertrude make anything apart from her reward which would be exactly what she donated
Gertrude gives joe 300 + 90% (270) total 570fps ok so now Gertrude has 9430 fps... joe donates to Gertrude 570 fps to a gb not her pack inventory so Gertrude still has 9430 fps ..when Gertrude wins the prize from joes gb then she will have 10k again not 10,570fps ...so where did this 570 fp profit come from ?
what I think you're trying to say is Gertrude gets a free donation to her gb of 570 fps...this is not a profit to Gertrude just a free donation....not really what I would do with an arc...I use the arc to make profit actual pack profit.

Frontenac at high levels is also a loophole that needs to be shut, yes.

St Marks isn't.

Any feature of the game that allows you to put in a resource only to extract more of the same resource is an abuse. In the case of St Marks, you can make the argument that you put FP in, get coins out and can turn those back into FP. But, the key difference is that the price of FP in coins goes up the more FP you buy. So there, there is a good example of how this possibility of abuse is countered by a smart mechanism within the game.

For the Arc and Frontenac no such smart mechanism exists. It's basically a licence for the filthy rich to get even more filfthy rich without having to make any effort whatsoever.

no effort whatsoever lol.... something is slipping your mind...do you seriously think my 90% arc appeared overnite no siree the amount of effort needed to get that up u would not believe...so I think I deserve to get filthy rich now all the hard work has been put in

 

[DeletedUser100832]

Nor really.

So he gives 570FP and gets 570FP? Or in other words, he could have taken the top spot without swapping in the first place? Why then would Joe then even accept the deal? If that were the case, I could make this same argument without an Arc:
- Al asks Bob to swap.
- The top reward of Bob's GB is 570FPs.
- Al will swap 570 FPs with Bob.
- Al will put 570 FPs in Bob's GB, so he's now at 9,430 FPs in packs.
- Bob will put 570 in Al's GB of choice. So Al has a net value of 10,000 again. 10,000 - 570 + 570 = 10,000
- But when Al collects, he gains 570 FPs.
- Net value of 10,570. Back at 10,000 FPs in packs, but received 570 FPs for free.

To make sure you win the top spot, just ask a guildmate to secure the 2nd spot.

Yes, A could have taken top spot without swapping. But look at it from the POV of the guy with the low-level arc (B). He just wants his GB levelled and he wants to get the best rewards he can for his 570FP. Given that the rewards in high-level GB's, even for lower places, are better than in lower-level ones, why wouldn't he go for this sort of swap?

did these 10,000 FPs in FP Packs miraculously appear in Gertrude's inventory, or did she have to gather them up by donating to lots of other gbs & securing the rewards, how many fps did she have to invest in order to have these fps & did she always make a profit when donating?
and did Gertrude log into her city 1 day to find she suddenly had an arc giving her 90% in rewards or did she have to gather the bps & goods needed to build it in the first place & then the hundreds of bps needed to unlock all the additional levels & the fps to level it?

as a normal, average player i havent been able to gather 10,000 fps in packs nor have i managed to get such a high level GB so hats off to Gertrude for achieving both & if she is now getting to earn extra fps from her effort then she deserves it, and at the end of the day isnt that what gbs are for, giving players extra bonuses

that's the 'donald trump worked hard for his money* so let's give him an easy ride' argument

it doesn't work in RL and it doesn't work here.

*when he left school he only had a few million to go by

no effort whatsoever lol.... something is slipping your mind...do you seriously think my 90% arc appeared overnite no siree the amount of effort needed to get that up u would not believe...so I think I deserve to get filthy rich now all the hard work has been put in

well, if you count the 200 or so clicks it takes to add 1200fp to an arc effort then yeah... it's effort

otherwise, no

EDIT: I agree it takes effort to get an arc to l80 quickly. But that's not a reason to give people an easy ride afterwards.

 

[The Tominator]

how do u think I got to lvl 80?

 

[DeletedUser9614]

i see some of the people here did not pay attention in their math classes. the math above has either double counting or incorrect assumptions.

With arc 90% or with arc 0%, you cannot make profit from GB if only you are using your team of donors. Rewards with full bonuses never exceed the total FPs in level, so somebody has to pay the difference. In order for you to make profit, you would have to screw up 3rd party either by that 3rd party pre-loading your GB, unfair (fixed) exchange, or hoping that 3rd party would finish the GB you started with little rewards if any.

Read it again, process it, and accept it. Arc is balanced. instead of wasting your and our time here, go back and review your algebra notes. Instead of writing laments, spend your time to figure out the quickest way to get your arc up and going. It takes some skill to do it -- finally this game rewards rewards skill.

 

[Vesiger]

spend your time to figure out the quickest way to get your arc up and going. It takes some skill to do it -- finally this game rewards skill.

So the game becomes all about the skill of acquiring and levelling an Arc in order to watch the rewards roll in...?
The original post was to claim that the Arc was unbalancing the game... sitting here as a bystander, I've increasingly received the impression from its defenders - never mind the objectors - that it does exactly that :-(

 

[DeletedUser106685]

Like I said early on in this thread, this GB is a game changer.
Just like Alcatraz was. And even the Chateau Frontenac.
People without these GBs can't compete with the players who do have them at high levels.

Alcatraz players can stomp all over your guild at GvG while you have run out of units after only a few battles.
Winning medals in (high era) PvP towers is impossible without an Alcatraz.

Frontenac players can have thousands of each good in the first week of a new era, while you're scraping out at most a few hundred a day. Not to mention the millions of medals you end up with. Without the Chateau, those last few medal expansions will take many months longer to get. If ever.

Arc players will end up with thousands of FP in their inventory, which they can re-invest to make more profit in any GB that's available to them, or use them for swaps to level their own GBs with unbelievable speed.

Now, is the Arc too powerful? I don't know. Is Alcatraz too powerful? How about the Frontenac?
It's obvious that these are all very powerful GBs. Must-haves for any active player.
I think most people just need to accept that this is now a part of the game, and adjust accordingly.
Just like everybody did with the Alcatraz.

Or should we all just decimate their output, to protect the players that haven't built them? What good will that do.
Even if the Arc would be nerfed to only 25% of its current output, it will still have a lasting impact on the game.

So I don't really see what that will achieve... besides from robbing the late comers from any chance of ever catching up with those guys that already have it on level 60-80.
Nerfing the Arc will only make sure that you'll never get your GBs up as quickly as they're doing now.
So it will only cause more mutiny on the forums with people complaining that it's not fair.
The rich will keep getting richer, and all you can do is watch.

So if you want the game to be fair, I vote that it needs to stay as it is now.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Yes, A could have taken top spot without swapping. But look at it from the POV of the guy with the low-level arc (B). He just wants his GB levelled and he wants to get the best rewards he can for his 570FP. Given that the rewards in high-level GB's, even for lower places, are better than in lower-level ones, why wouldn't he go for this sort of swap?

If we're using this argument with a level 80 Arc, look at some of the level 80+ Arcs out there, you'll pretty much only get 4th with a swap of anything less than 1K if FPs, which awards around 7BPs and 60FP. You're better off trading with someone with a level18-26 Arc where you get 200+ FP and 5 or 6BPs for 1st, and that could cost as low as 600FP.
According to those high-level Arcs contribution lists, you need to trade probably 2K+ FPs to go for 1st, and even then I'm sure those high-level Arcs will know to still rip you off and find a way for someone else to take that prize.

 

[DeletedUser]

To make sure you win the top spot, just ask a guildmate to secure the 2nd spot.

Huh, that is exactly what I wrote.

Nor really.

So he gives 570FP and gets 570FP? Or in other words, he could have taken the top spot without swapping in the first place? Why then would Joe then even accept the deal? If that were the case, I could make this same argument without an Arc:
- Al asks Bob to swap.
- The top reward of Bob's GB is 570FPs.
- Al will swap 570 FPs with Bob.
- Al will put 570 FPs in Bob's GB, so he's now at 9,430 FPs in packs.
- Bob will put 570 in Al's GB of choice. So Al has a net value of 10,000 again. 10,000 - 570 + 570 = 10,000
- But when Al collects, he gains 570 FPs.
- Net value of 10,570. Back at 10,000 FPs in packs, but received 570 FPs for free.

Without an Arc? Hahaha. Very funny. Try to win the top spot without a loss or without the help of a 2nd and 3rd donator to share the loss to secure the spots. Your example doesn't make sense at all.

Usually, when you do daily swaps, if you can win back more than 30% of your swap, you are lucky. Because you end up on the top spot all by yourself, secured a long time ago and when it collects, the reward won't be more than 20-30%. The only time you can get more back when you swap, is when a friend/guildmate asks you to swap to level a GB, usually, it will be a good reward on your swap, but that's called Packs Swapping in my book. It's not daily swaps.

Now, not only you can win back 100% of your FPs, you even get for free the basic net reward another time. Doh!

The only way Gertrude and Joe can do this, is because they have 90 and 80% bonus from their Arc, otherwise they wouldn't be able to secure the top 2 spots. My suggestion to drop it to 0.1% after level 10 is for a reason.

Even worst now, is that with such high Arcs, they don't even need now to put 90% and 80% more FPs, they can often make a net profit on top of that.

For example, since I need to be very precise with numbers. If the top reward is 300 FPs and the Arc bonus of Gertrude is 90%, she doesn't even need to put 570 FPs to win the top spot, with the help of 2 friends/guildmates, she can simply put 500 and it will secure her top spot. So, getting even more free FPs.

Geez, look at the New Ranking thread, even there they write about how the Arc is too powerful. Only people that don't like this thread are the ones abusing it and even some that abuse it are mature enough to admit it is too powerful.

I only have a level 11 Arc, 32% bonus and I can already see the power it can bring me. I earn over 100 FPs per day. So, if I lose 50-60 FPs to secure 5-6 BPs, I don't care, that's not even half a day's worth of FPs. I will be laughing my socks off when I will be at 50%. Before my Arc, losing 25-50 FPs per BPs was acceptable, now, if it's more than 10 FPs per BP, I will find another GB to snipe.

 

[DeletedUser]

nope I don't get it ....how would Gertrude make anything apart from her reward which would be exactly what she donated
Gertrude gives joe 300 + 90% (270) total 570fps ok so now Gertrude has 9430 fps... joe donates to Gertrude 570 fps to a gb not her pack inventory so Gertrude still has 9430 fps ..when Gertrude wins the prize from joes gb then she will have 10k again not 10,570fps ...so where did this 570 fp profit come from ?
what I think you're trying to say is Gertrude gets a free donation to her gb of 570 fps...this is not a profit to Gertrude just a free donation....not really what I would do with an arc...I use the arc to make profit actual pack profit.

Without an Arc, Gertrude would put 570 FPs, get back 300. Loss of 270. But Joe puts 570 also. So, technically Gertrude spent 270 FPs and she got 570 from Joe. So, a profit of 300. Usually thought, daily swaps are less profitable than that. If you make a profit of 30%, you are lucky. But it's ok, since it's a profit.

Before the Arc, what would limit you is the FP Packs. After a few Packs Swapping, you end up with very little. Sure, technically we made a profit, but our packs quantity would lower and lower. What do I mean?

In the above example, if Gertrude puts 570 FPs in packs and win back 300, she lost 270 in packs. Only way to rebuild your packs is from your daily FP collection, to win rewards from FPs you get from your city. Or if you can somehow make a profit from donating to a GB, but that's not the usual method.

Now, not only Gertrude gets 570 in rewards, so 100% FPs back, she ALSO gets the 570 FPs from Joe. That's a 200% return. Hello?

 

[DeletedUser]

Before my Arc, losing 25-50 FPs per BPs was acceptable, now, if it's more than 10 FPs per BP, I will find another GB to snipe.

I've never sniped GBs when I lose 25 FP per BP, even before Arc.

Actually, I rarely sniped GBs when I lost 10 FP per BP either. Maybe you should look for better deals. Most snipes I do are at a cost of 5 FP or less, per BP. (without Arc)

 

[DeletedUser7719]

I've never sniped GBs when I lose 25 FP per BP, even before Arc.

Actually, I rarely sniped GBs when I lost 10 FP per BP either. Maybe you should look for better deals. Most snipes I do are at a cost of 5 FP or less, per BP. (without Arc)

Agreed. Most I've done was 10FP per BP to unlock my Chateau (and it was unlocked up to level 61 when it was level 52 before the Arc was introduced). I would say 50% of levels I unlocked cost my no extra FP (and no diamonds) though

Note that Chateau's are not very high in demand, so if I were aiming for an Alcatraz, I'd likely would have to increase my FP per BP (which is exactly why I didn't go for aimlessly leveling my Alcatraz)

 

[DeletedUser99363]

wow congrats K.D great effort and already 307 more levels in front amazing job, i agree with you takes effort and time to do that, maybe a bit easier if spend diamonds, but can be done without just a bit slower, key is finding a good partner with lots of daily FP 100+ or so doe sit pretty good
wow 307 lvls in front of you, perhaps its time to focus on Cape or Chateau to maximize other bonus or if yo ufight Attack GB's with FP also like CDM
Congrats indeed

 

[DeletedUser]

I see some have trouble reading long posts.

Huscarl, BoD, you are just like reporters and taking parts of a sentence and replying to it.

I earn over 100 FPs per day.

Keywords. Most don't generate as many FPs each day, I know. So 25FPs per FP is a lot. NOT FOR ME. Why do you refuse to take this part of the sentence into consideration? Doh?

 

[DeletedUser7719]

I see some have trouble reading long posts.

Huscarl, BoD, you are just like reporters and taking parts of a sentence and replying to it.

So if you don't want to read long posts, how would you expect to read my reply if I based it off your entire reply? To be exact, my previous replies were based off your entire reply; that last one was just adding confirmation to Huscarl's reply.

I earn over 100 FPs per day.

Keywords. Most don't generate as many FPs each day, I know. So 25FPs per FP is a lot. NOT FOR ME. Why do you refuse to take this part of the sentence into consideration? Doh?

How do you think I got to the level 52 Chateau (before the Arc was introduced) without earning at least 100FP a day? If I did 25FPs per BP it would be wasting FP that I could have pumped into my Chateau hence why I don't.

 

[DeletedUser]

How do you think I got to the level 52 Chateau (before the Arc was introduced) without earning at least 100FP a day? If I did 25FPs per BP it would be wasting FP that I could have pumped into my Chateau hence why I don't.

Not because some GBs are not worth paying 10-25FPs per FPs means that all GBs are not. The most popular GBs will always have people pay 10-25 and more FPs per BP. The more you want BPs, the more you will accept to pay. And the more you earn FPs, the less they are valuable to you.

Doesn't change my math. The Arc is providing 200% FP returns. Before the Arc, most of the times it was less than 30%. I can provide you hundreds of screenshots to proove it, if you don't believe me.

And not becasuse you are against an idea that means you can use ONE exception to make an entire logic fail. Exceptions confirm a rule, as we say. But exceptions don't make a logic, a rule wrong.

 

[DeletedUser]

Doesn't change my math. The Arc is providing 200% FP returns. Before the Arc, most of the times it was less than 30%. I can provide you hundreds of screenshots to proove it, if you don't believe me.

Please provide a screenshot of Arc turning 30% returns into 200% returns. You don't even have to post hundreds. A single screenshot would suffice.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please provide a screenshot of Arc turning 30% returns into 200% returns. You don't even have to post hundreds. A single screenshot would suffice.

No need, I explained the math 6-7 times already. Can't be more clear.