The Arc is too powerful

[DeletedUser15501]

All this math explains nothing, most players use their high level Arc to snipe GBs and get good deals on BP and FP. I have a lvl 18 Arc and rarely do any FP swaps as it's hard to find a good and balanced deal with someone. Now you can argue that 90% bonus is just too powerful and I can understand that viewpoint. I think to illustrate why you should compare it with a lvl 80 Cape for instance which provides 80 FP/day for free without doing anything except clicking once a day. That's pretty powerful if you ask me. An Arc requires a more active playing style but it has the potential of netting you more than 80 FP/day in profit. It requires a lot of time investment though to find the right GBs to invest your FP in. But at 90% this should not be very hard, especially if you're one of the only ones in your world with that bonus. In a few months when more people have high Arc bonuses there's going to be a lot more competition for good spots on GBs so it will become harder. All in all I'm on the fence whether I think the Arc is OP or not. If I had designed the game I would have probably capped it at 50-60%, but at this point I also don't see how 90% breaks the game exactly. You get a lot of free FP sure, but you also get that from a lvl 100 Cape.

 

[DeletedUser]

To get a level 80 Cape, do you know when that person will break even, if he swapped fairly the FPs to bring it up to that point? Maybe in 5 years.

I'm exagerating, but your should at least understand that.

Can't be more precise with the math. You get 200% return after a certain point, like Gertrude and Bartholemew's level. And it gets worst than 200% return, as now they are not putting 90% or 80%, they are putting less, making more of a profit.

If YOU do not understand, it doesn't make it wrong. YOU do not understand, that is YOUR problem, not mine.

 

[DeletedUser]

If YOU do not understand, it doesn't make it wrong. YOU do not understand, that is YOUR problem, not mine.

Actually it is your problem. You're the one who needs to convince people to support your proposal.

 

[DeletedUser15501]

To get a level 80 Cape, do you know when that person will break even, if he swapped fairly the FPs to bring it up to that point? Maybe in 5 years.

More like 1.5 years. And the same counts for the Arc, do you know how long it will take for someone with a lvl 80 Arc to break even? That's a lot of GBs you have to snipe at a profit before you get all those tens of thousands of FP back.

If YOU do not understand, it doesn't make it wrong. YOU do not understand, that is YOUR problem, not mine.

I understand it alright. It's actually YOU who seems to be having a problem with it.

 

[DeletedUser100832]

All this math explains nothing, most players use their high level Arc to snipe GBs and get good deals on BP and FP. I have a lvl 18 Arc and rarely do any FP swaps as it's hard to find a good and balanced deal with someone. Now you can argue that 90% bonus is just too powerful and I can understand that viewpoint. I think to illustrate why you should compare it with a lvl 80 Cape for instance which provides 80 FP/day for free without doing anything except clicking once a day. That's pretty powerful if you ask me. An Arc requires a more active playing style but it has the potential of netting you more than 80 FP/day in profit. It requires a lot of time investment though to find the right GBs to invest your FP in. But at 90% this should not be very hard, especially if you're one of the only ones in your world with that bonus. In a few months when more people have high Arc bonuses there's going to be a lot more competition for good spots on GBs so it will become harder. All in all I'm on the fence whether I think the Arc is OP or not. If I had designed the game I would have probably capped it at 50-60%, but at this point I also don't see how 90% breaks the game exactly. You get a lot of free FP sure, but you also get that from a lvl 100 Cape.

there's a big difference between arc and cape

with cape you put a lot of fp in, and you (eventually) will get a lot of fp out. That's fine. But with an arc, you can have other people put in a lot of fp, at relatively little loss to themselves, for you to then go and get a lot of fp out (by the virtue of sniping other people's gb's at a profit). That's the problem.

suppose you have a level 40 arc and a couple of your mates have a level 59. They can effectively do about 75-80% of the levelling for you (and make a small profit themselves), leaving you to find just 20-25% of the cost to level between you and the last three contributors. _That_ is what's different here. With cape, you never get this sort of free ride to level 80.

 

[DeletedUser15501]

there's a big difference between arc and cape

with cape you put a lot of fp in, and you (eventually) will get a lot of fp out. That's fine. But with an arc, you can have other people put in a lot of fp, at relatively little loss to themselves, for you to then go and get a lot of fp out (by the virtue of sniping other people's gb's at a profit). That's the problem.

suppose you have a level 40 arc and a couple of your mates have a level 59. They can effectively do about 75-80% of the levelling for you (and make a small profit themselves), leaving you to find just 20-25% of the cost to level between you and the last three contributors. _That_ is what's different here. With cape, you never get this sort of free ride to level 80.

Everyone profits from this bonus, and it's not a free ride at all. At lvl 40 20-25% of the cost to level is still a lot of FP, in practice you still need to put around 300-400 FP of your own into your GB in order to level it up. So everyone can benefit from this and if you have a high level Arc you will get more FP back and make more profits, but you also get that from a Cape GB. 80 FP/day is still a lot, you need to be very active to achieve the same or better with an Arc.

 

[DeletedUser]

Here's the reality that some people don't seem to understand.

Arc's huge boost to contribution rewards isn't a mistake. It's something that was added with the INTENT of making it easier to level GBs to a very high level. They WANT ordinary players to be able to build high level GBs in a feasible timeframe. That mindset also goes hand-in-hand with the reason they made points from GBs will be so much lower at high levels.

The Arc represents a paradigm shift: from players competing with each other fiercely to get 1 or 2 GBs to a high level, to players competing with each other to see who can get AS MANY GBs AS POSSIBLE to a high level.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually it is your problem. You're the one who needs to convince people to support your proposal.

Nope, I don't NEED. I don't CARE. I aim also to abuse of this power. It's Inno's problem, not mine.

More like 1.5 years. And the same counts for the Arc, do you know how long it will take for someone with a lvl 80 Arc to break even? That's a lot of GBs you have to snipe at a profit before you get all those tens of thousands of FP back.

Hahaha. 1.5 years for an Arc at level 80. More like 2 months. Just look at HL in Houndsmoor.

My scenario couldn't be more clear. It doesn't take long you make more than 100% return when you have the help of a Gertrude.

But it's fine, Inno, don't change it. Let your game die, it's your prerogative.

 

[The Tominator]

Without an Arc, Gertrude would put 570 FPs, get back 300. Loss of 270. But Joe puts 570 also. So, technically Gertrude spent 270 FPs and she got 570 from Joe. So, a profit of 300. Usually thought, daily swaps are less profitable than that. If you make a profit of 30%, you are lucky. But it's ok, since it's a profit.

Before the Arc, what would limit you is the FP Packs. After a few Packs Swapping, you end up with very little. Sure, technically we made a profit, but our packs quantity would lower and lower. What do I mean?

In the above example, if Gertrude puts 570 FPs in packs and win back 300, she lost 270 in packs. Only way to rebuild your packs is from your daily FP collection, to win rewards from FPs you get from your city. Or if you can somehow make a profit from donating to a GB, but that's not the usual method.

Now, not only Gertrude gets 570 in rewards, so 100% FPs back, she ALSO gets the 570 FPs from Joe. That's a 200% return. Hello?

duh! ur story changes constantly...I was replying to the thread where you stated Gertrude had a 90% arc...HELLO

 

[DeletedUser97688]

There's omething that I think a lot of people are missing here. Generally, the biggest brake on progress in FOE is the tech tree. With high-level Arcs providing a large amount of FPs, a lot of players will progress along the tree far more quickly. Does Inno not see this as an issue either? They will have to provide more content faster, and, whenthey do, people will use the FP packets that they have accumulated from Arcs and blitz through the new ages quickly too. This is the bigger problem, surely?

 

[DeletedUser15501]

There's omething that I think a lot of people are missing here. Generally, the biggest brake on progress in FOE is the tech tree. With high-level Arcs providing a large amount of FPs, a lot of players will progress along the tree far more quickly. Does Inno not see this as an issue either? They will have to provide more content faster, and, whenthey do, people will use the FP packets that they have accumulated from Arcs and blitz through the new ages quickly too. This is the bigger problem, surely?

Finishing the tech tree takes fewer FP than leveling an Arc to very high levels. So if you are not finished with the tech tree yet and want to focus on leveling an Arc to high levels first that will take more time than actually focusing on finishing the tech tree first. Many people who have been playing this game for a year or longer are done with the tech tree for quite a while already. I already blitz through new ages within a day or two without the Arc, so I don't think this makes any difference really. The tech tree is just a very small part of the game if you've been playing for a while.

 

[DeletedUser]

duh! ur story changes constantly...I was replying to the thread where you stated Gertrude had a 90% arc...HELLO

No it doesn't. Not one bit. You read too fast, most probably.

 

[DeletedUser100832]

Everyone profits from this bonus, and it's not a free ride at all. At lvl 40 20-25% of the cost to level is still a lot of FP, in practice you still need to put around 300-400 FP of your own into your GB in order to level it up. So everyone can benefit from this and if you have a high level Arc you will get more FP back and make more profits, but you also get that from a Cape GB. 80 FP/day is still a lot, you need to be very active to achieve the same or better with an Arc.

20-25% is a lot, yes, but about a third of what it would take to level cape or alcatraz of a similar level before the arc came along.

in my experience, it's as easy as

-add 50fp yourself
-get arc #1 in guild to snipe you
-get arc #3 in guild (I am #2) to snipe 2nd
-either add 100-200 yourself or swap for 200
-wait for people to bite for lower rewards

and that's that, doneski. Cost to you: <250fp. For a level of a level 30+ gb.

Here's the reality that some people don't seem to understand.

Arc's huge boost to contribution rewards isn't a mistake. It's something that was added with the INTENT of making it easier to level GBs to a very high level. They WANT ordinary players to be able to build high level GBs in a feasible timeframe. That mindset also goes hand-in-hand with the reason they made points from GBs will be so much lower at high levels.

The Arc represents a paradigm shift: from players competing with each other fiercely to get 1 or 2 GBs to a high level, to players competing with each other to see who can get AS MANY GBs AS POSSIBLE to a high level.

that's all fine and well, only problem is that the lion's share of the benefits is felt by people with level 25+ gb's. Because at those levels the top reward is above 25% of the total cost to level. At lower levels it can be as low as 10%, changing the picture totally.

 

[DeletedUser15501]

20-25% is a lot, yes, but about a third of what it would take to level cape or alcatraz of a similar level before the arc came along.

in my experience, it's as easy as

-add 50fp yourself
-get arc #1 in guild to snipe you
-get arc #3 in guild (I am #2) to snipe 2nd
-either add 100-200 yourself or swap for 200
-wait for people to bite for lower rewards

and that's that, doneski. Cost to you: <250fp. For a level of a level 30+ gb.

Yep that's pretty much it. After GB levels 50-60 250 FP of your own will no longer do though, the cost will creep up again. So it has gotten easier, but it's not a free ride and everyone benefits. Better adapt to the change and accept how it is, it's not the end of the game or the world.

 

[DeletedUser]

It is a free ride, major free ride, but it's ok, if you don't understand it, that's your prerogative. But stop saying it's not a free ride, you just don't understand it.

Plus, Med's example showing a 400% return rate. For each FP spent, he gets 4 back. That's not a free ride, eh? But it's ok, -1 everyone on this idea so we can kill the game faster than it was already dying.

 

[DeletedUser15501]

It's not a free ride. How is it a free ride if it still costs you 250-400 FP per level, and more at really high levels? Do you actually understand this? Why don't you have a lvl 80 Arc yet if it's a free ride?

 

[DeletedUser12146]

It is not a free ride.

This is the same as if you would say Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, etc. got free money... They worked HARD to build there empire.

To people they lay in there sofas and eat chips, this is not ok, and protest and demand from countries that they should destroy that empire, because it is destroying the world with there products... Just lol

 

[DeletedUser]

It's not a free ride. How is it a free ride if it still costs you 250-400 FP per level, and more at really high levels? Do you actually understand this? Why don't you have a lvl 80 Arc yet if it's a free ride?

#FACEPALM

HAHAHAAH! You put/swap 400 FPs and you have people put 1200 FPs and it's not a free ride!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[DeletedUser15501]

#FACEPALM

HAHAHAAH! You put/swap 400 FPs and you have people put 1200 FPs and it's not a free ride!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So where's your lvl 80 Arc? First of all most people who are able to swap 400 FP with you will not swap with you without being guaranteed a good spot on your Arc. It doesn't take long for someone to feel cheated or ripped off with their swap and they simply will refuse to swap with you any longer. So in your example you have to first find a victim you can rip off by swapping 400 FP with them and them getting a small reward in return, while your 400 FP have to go someplace where you get at least 400 FP back... This is your idea of a free ride? LOL good luck finding an infinite supply of dumb people who are able and willing to do this with you. No wonder you don't have a lvl 80 Arc yet, you only have theories but know nothing about how things work in actual practice.

 

[DeletedUser]

So where's your lvl 80 Arc? First of all most people who are able to swap 400 FP with you will not swap with you without being guaranteed a good spot on your Arc. It doesn't take long for someone to feel cheated or ripped off with their swap and they simply will refuse to swap with you any longer. So in your example you have to first find a victim you can rip off by swapping 400 FP with them and them getting a small reward in return, while your 400 FP have to go someplace where you get at least 400 FP back... This is your idea of a free ride? LOL good luck finding an infinite supply of dumb people who are able and willing to do this with you. No wonder you don't have a lvl 80 Arc yet, you only have theories but know nothing about how things work in actual practice.

Man, you like to write anything just for the sake of writing.

"So where's your lvl 80 Arc?"

I'm not in Gertrude's guild, but if I was, I would have one already. I explained how 320 times. Read more slowly.

"First of all most people who are able to swap 400 FP with you will not swap with you without being guaranteed a good spot on your Arc."

Dunno which game you are talking about or on what medications you are on. When someone's Arc become high enough, people want to swap with you so YOU can increase THEIR Arc. Sure, many will also swap only if you also have an Arc, to get Arc BPs. But to refuse to swap because one will get a higher reward than the other? I've never seen that. That's what happens all the time in my world: as long as you get the back the same amount you give.

"LOL good luck finding an infinite supply of dumb people who are able and willing to do this with you. No wonder you don't have a lvl 80 Arc yet, you only have theories but know nothing about how things work in actual practice."

Yes, I guess, there are a lot of dumb people. Especially the ones I reply to.

It's not a theory, it's a fact that many agreed. You just keep on bashing cuz you don't want Inno to change it, cuz you want to continue to abuse the game. That's your right, stop replying with nonsense. You are obviously no good in math.