Rushing through the ages

[Emberguard]

Loved your comment up until the word "require" which could easily be far more friendly and inviting if the word "suggest" was swapped in. Strong comment well made generally!

While it’d be nice if people were naturally going to help each other, thats not normal. Wishy washy suggestions isn’t going to get a guild anywhere. It needs to be a requirement or else you’ll have a bunch of players not contributing anything. Rules tell everyone where they stand so they know what’s needed from them

For one thing if you can get players in the lower ages with Arcs and Obs then you’re able to capitalise on those that aren’t rushing through the ages. Without those GBs it’s far more likely your treasury either isn’t going to grow very fast or those in higher ages have to divide their production between lower ages and current. Having someone in the necessary age is far more efficient for farming once the GBs are up and running. This lower down get to benefit from the higher aged players building up the levels faster from their age, those higher up benefit from those lower by being able to focus on higher aged production

That is the first mention I've seen of the swap threads . . . something I have been waiting for nearly 80 replies :-)

Cool. Though the thread is about rushing ages so not entirely surprised on that

 

[DeletedUser113125]

Moving off topic, but I dislike swap threads. They are useful to get bps if all the same GB, such as Arc or HC, and limited to 6 members. I have found that players with the most FPS out donate the others and get top rewards each time. Also, if more than 6 people on the thread someone doesn’t even get bps.

The guild I founded voted on having a requirement to get a guild goods GB. They voted against. We have 30/31 members with Arcs now. As @Thomas Covenent stated, good guilds help members get bps and goods. In a way making members do something rather than them doing it of their own volition means they aren’t the members that fit the guild best. When the guild is ready, you won’t have to ask. I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be guild requirements and even we have a couple.

There is very much a place for guilds with set out rules and requirements and also for slower more care free guilds.

 

[DeletedUser117706]

While it’d be nice if people were naturally going to help each other, thats not normal. Wishy washy suggestions isn’t going to get a guild anywhere. It needs to be a requirement or else you’ll have a bunch of players not contributing anything. Rules tell everyone where they stand so they know what’s needed from them

For one thing if you can get players in the lower ages with Arcs and Obs then you’re able to capitalise on those that aren’t rushing through the ages. Without those GBs it’s far more likely your treasury either isn’t going to grow very fast or those in higher ages have to divide their production between lower ages and current. Having someone in the necessary age is far more efficient for farming once the GBs are up and running. This lower down get to benefit from the higher aged players building up the levels faster from their age, those higher up benefit from those lower by being able to focus on higher aged production


Cool. Though the thread is about rushing ages so not entirely surprised on that

I understand your position, but isn't it more important that the leaders of the guild stop blaming newer players or those with less resources for a weak guild treasury? There is no excuse for a guild not to be unlocking GE levels. If the guild treasury is wanting, the leaders of the guild should be working to fill those goods needs in the treasury with their far greater trading capacity (higher eras goods can be traded for much greater numbers of lower age goods after all).

Blaming new players or those with less resources is nonsense. It is like a manger of company blaming employees for his lack of leadership, or like a principal of a school blaming the students because the power bill wasn't paid on time and the electric company turned off the lights.

Helping new players and those with less resources grow is just one aspect of the guilds . . . top players in the guild must also make sure the treasury has enough goods, through trading if necessary, well in advance of the need arising. Blaming others for leadership failures is not a positive approach.

 

[Giskler]

Again, your input is sought on how to solve the problem of guild treasury shortfalls and ensuring guild expedition unlock-needs are met . . . what is your solution?

Building Obs or Arc, preferably both. Make it a requirement to have at least 1 of them. Not terribly difficult.

 

[DeletedUser113125]

I understand your position, but isn't it more important that the leaders of the guild stop blaming newer players or those with less resources for a weak guild treasury? There is no excuse for a guild not to be unlocking GE levels. If the guild treasury is wanting, the leaders of the guild should be working to fill those goods needs in the treasury with their far greater trading capacity (higher eras goods can be traded for much greater numbers of lower age goods after all).

Blaming new players or those with less resources is nonsense. It is like a manger of company blaming employees for his lack of leadership, or like a principal of a school blaming the students because the power bill wasn't paid on time and the electric company turned off the lights.

Helping new players and those with less resources grow is just one aspect of the guilds . . . top players in the guild must also make sure the treasury has enough goods, through trading if necessary, well in advance of the need arising. Blaming others for leadership failures is not a positive approach.

No, just no.
The original poster was asking about players going quickly up ages. The required goods might be ages above the founder. Or, if ages below they might have fewer of those goods than the guildmate in that age. Also the founder might as well solo guild if it’s going to be all their responsibility. Members aren’t meant to coast on the coat-tails of others, it’s meant to be team work. There are few players I wouldn’t want in my guild but those with your attitude would make that list.

 

[Emberguard]

I understand your position, but isn't it more important that the leaders of the guild stop blaming newer players or those with less resources for a weak guild treasury?

This isn’t about blame it’s ensuring players know what’s required of them. Just being in the guild adds a cost to the guild.

As long as the newer player is willing to learn, grow and do their best with what they have I don’t care that they can’t put in as much as the guy at the top. I do care whether the new guy is trying and demonstrates they’re putting in effort to give back to the guild or if they’re just freeloading with no intention of ever becoming a contributing member. It’s one thing to tell a younger member not to rush through ages, it’s another to be expected to front up all the costs for them

If you won’t contribute anything at all when you have little then there’s no way you’ll contribute when you have much. It’s much more painful to part with your stuff when you’ve been hoarding then when you’re poor.

There is no excuse for a guild not to be unlocking GE levels. If the guild treasury is wanting, the leaders of the guild should be working to fill those goods needs in the treasury with their far greater trading capacity (higher eras goods can be traded for much greater numbers of lower age goods after all).

Blaming new players or those with less resources is nonsense. It is like a manger of company blaming employees for his lack of leadership, or like a principal of a school blaming the students because the power bill wasn't paid on time and the electric company turned off the lights.

Helping new players and those with less resources grow is just one aspect of the guilds . . . top players in the guild must also make sure the treasury has enough goods, through trading if necessary, well in advance of the need arising. Blaming others for leadership failures is not a positive approach.

No. It’s not the leaders job to carry the guild solely with their own resources. That’s not what a leader does. They give guidance on what’s expected and ensure needs are organised in a reasonable manner. That’s what the leader does.

It’s not blame, it’s ensuring everyone contributes in proportion to what they are capable of providing rather then only taking. No one can afford to pay the cost for another member indefinitely neither is it reasonable. Of a player can’t afford to put anything into the guild treasury then they can’t afford to keep aging up and are rushing beyond their means

 

[DeletedUser117706]

Moving off topic, but I dislike swap threads. They are useful to get bps if all the same GB, such as Arc or HC, and limited to 6 members. I have found that players with the most FPS out donate the others and get top rewards each time. Also, if more than 6 people on the thread someone doesn’t even get bps.

The guild I founded voted on having a requirement to get a guild goods GB. They voted against. We have 30/31 members with Arcs now. As @Thomas Covenent stated, good guilds help members get bps and goods. In a way making members do something rather than them doing it of their own volition means they aren’t the members that fit the guild best. When the guild is ready, you won’t have to ask. I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be guild requirements and even we have a couple.

There is very much a place for guilds with set out rules and requirements and also for slower more care free guilds.

Here we are back again at whether it is better to order people around or mentor them into achieving. People join guilds to participate in Guild expeditions and to obtain help from more powerful players. Assuming that new guild members or that without kicking-rules most players will be free-riders is pure speculation.

The only reason people don't self-achieve is because of the imposition of dictates and threats of expulsions. This is the same reason people quit the game, and there are many who do quit after being exposed to dictatorial rules and unwanted harassment/bullying - this costs Inno Games millions. Also, when some players bully and try constantly to ruin game play for others (who are just trying to get to know their guild members and form positive relationships), by issuing threats of expulsion from a guild for not meeting some powerless-in-real-life person's in-game demands, that is not positive either. Just because someone holds the title of "Guild Founder" or "Leader" in no way, shape or form gives them the right to terminate the membership in a guild of an active member who is working to form positive relationships with everyone except the rule-making Founder/Leaders.

I once read an obscure quote by Mark Twain that said, "Heaven goes by favor, if it went by merit, your dog would go in and you would stay out." Twain was right and all this negative talk about meriting staying in salty guilds and imposition of end-of-the-universe-style-rules is just an excuse to mistreat others and interfere with Inno Games relationship with their other valued customers by bullying them or even making them quit. Again, making customers quit: Bad.

Ego is a funny thing; its worst sin is making others scapegoats for one's own failures. I choose to help my guild mates, not threaten their right to belong.

 

[DeletedUser113125]

Just because some holds the title of "Guild Founder" or "Leader" in no way, shape or form gives them the right to terminate membership in a guild of an active member who is working to form positive relationships with everyone except the rule-making Founder/Leaders.

Yes it does. It’s one of the actions available in the guild rights settings. This is exactly what founders and leaders can do.

Set up your own guild, enjoy the game, let it go.

 

[rjs66]

no one forces anyone to be in a guild
no one can be forced to stay in a guild

if a guild has certain requirements for its members to participate in certain ways and pay their way then the guild members should accept that and act accordingly

if someone rushes ahead in the tech , then they have a responsibility to the guild to pay their way in resources (that they cost the guild) for the expedition levels to be opened, it is also reasonable that they then participate in the guild expeditions

if they don't like it, they can leave the guild
if they don't pay their way then any sensible guild founder would kick them, for the benefit of the guild and the rest of its members

those who freeload off guilds soon find themselves looking for new guilds, and quite a few sadly don't seem to learn the basis of team work and spend most of their time moving between guilds

in this game no one can force anyone to do anything, those that are willing to accept rules within a guild tend to prosper, those that cause problems tend to fall by the wayside

you have the choice to play how you want, your actions and attitude (and yours alone) dictate whether people want you in their guild

 

[DeletedUser117706]

Yes it does. It’s one of the actions available in the guild rights settings. This is exactly what founders and leaders can do.

Set up your own guild, enjoy the game, let it go.

You misunderstood the posting. Re-read it.

 

[DeletedUser117706]

no one forces anyone to be in a guild
no one can be forced to stay in a guild

if a guild has certain requirements for its members to participate in certain ways and pay their way then the guild members should accept that and act accordingly

if someone rushes ahead in the tech , then they have a responsibility to the guild to pay their way in resources (that they cost the guild) for the expedition levels to be opened, it is also reasonable that they then participate in the guild expeditions

if they don't like it, they can leave the guild
if they don't pay their way then any sensible guild founder would kick them, for the benefit of the guild and the rest of its members

those who freeload off guilds soon find themselves looking for new guilds, and quite a few sadly don't seem to learn the basis of team work and spend most of their time moving between guilds

in this game no one can force anyone to do anything, those that are willing to accept rules within a guild tend to prosper, those that cause problems tend to fall by the wayside

you have the choice to play how you want, your actions and attitude (and yours alone) dictate whether people want you in their guild

Brutal. A well expressed position.

 

[DeletedUser117706]

For those worried about "free-loading" of others off their guilds, such a thing is not possible. Blaming new players for failures of guild leaders to help new members is possible, however. The quickest solution, a few seem to suggest, is to load all of the guild's failures on the backs of a few players and push them off into the desert. This way, all can congratulate themselves for being such wise managers of their guilds while waiting for the next batch of unsuspecting new players (seeking to belong in a guild) to come along.

I love how many excuses people are making for imposing rules on others out of speculative concern that some players potentially are "useless eaters" and might get an extra unearned scrap or morsel that falls from the guild's most powerful players' plentiful tables . . . Anyway, it is likely that some players desire to call new players, or those with less resources, "useless eaters" or more commonly "free loaders" is not the first time such has been used as an excuse to mistreat others. The solutions of some here is to impose work rules under the principle that working for the guild will set new members free, and if they can't keep up the work load terminate their guild membership apparently?

Usually what happens when this is discussed are the more rule oriented folks start insulting the intelligence or mental state of those who support more positive solutions.

 

[DeletedUser113125]

You misunderstood the posting. Re-read it.

Guild Founders can do what they like in their guild. That is the rights the system gives them. There are icons next to each member on the guild list that shows what guild rights they have been given. If you want to be in a democratic guild, where everyone has founder rights, join or found one.

I am concerned that you are taking this very personally and perhaps assuming slights when none existed. I have found very few bullies in this game. The vast majority of players are friendly, helpful and interesting to chat to. In the last 2 years I think there have been 2 players I had issue with, neither seriously, and both I put on ignore. It’s a nice city building game played mostly by adults. Maybe it’s worth thinking about why you think everyone is bullying you and mean to you? Could it be that they aren’t?

 

[Agent327]

There is absolutely nothing condescending about any comment I have made in these forums. I would ask that you stop attacking me and address the topic of this thread: How would you solve the issue of guild treasury shortfalls?

Wow!

You even see a different topic

 

[DeletedUser117706]

Wow!

You even see a different topic

Just asking an honest question, which you apparently saw as an insult??

 

[DeletedUser117706]

Guild Founders can do what they like in their guild. That is the rights the system gives them. There are icons next to each member on the guild list that shows what guild rights they have been given. If you want to be in a democratic guild, where everyone has founder rights, join or found one.

I am concerned that you are taking this very personally and perhaps assuming slights when none existed. I have found very few bullies in this game. The vast majority of players are friendly, helpful and interesting to chat to. In the last 2 years I think there have been 2 players I had issue with, neither seriously, and both I put on ignore. It’s a nice city building game played mostly by adults. Maybe it’s worth thinking about why you think everyone is bullying you and mean to you? Could it be that they aren’t?

Well stated position. Can people acknowledge your support for absolute power for Guild Founders then? I seem to recall reading something that people who are kicked out of guilds have a right to complain to Inno Games Support - not that they will be successful, but it can provide attention on those abusing the position of Guild Founder I suppose.

I doubt there's any reason to address your comments about my mental state as they are clearly beneath you.

I feel like you only skimmed over comment #92.

 

[DeletedUser113125]

Well stated position. Can people acknowledge your support for absolute power for Guild Founders then? I seem to recall reading something that people who are kicked out of guilds have a right to complain to Inno Games Support - not that they will be successful, but it can provide attention on those abusing the position of Guild Founder I suppose.

I doubt there's any reason to address your comments about my mental state as they are clearly beneath you.

It’s not support...it is how the game is set up. Founders have founder rights. How they exercise their rights is up to them. I would hope a good guild founder listens to and respects their guild members.

I was not commenting on your mental health.
As I said before, tone is problematic. Sometimes things come across one way but they were meant in another. You might think someone is making a sarcastic comment, or being mean when they thought they were being funny.

 

[DeletedUser117706]

It’s not support...it is how the game is set up. Founders have founder rights. How they exercise their rights is up to them. I would hope a good guild founder listens to and respects their guild members.

I was not commenting on your mental health.
As I said before, tone is problematic. Sometimes things come across one way but they were meant in another. You might think someone is making a sarcastic comment, or being mean when they thought they were being funny.

. . . but are they "rights" or are they "responsibilities?" And if they are responsibilities, should Inno Games' rules about not discouraging other players be part of that?

 

[Ati2]

I seem to recall reading something that people who are kicked out of guilds have a right to complain to Inno Games Support

You always have a right to complain. You know, Hyde Park, and such. Luckily, I don't recall there being a rule that requires people to remain in the same guild with people they hate, so every leader is free to kick out whoever they feel does not belong there. It can be based on the speed of their progression, their height, their hair color, whatever.

 

[Agent327]

Just asking an honest question, which you apparently saw as an insult??

What honest question?

Topic is about running through the ages and the consequences of that. You railroad it into your own subject, where you can preach your gospel again.