DeletedUser3157
I think the responses came before your stuff meeting and that explains it, I quess he was better keeping me safe than sorry until things get more clear.
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DeletedUser
I have contacted support... hopefully you can do something because I am missing over 100 FP from when you deleted buildings back in January even though I contacted support back then (ticket timestamped 2013-01-16 22:37:52).
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Thanks
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DeletedUser276
just searched yours... for some reason it was auto delegated to the group other... of which I am not a part of. wierd. I will look into it right now and see what I can do 
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Done
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Done
DeletedUser
One of the things I see people asking about is what happens if i give fps to someone on one world and they have given me some on another. Hopefully a few fps given to someone will not be a problem and I would think just get a warning to stop it. If you lose 5fps that were given by mistake it is not a big deal and not a worry. The concern is people who are donating a large amount and sometimes all 24 each day and every day on one one world and getting the same back in equal or almost equal amounts on another world.
DeletedUser276
one or two I dont care. its when it gets to a whole bunch consistently.
DeletedUser2206
Just be careful who you donate to on other worlds. *shrug* If you have a world with a main account. Stick with that account.
I have active accounts on all 8 en servers, two of the 4 U.S. servers, and the zz1 server. I log into each of them several times a day, and am growing. I like the game (can you say ADDICT) and like watching my cities grow and thrive. I do not nor will I ever be a part of this pushing, or any other kind of cheating. What is the point of playing a game, if you feel that you must cheat your way to the top?
I have active accounts on all 8 en servers, two of the 4 U.S. servers, and the zz1 server. I log into each of them several times a day, and am growing. I like the game (can you say ADDICT) and like watching my cities grow and thrive. I do not nor will I ever be a part of this pushing, or any other kind of cheating. What is the point of playing a game, if you feel that you must cheat your way to the top?
DeletedUser
It's not difficult to make a "pushing loop" involving 3 or more players. Clearly, mods should detect such loops, otherwise all these rules will be useless.
From the other hand, a player doesn't have a possibility to look beyond two steps (I can see who donates to my friends/guildies, but not beyond that). It's possible that a player will be involved in a loop even without his or her knowledge. With all due respect, I don't believe that the mods can read our minds and decide with 100% accuracy who is innocent and who is not. The very attitude of their responses in this and (especially) previous threads on this topic ("We will not tell you the rules because you are looking for a way to go around them") shows that they will look at every case with the "presumption of guilt".
So, as a rule-abiding player, I see only one way how I can be sure that I won't wake up one morning without my GBs: Send support ticket every time someone starts to support my GBs or I start donating to someone and ask whether these actions are legal or not.
From the other hand, a player doesn't have a possibility to look beyond two steps (I can see who donates to my friends/guildies, but not beyond that). It's possible that a player will be involved in a loop even without his or her knowledge. With all due respect, I don't believe that the mods can read our minds and decide with 100% accuracy who is innocent and who is not. The very attitude of their responses in this and (especially) previous threads on this topic ("We will not tell you the rules because you are looking for a way to go around them") shows that they will look at every case with the "presumption of guilt".
So, as a rule-abiding player, I see only one way how I can be sure that I won't wake up one morning without my GBs: Send support ticket every time someone starts to support my GBs or I start donating to someone and ask whether these actions are legal or not.
DeletedUser7719
Did I fall down the playground once again? (Of course, I'm not pointing out the only way of being banned, but just one of the many)
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DeletedUser13521
Man I do not envy your position Blacksmith! This whole pushing/FP trading fiasco is just about the messiest thing I have ever seen in an online game .. and I have played a great many in my day. I'd just like to say that yep I was tagged and lost some GB's. Everyone I was trading with thought it was perfectly fine. I was however watching very closely the rather heated discussions between players and moderators on the forum and I had a feeling a storm was brewing! I decided to stop exchanging FP's on the 15th and every one of the people I was collaborating with all sent me messages like "why stop? we aren't doing anything wrong" etc etc. I never did get any sort of in game announcement that I'm aware of though, maybe it lost during login problems or whatnot. Anyways! Just wanted to point out that it seems there was a horrendous amount of confusion on all sides over this matter and all in all Blacksmith you are doing a pretty good job of handling this terrible mess dropped in your lap. Figured you could use some support when all I see are players slamming you guys constantly. As far as the whole push / trading thing goes all i can say is it would be great if the 'Loopholes' were closed, because in the end you know people will find them and put them to use! Have a good one everybody.
DeletedUser
Original Post: I'm active on all worlds. My question: Is it legal to help (Polish/Motivate/Donate Forge Points) to a player on world "A" that helps me on world "A" while helping that same player on world "B" as they help me on World "B"?
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DeletedUser276
If you read my post earlier I actually named 2 players that were using independent accounts to get around what they perceived as the rules for pushing. Mostly they were trying to hide their actions. They were actually the first ones I caught. So its actually easier to find when players use other accounts as intermediaries.
Highly doubtful. I know on each of the worlds I play who I donate to. plus there are hidden things I look for which I cant tell you.
Actually I said the rules outright. I never hid nothing.I dont talk out one side of my mouth.
If you want. But if you dont have proper suspicions then you may lose the ability to file support tickets as it will be perceived as spam. Look at who your donating to. Talk to them. Use common sense.
Thats actually not how I do it. But as I said previously... if I am not 100% certain I leave it well enough alone till either more info comes to light or nothing new comes up.
No the announcement went out to everyone. That was made sure of. The link in it was broke for a short bit but was fixed right away.
Actually I think the confusion came from players talking to each other and that confused some mods which spread. I will try to clear up what caused this. I think I got it figured out.
The rules I am talking about are rule 5 and to an extreme lesser degree rule 8. They were there since day 1. However I never sat down and digested the rules as I probably should have or this action would have been taken back in September when Great Buildings were added. I however did always have the intention of adding a cross world fp exchange rule which is why in that thread I unlocked for pushing I always said that it will change and rules will be updated. I wanted to make sure that info was being warned of before it happened.
Anywho.. Archangel tried to expand in preparation for that update that will close off trades by putting an explanation of what he saw as well as mainly pushing. Which is lower accounts pushing higher accounts. Players saw that and thats all they saw. So my explanations for the rule were missed and everyone went off about low accounts pushing higher accounts.
His explanation was for low account creation to push higher accounts which is more what that future fix was for
and mine was for strictly cross world fp trading.
So I think the problem was we added too much and players and some mods ran off an assumption without actually reading my words.
I dont do loop holes. Players know what to expect. I am not making a line of rules for every instance. If I did we would have a rule book thicker than the encyclopedia. If people used common sense and thought things through without trying to cheat their way there would not be any issues.
DeletedUser
I would say a "normal" player will donate "a lot" in the worlds which are not his main.
DeletedUser276
yah well "normal" players dont have accounts on all the worlds playing all of them at once but keep a main account way higher than the others.
That alone is suspicious behaviour.. though not what I look at.
That alone is suspicious behaviour.. though not what I look at.
DeletedUser
You are judging other players' playstyles. That alone is suspicious behaviour..
I see nothing "abnormal" in starting playing in one world and then, somewhere in EMA, when the game slows down, open accounts in other worlds. Many players do that just to kill time. The main account will be, naturally, way higher and more important than others.
DeletedUser
I have a timeline question that I think has been made potentially "unfair" by the deletion of the thread with the confusing responses by the mods. The deleted thread contains a running conversation about what the new rule meant AFTER February 12th.
In particular a SENIOR MOD defined what it meant to not be breaking the rules. This happened well after February 12th. While the rule may not have been interpreted by the mods as intended by Blacksmith, the devs or any other person players didn't have access to - the ONLY interpretation of the rules the players had during this time was the mods in that thread.
I think that thread was a horrible example of a mix-up and bad communication (not rehashing just saying). It led to an emphatic declaration by Bartimeus about what the rule meant and how it was to be followed. Including language similar to "it's obvious what it means" etc. If the mods were that confused in the first days of the new rule and were handing out bad advice then punishing players for following that advise is really bad form. Various iterations where given (including the "player at EMA, attack 20% of hood daily and uses 1 in 10 FP for tech") for what the rule meant and they were presented AUTHORITATIVELY.
I'm not saying that someone that followed these poorly described "rules" has been punished for actions between February 12 and when the rule was clarified in past day or two. I'm hoping it hasn't. I'm merely saying that removing that thread as something a player can point to in defense might not be fair (and no I'm not referring to myself or anyone I know). I would at least hope someone that said "hey - I tried to do exactly what that thread told me to" would be ok.... Using February 12th as the implementation date for the rule as interpreted by Blacksmith (which is the interpretation that makes the most sense so don't get me wrong) is unfair since Blacksmith was on holiday and the rule was poorly written (as admitted above and other places) and VERY poorly expressed and interpreted by the only authorities available to players at the time.
In particular a SENIOR MOD defined what it meant to not be breaking the rules. This happened well after February 12th. While the rule may not have been interpreted by the mods as intended by Blacksmith, the devs or any other person players didn't have access to - the ONLY interpretation of the rules the players had during this time was the mods in that thread.
I think that thread was a horrible example of a mix-up and bad communication (not rehashing just saying). It led to an emphatic declaration by Bartimeus about what the rule meant and how it was to be followed. Including language similar to "it's obvious what it means" etc. If the mods were that confused in the first days of the new rule and were handing out bad advice then punishing players for following that advise is really bad form. Various iterations where given (including the "player at EMA, attack 20% of hood daily and uses 1 in 10 FP for tech") for what the rule meant and they were presented AUTHORITATIVELY.
I'm not saying that someone that followed these poorly described "rules" has been punished for actions between February 12 and when the rule was clarified in past day or two. I'm hoping it hasn't. I'm merely saying that removing that thread as something a player can point to in defense might not be fair (and no I'm not referring to myself or anyone I know). I would at least hope someone that said "hey - I tried to do exactly what that thread told me to" would be ok.... Using February 12th as the implementation date for the rule as interpreted by Blacksmith (which is the interpretation that makes the most sense so don't get me wrong) is unfair since Blacksmith was on holiday and the rule was poorly written (as admitted above and other places) and VERY poorly expressed and interpreted by the only authorities available to players at the time.
DeletedUser
So here's the rule as I'm understanding it now, tell me if I'm wrong.. You can progress your towns however you want, and use your forge points however you want, you just can't accept any forge points back on another world. No exchanges of any kind should take place, just one sided donations. Even if you just started in the Bronze age, you can go for a GB and not worry, as long as you're not accepting any FP back on one of your other towns. Is that it?
DeletedUser276
ecolitan the rule was clarified by Archangel snail on the 12th. I waited 7 days before action was taken. as not only with this rule clarification was posted but also a notice to bring the whole rules for review for all players.
And Mike... yah thats pretty much it. That covers rule 5.
The push rule that Archangel posted covers more of an angle though. But as of right now I am just enforcing rule 5 myself at this time. Archangels clarifications are
2) Playing on a shared connection
Creating a new account or having a friend create a new account or using secondary accounts to give forge points to push another players great building.
We both are explaining different things. I said this before. This may be why there is confusion. Me and him are both talking about the same thing only slightly different. People are thinking they are the same thing so are confused seeing we are giving different information about the same thing....
Rule 5 was always there..... thats what I am enforcing.
His clarifications are the same but more add ons to the rule.
And Mike... yah thats pretty much it. That covers rule 5.
The push rule that Archangel posted covers more of an angle though. But as of right now I am just enforcing rule 5 myself at this time. Archangels clarifications are
2) Playing on a shared connection
Creating a new account or having a friend create a new account or using secondary accounts to give forge points to push another players great building.
We both are explaining different things. I said this before. This may be why there is confusion. Me and him are both talking about the same thing only slightly different. People are thinking they are the same thing so are confused seeing we are giving different information about the same thing....
Rule 5 was always there..... thats what I am enforcing.
His clarifications are the same but more add ons to the rule.
DeletedUser6936
What about asking your friends (not on the same connection) to create an account and donate every once in a while. Let's say these friends aren't interested in the game, so they never progress and remain at the sub-100 points level. All they do is log in every once in a while and use their Forge Points.
How the current rules are laid, this is not an offense but, just to make sure: is it an offense?
How the current rules are laid, this is not an offense but, just to make sure: is it an offense?
DeletedUser
Yes, this is an offense:
In-Game Rules said:
It is exactly the last bullet point in the examples of "pushing" behaviours.
DeletedUser
According to my understanding of the latest interpretation of the rules by Blacksmith ("your only bad if you gave fp back in another world according to how the rules are set up.", post #10), this is not punishable. According to the previous interpretation of the rules (in deleted thread), this is one of the deadly sins. According to the official text of the rules, you may do this (no shared connection, no trades involving more than one game world).
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