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Inequality in Guild Battlegrounds

Knight of ICE

Well, you guys could have told us you plan to rework GbG into GvG 2.0. It would save a lot of people a lot of time and money they put into developing their city to be able to fight large quantities of battles. I think I understand what you trying to accomplish, just not sure it will have the desired effect.

Nothing has been reworked. It has been optimized to serve the intended purpose.

What is "Guild Battlegrounds" about?

Within each battleground, the participating guilds will fight for victory by holding as many provinces as possible for as long as possible.

https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.37671/
 

Sacahari3l

Private
Nothing has been reworked. It has been optimized to serve the intended purpose.

What is "Guild Battlegrounds" about?

Within each battleground, the participating guilds will fight for victory by holding as many provinces as possible for as long as possible.

https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-battlegrounds.37671/
Cool description, a little vague, but you can hide practically anything under it. Guilds were doing exactly that to secure victory, however, as in most things, it was necessary to find a certain balance.
Each new era brought big buildings that needed more and more forge points so players adapted, as an example I can mention the Space Age Titan, getting new buildings to at least level 50 equals almost half a million forge points.
Players always played so that their guild always won but at the same time, they were also able to get maximum rewards. Either way, it wasn't the players who set the GbG system or the prices for the great buildings, so they only adapted to get the most out of the set system.
Unlike the current system, it was great as players were rewarded for activity, now after reaching their attrition limit which due to the implementation of the 80% limit comes very quickly, all they can do after that is wait for the reset. As a result, they are forced to slow down their development to the level of much less active players.
 

Deleted member 127677

slow down their development to the level of much less active players.
I see this assertion a lot. Just because someone wasn’t interested in clicking 10k fights a season, they were ‘less active’? I was taught early on to snipe for income, and it has consistently yielded me more income than Gbg ever could (or has).

Talking about ‘slowing down‘ the development of your other guildies, how about maybe you might have considered teaching them to do something more than farm Gbg, with the illusion this was ‘progress’.
 

Sacahari3l

Private
I see this assertion a lot. Just because someone wasn’t interested in clicking 10k fights a season, they were ‘less active’? I was taught early on to snipe for income, and it has consistently yielded me more income than Gbg ever could (or has).

Talking about ‘slowing down‘ the development of your other guildies, how about maybe you might have considered teaching them to do something more than farm Gbg, with the illusion this was ‘progress’.
Fighting was yielding forge points, goods, and points. Snipping gives you only forge points so it allowed you to level your great buildings but not so much on the scoreboard. There is also quite a significant downside to snipping as you never know who you might piss off. I noticed you keep mentioning 10k fights, it's supposed to be a lot by your standard? As in mine, it's a warmup. In GbG you could easily do 3k forge points a day, how much do you do with your snipping?
Fighting in GbG was giving visible progress and the more active you were the bigger your progress. It was clearly visible on the scoreboard where people were overtaking player after player so you were motivated to play.
 

Deleted member 127677

10k fights, it's supposed to be a lot by your standard? As in mine, it's a warmup. In GbG you could easily do 3k forge points a day, how much do you do with your snipping?
It is normal for a farmer. Normal fighters do 4-5x their attrition limit. But you already said it’s a warmup for you. And you’re wondering why these changes needed to come in. You also mention that fighting was providing goodies, but you seem to have focused on the scoreboard as well. Most of us learned years ago that the strength of our cities had absolutely nothing to do with those fight numbers. And that is what you are seeing with your guildies who aren’t turning up now, I expect. ‘Progress’ isn’t the same thing as fight score or ranking based on no opposition fights.

On snipes, while I was taking my Arc up, I would snipe and take external 1.9 to the tune of 3-5k fps per day. I still get (or aim for) 1-2k fps a day, depends how much time I have to check in. There is now a complete tidal wave of fps though, my city produces well over 2k also, so it’s less and less of a focus.
 

Sacahari3l

Private
It is normal for a farmer. Normal fighters do 4-5x their attrition limit. But you already said it’s a warmup for you. And you’re wondering why these changes needed to come in. You also mention that fighting was providing goodies, but you seem to have focused on the scoreboard as well. Most of us learned years ago that the strength of our cities had absolutely nothing to do with those fight numbers. And that is what you are seeing with your guildies who aren’t turning up now, I expect. ‘Progress’ isn’t the same thing as fight score or ranking based on no opposition fights.

On snipes, while I was taking my Arc up, I would snipe and take external 1.9 to the tune of 3-5k fps per day. I still get (or aim for) 1-2k fps a day, depends how much time I have to check in. There is now a complete tidal wave of fps though, my city produces well over 2k also, so it’s less and less of a focus.
Somehow I don't understand your need to constantly degrade the efforts of players who logged in 5 times a day and fought for their guild to win and get as many rewards as possible and you call them some kind of "farmers". 5x attrition limit starting from 120 would equal 600 battles per day, even after limiting the attrition limit to 80% it is possible to achieve a higher number (since every sector can be obtained with an 80% reduction). Before the change, most sectors had a 96% reduction so 10,000 battles per season is a small number as only a handful of sectors required 3 or 2 siege camps. I have no idea what you had to do to reach the limit so early, if you planned your map rotation well it was impossible.

The Scoreboard and the number of fights done is a nice and objective measuring metric, as you gain points for your accomplishments so the more points you have the more successful you are. If I were to be nitpicky, the strength of your city is directly proportional to the amount of money invested.
It may not be important for you to measure your progress objectively, but for some of us, the ranking on the results list is important.
There are never enough forge points, so I don't understand what you're talking about as there are a lot of buildings to move forward which requires millions of forge points.
 

Vesiger

Monarch
I honestly don't care how guilds are doing their GbG, all I care about is that our guild can get the fights so players have reason to play as it is what keeps the guild alive
If your guild was focused on 'providing fights' for your players to the tune of thousands of battles a day then I'm afraid you might find that you need to find a different focus to keep it together :(
Innogames have made it pretty clear with these changes that they don't want guilds using this particular exploit any more and are trying to discourage it - I'm sure players will work out ways to profit from the new setup in time...
 

Deleted member 127677

I have no idea what you had to do to reach the limit so early, if you planned your map rotation well it was impossible.
Somehow I don't understand your need to constantly degrade the efforts of players who logged in 5 times a day and fought for their guild to win and get as many rewards as possible and you call them some kind of "farmers"
Because they are farmers. We all logged in and fought for our respective guilds, regarding you comment about ‘planning map rotation’. We didn’t set up to ‘get as many rewards as possible’, or to plan any rotations. Simple as that. Tough if you didn’t see to it that your members were ready for the change, or your or your swap partners’ treasuries or members’ troops can’t take it.
 

Knight of ICE

I noticed you keep mentioning 10k fights, it's supposed to be a lot by your standard? As in mine, it's a warmup.

That is a very bold statement. When I look at the stats and interpret them very much in your favor you come at around 12.000 fights for the period of last season. Even if all those fights were in GBG and not one of those were in GE, GVG or your hood it does not come close to what you want us to believe. What happened? You got injured during your warmup?
 

Sacahari3l

Private
That is a very bold statement. When I look at the stats and interpret them very much in your favor you come at around 12.000 fights for the period of last season. Even if all those fights were in GBG and not one of those were in GE, GVG or your hood it does not come close to what you want us to believe. What happened? You got injured during your warmup?
Last season was boring so my numbers we indeed low. Sectors were open for hours and not taken that's honestly a problem you could address instead of nerfing active players to the ground. Add a few more leagues, and the need to win a certain number of rounds in a row to advance to the next group, cross-server GbG so there is more competition...
GbG's main problem is that a lot of guilds have 1000lp in Diamond League yet they don't have the skill to back it up. In some rounds, we are practically dying of boredom as other guilds need several hours to take one sector or don't bother at all.
This is the problem of the system, which wasn't even touched, seems like all the time was spent in increasing the costs and lowering the rewards:)
 

Knight of ICE

Last season was boring so my numbers we indeed low.

Season before that must have even been more boring cause your numbers were around 10K. I told you numbers don't lie.

I see you complain about others not being competetive and having no skills. Does not look like anybody is good enough to play in your Fantasy League :P
 

Sacahari3l

Private
Season before that must have even been more boring cause your numbers were around 10K. I told you numbers don't lie.

I see you complain about others not being competetive and having no skills. Does not look like anybody is good enough to play in your Fantasy League :P
I know how many fights I did and it was slightly less than 10k. So you think the current ranking system is all good and doesn't need any tweaking cause all guilds in Diamon League 1000 LP have around the same power? As their placement would indicate if you like the numbers so much.
Don't know what you making about the deduction of nobody is good enough to be in some "fantasy league", when I can see live on a server there are huge differences in power within the guilds that are all 1000lv Diamond league which should not happen.
I would expect more insight from the moderator than personal attacks because if you wanted feedback, why do you devalue it like this when you get it?
 

Deleted member 127677

I know how many fights I did and it was slightly less than 10k. So you think the current ranking system is all good and doesn't need any tweaking cause all guilds in Diamon League 1000 LP have around the same power? As their placement would indicate if you like the numbers so much.
Don't know what you making about the deduction of nobody is good enough to be in some "fantasy league", when I can see live on a server there are huge differences in power within the guilds that are all 1000lv Diamond league which should not happen.
I would expect more insight from the moderator than personal attacks because if you wanted feedback, why do you devalue it like this when you get it?
This is the discussion thread, so I would happily label Ice’s comments here part of discussion, much as he and I have not been on the same page on feedback threads. I had not even checked your fight counts these past couple of seasons, but I did check your stats and gain some insight in the discrepancy between your ‘activity’ and e.g. mine over quite some time, and I would take it as vindication of the old style playbook. I repeat my question, what did you put all those fps on if not your guild goods buildings?
 

Sacahari3l

Private
This is the discussion thread, so I would happily label Ice’s comments here part of discussion, much as he and I have not been on the same page on feedback threads. I had not even checked your fight counts these past couple of seasons, but I did check your stats and gain some insight in the discrepancy between your ‘activity’ and e.g. mine over quite some time, and I would take it as vindication of the old style playbook. I repeat my question, what did you put all those fps on if not your guild goods buildings?
I invested quite a few in them, but I guess you could have checked that as well so the question seems a bit redundant.
 

Knight of ICE

I know how many fights I did and it was slightly less than 10k. So you think the current ranking system is all good and doesn't need any tweaking cause all guilds in Diamon League 1000 LP have around the same power?

So you think that exaggerating makes you more trustworthy? You come nowhere close to the number of fights you claim to do, so why should we believe anything else you claim about your guild or your own achievements? You have no problem putting the opinion of others aside, cause they are not "competetive" in your eyes. Now it turns out you are not as competetive as you claim either, so does that not mean you should stay out of this discussion if you follow your own standards?
 

Sacahari3l

Private
So you think that exaggerating makes you more trustworthy? You come nowhere close to the number of fights you claim to do, so why should we believe anything else you claim about your guild or your own achievements? You have no problem putting the opinion of others aside, cause they are not "competetive" in your eyes. Now it turns out you are not as competetive as you claim either, so does that not mean you should stay out of this discussion if you follow your own standards?
So you completely dodged the question, doing like it was never placed, and continued in the personal attacks. Well, there is no need to continue the discussion with you as it is clearly a waste of time:)
But one last note to fill the gaps in your deductions:
Where there is a boring season I don't fight that much but it's because of the reason I described above as it's quite boring to control if the enemy guild needs 2 hours to take a sector of 4 and I never claimed to do over 10k every single season. For many season i far surpassed this mena, for some i was bellow no hard feelings:)
 

Knight of ICE

So you completely dodged the question, doing like it was never placed, and continued in the personal attacks. Well, there is no need to continue the discussion with you as it is clearly a waste of time:)
But one last note to fill the gaps in your deductions:
Where there is a boring season I don't fight that much but it's because of the reason I described above as it's quite boring to control if the enemy guild needs 2 hours to take a sector of 4 and I never claimed to do over 10k every single season. For many season i far surpassed this mena, for some i was bellow no hard feelings:)

I did not dodge the question. I find it totally useless to adress something that has been adressed many times before. It is personal yes, but not an attack. I just react to what you are saying. Sure you did not claim to do 10K every single season, but you did claim that 10K was just a warmup for you. You questioned the 10K standard used, when it is a standard you hardly reach yourself. Now you come up with excuses why you do not reach it all the time. I seriously doubt 10K ever is a warmup for you. Not that it really matters, but why mention it when it only sheds doubt on every other number you mention?
 

Sacahari3l

Private
I did not dodge the question. I find it totally useless to adress something that has been adressed many times before. It is personal yes, but not an attack. I just react to what you are saying. Sure you did not claim to do 10K every single season, but you did claim that 10K was just a warmup for you. You questioned the 10K standard used, when it is a standard you hardly reach yourself. Now you come up with excuses why you do not reach it all the time. I seriously doubt 10K ever is a warmup for you. Not that it really matters, but why mention it when it only sheds doubt on every other number you mention?
It was a warm-up for many seasons I had over the years. During my break times I could have ended with zero. When I end up with only 10k I know I was slacking for couple of days. That's why I am calling 10k a warm-up and not something I should be proud of.
I stand strong behind my numbers and when I say I am far from happy with the latest update I mean it. As instead of a new set of challenges which would push me to play more, fight harder and invest into higher attacking bonuses it doing exactly the opposite.
I don't see the reason to invest into new buildings to be able do 50 battles more or to log dozen times a day cause I am out of attrition after a few sectors.
 

Knight of ICE

It was a warm-up for many seasons I had over the years. During my break times I could have ended with zero. When I end up with only 10k I know I was slacking for couple of days. That's why I am calling 10k a warm-up and not something I should be proud of.
I stand strong behind my numbers and when I say I am far from happy with the latest update I mean it. As instead of a new set of challenges which would push me to play more, fight harder and invest into higher attacking bonuses it doing exactly the opposite.
I don't see the reason to invest into new buildings to be able do 50 battles more or to log dozen times a day cause I am out of attrition after a few sectors.

Battleground started 14 november 2019. There have been 107 seasons since then. You are about to reach 600.000 fights, so let's just use that number. That gives an average of 5607 fights for a season if you did not fight in any other way.

I stand strongly behind my numbers.

That you are not happy with the latest update is rather obvious. Others are happy with it and Inno will look at the bigger picture.
 

Forwandert

Lieutenant-General
You really need glass's I've heard many say their quitting, plenty no longer interested in paying Inno's wages anymore overall the changes where poorly though out not tested properly and cause nothing but problems

Partially correct however the initial 2019 launch of gbg was the part not tested properly and that is causing the problems now.

From the initial launch info

Attrition

In Forge of Empires, we have vastly different players with varying levels of army boosts. Our goal was to reward heavily invested fighters, but to also limit everyone's amount of daily fights. Simply to make everyone's contribution relevant and to make your decisions where to invest your actions strategical!

So the aim from gbg's launch was not as it should be, Mindless tapping for hours does not come under limting amounts. The fixes are putting it back how it was originally planned albeit nearly 4 years too late, hence the players not happy that didnt play the game before due to their fp and pt revenue now being cut or if they did play before they forgot what it was like. Unfortunately it wasn't balanced to how it should have been.
 
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