Blueprints

[DeletedUser1032]

The game is beta. Hint was talking about the BETA beta server,lol.

LOL! Beta of a beta :-)
I think I'll wait until 1.0 is out before investing real money in diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser]

LOL! Beta of a beta :-)

Its just a server were important changes are rolled out first and tested.. http://beta.forgeofempires.com/

 

[DeletedUser1032]

Its just a server were important changes are rolled out first and tested.. http://beta.forgeofempires.com/

So how come they're not listening to the players? Hint mentioned in one of his replies that many of the issues we are complaining about now have been already raised by the beta's BETA community. Yet we seem to have the same problems. I thought that betas were supposed to iron these things out. I'm not doing much programming any longer, but I used to work for software company, so I know how important it is to actually listen to what the customers want... or don't want. Yet we're seeing not only regular players, but also some of the diamond players, complain about some of the recent changes to the game. The GBs was one thing, but have you seen the thread regarding tomorrow's update? Geez, talk about sticking a stick into a hornet's nest.

Second thought... small wonder that my previous employer went out of business. Dude rarely listened to the customers. If we did things his way, our software would still run on DOS :-)

 

[DeletedUser3727]

A member of my guild (who has a lot less points than I do) has his GB up to level 5 now, only a few FPs from level 6.

I on the other hand am still on the 4 BPs for 4 different GBs. Still no more BPs since the day after GBs were released, with over 100 polishes/motivations/plunders a day.

Like I said, disillusioning.

 

[DeletedUser1032]

A member of my guild (who has a lot less points than I do) has his GB up to level 5 now, only a few FPs from level 6.

I on the other hand am still on the 4 BPs for 4 different GBs. Still no more BPs since the day after GBs were released, with over 100 polishes/motivations/plunders a day.

Like I said, disillusioning.

Your only options are A) polish and motivate twelve hours each day, or B) donate forge points towards someone's GB that you want to have in your city. I'm already beyond disillusioned, but might as well play with what I've got available. That's why I'm donating forge points to two GBs at the same time. As long as I manage to stay as one of the top five donors, I get a BP for each level the buildings gain. I should have all nine of them, for both buildings, within the next few days.
But I'm still disillusioned... somewhat ticked off... very angry... about the drop rates... Ahhhh, forget it! Enough said, I think everyone's got the point by now. Moving on to another matter...
...
...
Did someone say we gonna be limited to only twelve trades per player??? That makes me disillusioned... somewhat ticked off... very, very angry!

Okay, I'm better now :-)

 

[DeletedUser276]

hey folks

thought I would explain a few of the things mentioned in here.

This isnt the zz forums. We call them beta because its sounds cooler than calling them zz. Technically all the sites here are in beta run.

How it works for us is the zz forums get things first to test for system crash bugs. Then after they get them we get the updates here to polish them up a little bit for other bigger bugs. Then they are sent out to the other language servers where they are polished and refined some more from feedback.

Figure this would help on confusion between here and the "beta" zz server. If you have questions in regards to that site though its best if you take the questions there on why they do or dont do things as I have no idea as we are technically separate entities.

 

[DeletedUser]

So how come they're not listening to the players? Hint mentioned in one of his replies that many of the issues we are complaining about now have been already raised by the beta's BETA community. Yet we seem to have the same problems. I thought that betas were supposed to iron these things out. I'm not doing much programming any longer, but I used to work for software company, so I know how important it is to actually listen to what the customers want... or don't want. Yet we're seeing not only regular players, but also some of the diamond players, complain about some of the recent changes to the game. The GBs was one thing, but have you seen the thread regarding tomorrow's update? Geez, talk about sticking a stick into a hornet's nest.

Second thought... small wonder that my previous employer went out of business. Dude rarely listened to the customers. If we did things his way, our software would still run on DOS :-)

Don't forget, the "customers" in this case are the diamond buyers. I'd imagine they want more advantages for their money, and at a cheaper cost. Seems like that's exactly what was delivered with great buildings. Where are these people that are buying diamonds then complaining that the stuff they can buy with them is too good? I haven't seen them...

Why doesn't Innogames "do something"? Because it's a handful of people complaining out of thousands, just like it is every time a new feature is added. The game is a work in progress, and the devs have every right to change up the advantages given to diamond users, and/or how much those advantages cost.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

My opinion: Either make them cost more, or limit it to one every 1-3 days

 

[DeletedUser1032]

Where are these people that are buying diamonds then complaining that the stuff they can buy with them is too good? I haven't seen them...

Why doesn't Innogames "do something"? Because it's a handful of people complaining out of thousands, just like it is every time a new feature is added. The game is a work in progress, and the devs have every right to change up the advantages given to diamond users, and/or how much those advantages cost.

Understood, and taken into consideration. And since you've asked... here's one from this very discussion, page 4.

In no way, shape or form is my opinion somehow an indictment against the diamond player. I fully understand what the diamond player means to the continued development of this game we play, insomuch that in part, they help pay the bills. My point is that prior to GB's being released, the gap between the two types of player wasn't so glaringly wide. I also have freely admitted to using the sponsorpay offers to buy production & cultural buildings, so again I have no beef with the concept of diamond players.

I DO however have a problem with giving such a "powerful and unbalancing" tool to the paying playerbase who only need to open their wallet. IMHO, there were few ways to keep that power gap narrow enough between the diamond players and non diamond players with the primary means being the PVP aspect of this game and that has now went away unless I am willing to open my wallet and try and keep up with the Joneses. Echoing the point of the above poster, fighting against an army whose attack/defense is boosted by 50% is going to be bad enough in the early game (effectively moving your opponent up a tier in troop power), but in mid-game to late game it's going to be impossible. For a CA vs CA army matchup, where the attack/defense is already around the 30's, the 50% boost is effectively a 2+ tier increase. To more or less give immediate access to such a powerful tool via RMTs is unbelievably unbalancing.

To me, as a diamond player, I have enough advantages without having something THIS powerful. The only way they could make it easier is to install a "auto win" function for pvp battles (of course @ 10 diamonds a pop lol).

Here's another one, Player645 from Arvahall. Dude was, by far, our world's biggest player, with over half a million points, and a diamond user too. If you're able to somehow check his one-man's guild profile, you'll see his reasons for quitting (I'm not able to copy/paste from that page).

These are just two examples that I've quickly pulled out for ya. I'm also a diamond user, although my diamonds came through sponsorpay. And I've been rather outspoken on this forum about this issue ever since acquiring both of my circuses and realizing that nonpayers will never be able to get those, nor compete, no matter how many hours they put into the game. In my opinion, since most players are nonpayers, all players should be able to achieve the same goals, with only time and effort being the difference between paying and nonpaying players. Diamonds should be there only to speed things up or make them easier, not to kill competition.

To give you an example from my own gameplay... I'm not a regular diamond user, only got them two circuses so far, and a couple of land expansions. Yet I can beat half of my neighbourhood, plus some, while still expanding my military capabilities and being rather new to the military aspect of this game. The challenge, and the motivation, came from one of my plundering neighbours, and I have enjoyed the challenge. Dude's not plundering any more (I actually got some defenses now, which took some time and doing, which made the planning part fun), and in a few days I should be able to kick his butt and repay him in kind. He's got seven plundering notches on me, I want seven plundering notches on him.

Now, I can imagine me spending some diamonds, getting them fancy military GBs, getting my units all overpowered. With enough diamonds, I could probably get that done within a week or two, considering that my guild would help with the GBs leveling up. Say hello to plundering my old neighbour, with my units beefed up to 150% attack, or whatever it is that's possible with maxed out GBs. All with zero effort on my part.
But where is the challenge? No challenge in play, no motivation to play, as everything becomes automatic, expected, and redundant. And no competition in sight, unless there is another diamond player in my neighbourhood. I might as well quit now, otherwise it would become nothing but a clicking game for me. I can click playing minesweeper.

As for those of us who seem to "complain" a lot on this forum about these issues, I think you fail to understand that we do so not because we wish to flap our gums, but because we actually care about the game. Perhaps those silent thousands don't have enough time to get involved in these discussions, or perhaps they just don't care. I do, and I would like to see this game keep at least some semblance of competition. But from my standpoint, if I spend a thousand bucks on diamonds today, the way diamonds are currently used in the game, I've just killed any challenge this game had to offer. What will I be left with? One or two diamond players in my neighbourhood, if I'm lucky? No, thanks.

 

[DeletedUser]

Understood, and taken into consideration. And since you've asked... here's one from this very discussion, page 4.



Here's another one, Player645 from Arvahall. Dude was, by far, our world's biggest player, with over half a million points, and a diamond user too. If you're able to somehow check his one-man's guild profile, you'll see his reasons for quitting (I'm not able to copy/paste from that page).

These are just two examples that I've quickly pulled out for ya. I'm also a diamond user, although my diamonds came through sponsorpay. And I've been rather outspoken on this forum about this issue ever since acquiring both of my circuses and realizing that nonpayers will never be able to get those, nor compete, no matter how many hours they put into the game. In my opinion, since most players are nonpayers, all players should be able to achieve the same goals, with only time and effort being the difference between paying and nonpaying players. Diamonds should be there only to speed things up or make them easier, not to kill competition.

To give you an example from my own gameplay... I'm not a regular diamond user, only got them two circuses so far, and a couple of land expansions. Yet I can beat half of my neighbourhood, plus some, while still expanding my military capabilities and being rather new to the military aspect of this game. The challenge, and the motivation, came from one of my plundering neighbours, and I have enjoyed the challenge. Dude's not plundering any more (I actually got some defenses now, which took some time and doing, which made the planning part fun), and in a few days I should be able to kick his butt and repay him in kind. He's got seven plundering notches on me, I want seven plundering notches on him.

Now, I can imagine me spending some diamonds, getting them fancy military GBs, getting my units all overpowered. With enough diamonds, I could probably get that done within a week or two, considering that my guild would help with the GBs leveling up. Say hello to plundering my old neighbour, with my units beefed up to 150% attack, or whatever it is that's possible with maxed out GBs. All with zero effort on my part.
But where is the challenge? No challenge in play, no motivation to play, as everything becomes automatic, expected, and redundant. And no competition in sight, unless there is another diamond player in my neighbourhood. I might as well quit now, otherwise it would become nothing but a clicking game for me. I can click playing minesweeper.

As for those of us who seem to "complain" a lot on this forum about these issues, I think you fail to understand that we do so not because we wish to flap our gums, but because we actually care about the game. Perhaps those silent thousands don't have enough time to get involved in these discussions, or perhaps they just don't care. I do, and I would like to see this game keep at least some semblance of competition. But from my standpoint, if I spend a thousand bucks on diamonds today, the way diamonds are currently used in the game, I've just killed any challenge this game had to offer. What will I be left with? One or two diamond players in my neighbourhood, if I'm lucky? No, thanks.

Well I skimmed it, and it looks like just the same old complaining. Using diamonds has always killed every single challenge this game has to offer, if you bought enough that is. That's the point, you pay to live the good life while crushing your competition. The thing with a lot of the old diamond content is that most free players will never experience it. Most people will never have any of those buildings in their town...but they will eventually have great buildings. We'll all eventually have great buildings, and the advantage of paying for them will decrease steadily until it's gone.

So the question becomes, how long of a head start should people get for paying money? How do you control the amount of the advantage? Drop rates, that's how. Who should decide how long the advantage lasts? The people running the business imo. It makes sense to stunt the rate of finding the blueprints initially, rather than have the servers flooded with them when the super active players get to doing their thing. Once they're out there, they're out there.

This diamond content is way better than any of the other stuff that's been offered so far in that we will all eventually get some of these buildings in our towns. If someone pays actual money to get a building, and all I do is log in 3 times a day to dump forge points, I think he/she deserves a nice head start. Especially since what they paid for will technically disappear over time. It's a brand new and pretty expansive feature, you can't expect them to just lay it all out there in the first 2 weeks.

Also player645 cites a number of reasons for quitting, sounds like he just burnt out to me. What I meant was, I doubt anyone who's actively buying great buildings is complaining.

 

[DeletedUser276]

actually I checked and Player645 is still playing.

 

[DeletedUser1032]

It makes sense to stunt the rate of finding the blueprints initially, rather than have the servers flooded with them when the super active players get to doing their thing. Once they're out there, they're out there.

LOL, you're right on that. I can just imagine some fifteen year old with nothing better to do, running amok all over his neighbourhood, with five or six maxed out GBs :-)

 

[DeletedUser7798]

Well I skimmed it, and it looks like just the same old complaining.

Well I skimmed it, and it looks like just the same old ignorance from people who do not wish to understand what makes a good game.
You got what you asked for, but you wouldn't admit even if diamond buyers were dropping like flies complaining left and right. It is becoming a known fact that diamond buyers sitting on GB's are bored of having zero competition.

I have already proposed that you all gather up in a neighbourhood and let normal players have competition intact. It is a little late though.

Inno can afford TV adverts in the worlds most expensive country. I don't know where you get the bulk income from, but it's certainly not from selling diamonds and gold.

 

[DeletedUser1032]

Lets be fair, guys. It's one thing for us to get bent out of shape over the game, but lets not put the blame on our mods here. They're here to moderate, and to pass on info regarding the game's development so we can have something to gripe about. They're not doing the programming, nor making any of the company's decisions. I don't think they should be taking flak for that, no matter how abusive we get :-)

 

[DeletedUser17]

I will be closing this thread as we are starting to go way off topic. Please create a new thread if you wish to discuss balancing.

Remember to bring forth your arguments in a constructive manner (not that some of you did not). Thank you

 

[DeletedUser3611]

It's unfair of you to say that seeing as the blueprints are such a new feature,you should allow an update or two to pass before you make your mind up I reckon.

 

[DeletedUser]

As for those of us who seem to "complain" a lot on this forum about these issues, I think you fail to understand that we do so not because we wish to flap our gums, but because we actually care about the game. Perhaps those silent thousands don't have enough time to get involved in these discussions, or perhaps they just don't care. I do, and I would like to see this game keep at least some semblance of competition.

I have been playing Innogames (3 of them) since 2005 and similar games before that. In all these years i have played, i have been a regular member of the forums. I have read thousands and thousands of pages and posts written by hundreds of people about almost every issue you could think of. I have engaged in discussions, spam and debates of all kinds. Furthermore, i have seen it all (almost) when it comes to in-game play.

After a while, you learn to take a backseat and enjoy the deja-vu of what seems first time for many new players. As such, i can show you a few strokes of the bigger picture.

1- You are here because you value the feedback given and information shared in forums.

2- You are here because you love to engage in words exchange and speak (write) your mind. You love a good debate and you like to speak and be heard (nothing wrong with that of course).

3- You are here because you find it enjoyable to vent and blow off some steam (we all do) over anything you find inconvenient or not done according to your liking.

BUT, you did not create an account in this forums and type those high wall of texts out of caring for FoE and it's longevity.
In fact, i will bet you my front teeth that you are a player coming most likely from Grepolis (or Tribal War), in which you must be a forum regular.
In fact, from the way you seem to insist in a discussion and how comfortable you are in discussions, you seem like someone who creates a forum account in any multiplayer online game that you play or have played.
Simply put, you love forums. You can smell the potential of a debate where you can debate, present arguments etc.
You are in this forums for yourself.


The number of the "silent players" is much, much more than thousands. Try "hundreds of thousands" instead. The few hundred forum members here are a drop in the ocean compare to FoE players.

For each of those "hundreds of thousands" there are logs of their activity, logging hours, time spent, buildings built, diamonds bought and a million other statistics which a multibillion dollar company like inno games ask professionals to translate them in market and business decisions.

So, my and your dislike spoken out here in forums is more for you and me to take something off the chest. The game developers have more significant data to test their implementations and updates.

Don't get me wrong, Great ideas and improvements are born in this forums, but you could scream "imbalance" all day long. If the stats show the number of players registering is increasing and if number of players quitting is no different than the usual, natural ratio....... well.

P.S. Like you, i just felt like typing and saying things (nothing to do with the love for the game)

 

[DeletedUser7798]

Instead of making a new topic, let me ask here. Is this thread the best knowledge source for blueprints?
Primary question: Can motivating a friend outside guild and neighbourhood grant BP?
This other question somewhere along the pages. I don't see why it couldn't be answered why jumping guilds and polishing are not possible. Obvious reasons? Yea obviously to prevent abuse. I'm all for that, but it doesn't really give any description where the limits actually are, thus my primary question. If I were to switch guild must I forget blueprints? Or is there a time-frame?

 

[DeletedUser]

Well I skimmed it, and it looks like just the same old ignorance from people who do not wish to understand what makes a good game.
You got what you asked for, but you wouldn't admit even if diamond buyers were dropping like flies complaining left and right. It is becoming a known fact that diamond buyers sitting on GB's are bored of having zero competition.

I have already proposed that you all gather up in a neighbourhood and let normal players have competition intact. It is a little late though.

Inno can afford TV adverts in the worlds most expensive country. I don't know where you get the bulk income from, but it's certainly not from selling diamonds and gold.

First I'd like to point out that your rant is overly hostile and inappropriate, not to mention way off topic.What makes a good game is entirely subjective, and it's pretty arrogant of you to think that you alone understand what it takes. It's not a known fact that diamond buyers are bored with great buildings, nor is it "becoming" one. They've only been out for a couple weeks, the diamond guy in my 'hood just made his 7th GB...I think he's gonna build them all.

As for the rest, I don't really get what you're saying there at all, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[DeletedUser7798]

as if im bothered to argue with you

did not say anything about diamond players being bored of GB's.