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Neighborhood programming is pathetic

DeletedUser100832

it doesn't need to even be something as fundamental as a rewrite of the n-hood code

just make it not possible to plunder someone more than one age below you. There, problem solved.
 

Amy Steele

General
Mithril II said:
Once more we are given a propaganda scam instead of any attempt to fix a pathetic problem. The comment from Amy about "the system is automatic and unfortunately" is the glaring example of a group of developers that, instead of correcting the worst aspect of the game, continue to blather away excuses for how we, the paying players, should work around their refusal to get off their duffs and fix it.
Click to expand...

I just want to correct what seems to be a misapprehension here - I am not a dev, but a mod, who happens to also have the extra responsibility of administrating these forums, hence my title and banner being different from the usual mod ones. As a mod, I have no contact with the devs, no say in game development and coding. As I am also a player I am subject to the same neighbourhood merge system as every other player, and there have been times when I have been in a neighbourhood with players at the top with whom I cannot possibly compete. My advice on timing productions was given from my personal perspective on this issue as a player, as I have found it the most effective way of protecting the majority of my productions (both goods and supplies) from plunder.

Other tactics I have used successfully were among the ones listed by thanatos100 in another thread:

Get stronger members of your guild or friends in your neighbourhood to attack the offenders.
Send friend requests to those attacking you.
Build up a rapport with your plunderers. Don't send aggressive messages, just keep it light hearted and funny if possible. Some will find it harder to plunder people they chat to.
Contact them and come to a deal to set out a particular defence for them that means they get high PvP points but don't damage their troops.

You can read the full list here. It's good advice and I can personally attest that these tactics do work.
 

DeletedUser96867

@ Mithril II Well said but unfortunately wasted like all our other comments because they just don't care.

@ jampots In that case then just remove the options for the 5min, 15min, 1hr, 4hr, and 8hr cycles as what is the point when we can all just run 24hr cycles day after day.
 

DeletedUser

Amy,
Once more you miss the point. Having to work around a poorly written program isn't a solution to the problem. It's like having a flat tire and having someone trot along beside the missing tire to hold it up while the other 3 roll along. It's a broken system and it shouldn't be up to the players to band-aid it to make it work. Not everyone can schedule their time for their harvests to be picked up precisely...including me.
I don't care what defense you put up. When you're going up against troops one, two and three ages above you, you're dead meat. Trying to gain medals through the pvp towers becomes an impossibility when those you attack have guns, and you're using arrows. Harsh language is just as effective.
No offense, Amy or Jampot, but we're kinda fed up listening to mods cover for the developers. We need some answers from them, not you. If they have no intention of fixing it, at least we know it's time to seek better games. We're wanting answers. We know how to work around lousy programming, but it's so bad, that's becoming another attempt at futility.

To prove my point about how bad it is...and use this as it relates to your neighborhood. This is a copy/paste from a support ticket I put in regarding the neighborhood issue. It makes no sense whatsoever, but does fall into the category of political rhetoric....

"I am sorry that you are unhappy with your new neighbourhood and I will try to explain how the neighbourhood merge system works. It is not related to your points but instead to your research tree progress.
The neighbourhood merge system works by splitting neighbourhoods into 'blocks'. These 'blocks' are determined by the largest gaps between players in terms of their research tree progress. It is therefore possible for players to end up in 'blocks' whereby, once placed in the new neighbourhood, create large gaps between some players within that new neighbourhood. Hopefully this explains how this can occur, and future merges will help to level the playing field going forwards."

Hope you had your boots on...they're laying it on thick and stacking it high...
 

DeletedUser96867

lol mithril II that explanation sounds like they are making up the hoods by hand and can't be bothered to try to make the missing pieces fit. Perhaps they should try putting in a loop that repeats until the proper hood conditions are met. After a few hundred thousands permutations which a compute can do in a few seconds i'm sure a solution would be found. It really isn't that difficult of a programming problem to solve all it takes is a little thought and a little effort. Since hood sizes aren't exactly fixed but can fall into a range(sometimes a very large range) it makes finding a solution even easier. Maybe they should hire some high school students for the summer, they'd likely have it figure out by lunch on their first day.
 

DeletedUser

Mithril II said:
No offense, Amy or Jampot, but we're kinda fed up listening to mods cover for the developers. We need some answers from them, not you. If they have no intention of fixing it, at least we know it's time to seek better games. We're wanting answers.
Click to expand...

This is the neighbourhood merge system that is in place at the moment, it is automatic and we can't do anything about it. We also don't know if or when the developers will change it. All we can do is to suggest possible ways to work within the current system - we can't fix the issues for individual players.

This is the case for all aspects of the game; it has been programmed with these particular parameters and until any of them are changed, that is how they work - for better or for worse. There are solutions to some things; whether you like the solutions is another matter, but there are solutions.
 

DeletedUser

So basically, you're saying we're stuck with it until or if the developers decide to fix it. I guess that means it's much more important to have Easter Egg hunts and soccer tournaments based on luck than actually repair a faulted program?
There is no solution to trying to battle against players 3 Ages above you...and THAT is a problem that can only be resolved when someone quits dumping the task of addressing the complaints on the back of well-intentioned mods and actually takes responsibility to solved the problem, not leave it to the players to attempt to work around it.
 

DeletedUser

Mithril II said:
So basically, you're saying we're stuck with it until or if the developers decide to fix it.
Click to expand...

Basically - yes. You weren't interested in hearing work-around solutions, so that is the other side; it's part of the game right now and won't change until it gets changed. I'm sorry it sounds so blunt, but it does boil down to that fact.
 

DeletedUser100832

Hippocratia said:
Basically - yes. You weren't interested in hearing work-around solutions, so that is the other side; it's part of the game right now and won't change until it gets changed. I'm sorry it sounds so blunt, but it does boil down to that fact.
Click to expand...

the problem is that the mods seem generally supportive of this. I think that's what winds people up, you see something blatantly broken, and then people like amy start making pathetic excuses and suggesting solutions that just plain don't work. If you said 'yeah, I agree, it's terrible, let's hope it gets changed asap', then no one would have a problem.

and we heard the 'work-around solutions', it's just we think they don't amount to much
 

DeletedUser

Medribradrion said:
the problem is that the mods seem generally supportive of this. I think that's what winds people up, you see something blatantly broken, and then people like amy start making pathetic excuses and suggesting solutions that just plain don't work. If you said 'yeah, I agree, it's terrible, let's hope it gets changed asap', then no one would have a problem.

and we heard the 'work-around solutions', it's just we think they don't amount to much
Click to expand...

I don't think it's the case that mods are supportive of this - I haven't seen a single post from a moderator that would imply that. Be careful of putting words into peoples mouths. As has been stated MANY times before, we are players too. We are subject to the same game mechanics. I've been in this situation before and I'm still here, playing the game, many months later. It was not and need not be a game ending situation.
 

DeletedUser2989

Mithril II said:
"I am sorry that you are unhappy with your new neighbourhood and I will try to explain how the neighbourhood merge system works. It is not related to your points but instead to your research tree progress.
The neighbourhood merge system works by splitting neighbourhoods into 'blocks'. These 'blocks' are determined by the largest gaps between players in terms of their research tree progress. It is therefore possible for players to end up in 'blocks' whereby, once placed in the new neighbourhood, create large gaps between some players within that new neighbourhood. Hopefully this explains how this can occur, and future merges will help to level the playing field going forwards."
Click to expand...

This sounds more complex than it needs to be... which is probably why it creates such distorted neighburhoods. It sounds like neighbourhoods are built as it goes, almost like (but is most likely more complicated than):
All the players are seperated into blocks of about 1000 (theoretically seperating those with lots of tech from those with none somehow?). Then taking the first "block" it makes 10 neighbourhoods and 1 person is place in each, the 11th is placed in a neighbourhood depending on their tech difference compared to those first 10 (theoretically placed with the one that is least different). The 12th is place the same way. Now these first 12 might have been in PME/ME, by random luck 13th is in IndA. Instead of making a new neighbourhood it places number 13 in the least different one still open (even though it might mean a age difference of 3 or more). Eventually 1 neighbourhood fills up and is "closed" and another one is started which happens to start filling with PE/IndA towns which would have been perfect for number 13 but he has already been placed (better luck next time).

I would have done it this way:
Rank all players according to techs completed. Having "x" points value assigned to each tech so that if some techs are more valuable than others you can be ranked properly. Then split the player base into "blocks" based on their rank scores with no more than "some value difference" ( +/- 10 points or something), you'd end up with many blocks with about 100 people (most of these blocks would be isolated to 1-2 ages), some with about 500 people (those finished the tech tree or near enough) and at least 1 block of 1000 (pretty much all the new players). Then within these blocks randomly group people together in groups of roughly 80 no less than 50.

With this method you'd find the neighbourhoods constructed with people that have roughly researched the same number of techs.
 

DeletedUser653

lady-lexis said:
I don't think it's the case that mods are supportive of this - I haven't seen a single post from a moderator that would imply that....
Click to expand...
But alas there are thousands of posts from players complaining about this and this includes from players at the top of the hood as well as those at the bottom and I have yet to see a single post from a MOD that actually admits that the merging system does not work and that they will try and influence the devs to get it changed.

If all a Mod does is repeat the same message that we need to be better at collecting goods, be friendly etc (accepted - good advise) then it does not seem that any Mod supports :-
a) that the Merge system just does not work,
b) the need for change,
c) that no one actually understands and/or can even post about the logic of how it works.

I take back "any Mod", Byeordie and Remorce can do a honest post and can tells it like it is but "most mods" never admit that theres a problem and never suggest that they will try and get it changed.

sometimes Mods its what you do not say that is more informative than what you do!

Perhaps all mods could join this thread and clearly state that the merging process does not work fairly and that it should be changed to ensure 99.9% of players only have a maximum of 1 age difference to any other player in their hood at the point of merging.

PS you generally do a a good job, many thanks for that, but beware going native!
 

DeletedUser

like some others i was getting plundered most days untill i found advice from others saying time your goods in with ur Real life and mot/pol ur attacker after a certain time send them a nice friendly message and yea it working am now friends with some of them and with the rest the tables have turned now i plunder them :D ,,

At the end of the day this game is all about skill/timing

there is some aspects of FOE i dont like but this dont have anything to do with this subject

its a shame though as the mods on here sound like these on Supreme Commander Forged Alliance very helpful and normal people the Devs/ aka GPNET wont listen to their own mods and the people :D
 

DeletedUser

HRC said:
but "most mods" never admit that theres a problem and never suggest that they will try and get it changed.
Click to expand...

Actually we do not have any more influence than the average player in terms of 'getting things changed'. We can suggest that you propose new ideas or provide feedback on issues and we do try to provide solutions or work-arounds to various aspects of gameplay, but we do not have a direct line to the devs.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be in that position; but it is a far cry from what we do. The forum moderation team is responsible for how the forum runs and for providing what help and assistance we can with questions, discussions, information etc. Outside those boundaries, we are just normal players with a tiny bit more responsibility and the ability to volunteer our time to the community.

To get back on-topic: as far as the neighbourhood merge system goes you can live with it, wait for a better merge, take some measures to mitigate it's effects and/or express your opinions about it. And if anyone can come up with a super-duper fail-proof merge system, there's always the Ideas section.....
 

DeletedUser7719

Also, I thought Tracey did a pretty good job with that Hall of Fame and HA issue we could of had ;)
 

DeletedUser99588

Also, I thought Tracey did a pretty good job with that Hall of Fame and HA issue we could of had
Click to expand...

Very true.

Neither should have happened though so maybe a +1 for mods but -1 for the devs for creating the situations in the first place.
 
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mrbeef

mrbeef

Lieutenant-General
At the bottom of my hood are three BA players.... I'm PME... how the hell the 'system' couldn't find them a better n'hood is beyond me.

'Unfortunate', 'sometimes', and 'automatic' are words I've seen used in relation to the merge system... very poor design and nonchalance by the developers are words I'd use.
 
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Rosletyne

Warrant Officer
Hippocratia said:
Actually we do not have any more influence than the average player in terms of 'getting things changed'. We can suggest that you propose new ideas or provide feedback on issues and we do try to provide solutions or work-arounds to various aspects of gameplay, but we do not have a direct line to the devs.
Click to expand...

Some time ago I learned that in game moderators had no contact with the devs either. Just... what the hell? Does no one have any contact with the developers at all? Have they completely isolated themselves in their ivory tower, oblivious to everything that happens in the community?

How dysfunctional can InnoGames get?
 

DeletedUser6065

mrbeef said:
' . . . 'Unfortunate', 'sometimes', and 'automatic' are words I've seen used in relation to the merge system... very poor design and nonchalance by the developers are words I'd use.'
Click to expand...
I personally would have used other words to describe the situation - but then Gate2 would have to wash my mouth out with soap . . .mk
 
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