LOW Advanced Guide

Discussion in 'Guides' started by pawelp, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Isaiiah

    Isaiiah Private

    Jul 28, 2017
    Thank you for your continued support on this guide. I think I understand the premise of the Arc levelling system, as you can tell I'm new to this GB but levelling as a priority. From your experience, is it hard getting three/four people together and persuading them to donate regularly in the agreed pattern? I sometimes have to chase up 10/20FP per day swap partners where they don't contribute.

    I can imagine it's much easier to maybe have two friends and take it in turns to lock Gold/Silver on Each person? If we have person X Y & Z for example.

    X locks gold on Y and silver on Z
    Y locks gold on Z and silver on X
    Z locks gold on X and silver on Y

    Will this pattern for levelling work? Or am I misunderstanding the graphs?
  2. NewandForgiven

    NewandForgiven Private

    Jun 1, 2013
    This is an excellent guide - I enjoyed reading through it. As you said at the start, it doesn't all perfectly apply for me, because I aim to enjoy myself and do that in different ways, but the information is gold (as is the explanation of where you are coming from in writing it).

    Really minor point, but is it worth mentioning that when trading BPs in, you should avoid trading in two of the same BP for another (two the same gives 1 in odds of getting the one you want, two different ones gives 1 in 7). It's not a massive difference, but could avoid some annoyance/diamonds over period of time.
    Matthewsgm and Bridgeman55 like this.
  3. pawelp

    pawelp Second Lieutenant

    Nov 25, 2012
    I updated Chapter 11 today with Winter '17 event combos, and only left the most relevant other patterns.

    MY FINAL RECOMMENDATION FOR WINTER '17 EVENT: Buildings are small. You will use a lot of diamonds to purchase them. If you are looking for FPs, this is very poor event to get extra buildings as it carries high diamond per fp/day cost. If you are looking for goods/day of the most recent age, this is an excellent event to do it. Also, if you have deep pockets, and you are looking for large amount of attack bonus, this is also an event to do it (see winter village size 12 combo). There are repetitive patterns of 3x2 that give 5 goods+1fps and/or 1x2 that give 3% attack that can be taken advantage of during this event. In long term, I would prefer FPs as a currency, hence I would hold unless u can form one 35 size or one 49 size Winter Village combo (maybe purchase 2-3 missing pieces if needed) which would be a nice trophy matching the FPs/square of terrace farm, but also giving you large amount of goods on top of it. Fps not goods, have been the main currency of this game, and there are no indications that this may change.

    I appreciate all those that point out present and possible errors in my posts. This helps me to produce higher quality product in the end.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
    Bridgeman55 likes this.
  4. Ilela

    Ilela Lieutenant-General

    Aug 31, 2017
    You should add Kraken on FP producing GB, also, black tower produces goods and FP at the same time (this is mentioned because on sets you counted goods as well)
  5. Bridgeman55

    Bridgeman55 Monarch

    Dec 2, 2016
    I'm adding a temporary post for an "Attack heavy" combination with adequate fp production but no goods.

    12% Attack , 6 FP combo
    While Statue of Zeus, Cathedral of Aachen and Castel del Monte offer 1% attack bonus for every two levels (after level 10) ...
    12% attack bonus equates to 24 GB levels (a great boon to any warrior and a great saving in fps).

    6 FP-Att Combo.jpg
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  6. pawelp

    pawelp Second Lieutenant

    Nov 25, 2012
    You will need to count 5 road for this combo in order to make it work. Total size 35.
    4 fps
    2 goods
    12% attack bonus
    0.114 fps/square
    0.080 goods/square
    0.342 attack/square
    Overall, I would recommend against this combo.
    Please compare this to other combinations in chapter 11.
    Bridgeman55 likes this.
  7. Bridgeman55

    Bridgeman55 Monarch

    Dec 2, 2016
    How do you calculate 4 fp/d ... 2 x 1 fp (Sugar Baker's Booth) + 4 x 1 fp (Madame Fortuna's Tent) = 6 fp/d .
    Thanks for seeing the 2 goods from Straw Star Tent ... I didn't notice.
  8. pawelp

    pawelp Second Lieutenant

    Nov 25, 2012
    You are totally right.It should be
    6fps (0.171fps/sq)
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
    Bridgeman55 likes this.
  9. Bridgeman55

    Bridgeman55 Monarch

    Dec 2, 2016
    Posted your 49 size Winter Village on the Event thread.

    9 FP , 28 Goods combo (Special Thanks to pawelp)

  10. Dimondus

    Dimondus Second Lieutenant

    Aug 22, 2016
    Bookmarking this thread for "reading later" :) Thanks for the info.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  11. Dimondus

    Dimondus Second Lieutenant

    Aug 22, 2016
    How exactly getting more FP production buildings will solve my FE, AFE and later eras population problems? You still need to build current era goods buildings and at least 1-2 military buildings. Leveling Habitat to lvl 8 will get better pop/tile ratio than any premium residential building in the game and together with Inno tower there is no need for any other residential buildings (free space).
    Bridgeman55 likes this.
  12. LacLongQuan

    LacLongQuan Corporal

    Feb 13, 2014
    Very intensive guide and nicely done, except you forget to include the very important GB next the The Arc: Chateau Frontenac.
  13. Rhea the Blessed 160

    Rhea the Blessed 160 Private

    Jan 18, 2016
    see GB page:

    GROUP 1: GBs that significantly increase your income and ability to progress early and should be aquired as soon as possible: The Arc, St. Marks, Lighthouse, Chateau, and Royal Albert Hall
  14. LacLongQuan

    LacLongQuan Corporal

    Feb 13, 2014
    Oh, I missed that, that GB could have its own chapter lol
  15. Bridgeman55

    Bridgeman55 Monarch

    Dec 2, 2016
  16. elfish lad

    elfish lad Master Corporal

    Nov 11, 2017
    Wow. Amazing read. More importantly? Amazing effort you put in to this guides’ creation. Thanks.

    And now? I know I suck.


    Oh well. Nothing new there, eh?

  17. oceanbrew

    oceanbrew Chief Warrant Officer

    Sep 12, 2014
    Thanks @pawelp for the enormous concentration of your experience that you have provided here! I always enjoy reading a good analysis of game mechanics, and this is a great library you've put together; I still haven't read everthing, but I'm getting there ;)

    Minor point on FP mining; your 116 size indian palace lacks road connection to the palaces. This is repairable by shunting the left hand pair of towers one square over to fit 2 sqrs of road to both top palaces, and similarly for the bottom pair. The extra 4 sqrs make the arrangement equal size to a rectangular 120 sqr arrangement. This is much easier to build into the rest of your city, but loses a pair of towers (either 2FP/day or 10 goods/day). There is some recoverable internal space, best used for victory towers or watchfire/ritual flame.

    The 108 size indian palace set also only generates 22 FP, but does produce 30 goods, for 0.2037 FP/sqr and 0.2778 goods/sqr.


    (note 120 size includes internal voids; at formation ends, move jungle/bandar in and complete palace roads at a loss of internally recoverable spaces)
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  18. pawelp

    pawelp Second Lieutenant

    Nov 25, 2012
    CHAPTER 19 - Chateau Frontenac

    When we discovered the possibility of Arc being the best GB ever that could supply with an income never seen before, we started to research how could we invest FPs further to propagate this income. The rule of thumb is that average net cost of a FPs GB assuming having an arc with optimistic approach is about 333 FPs/ FP producing level. This is nothing specific but large rounded average of cape, Inno, Hagia, CDM, and others over many initial levels 0-80. That means on average it takes 333 days to pay of the initial investment just simply by running this FP GB. We usually convert it to %, and present it as 0.3% income per day. This is a good benchmark to comparing every other investment in the game. Any investment that gives back 0.3%/day or more is relatively good investment, and anything that gives back less than 0.3%/day is relatively poor investment (that includes sniping too A-ha!), and you should consider just leveling your FPs GBs instead.

    The main question was: Does Chateau exceed 0.3%/day profit investment requirement?

    For simplicity, I will use coins as a measure of ability to repeat quests, and ignore supplies. Supplies can be calculated the same method as shown here. The number of levels to sustain both resources must be met therefore required levels will be ***UNDERESTIMATED.

    Image 1 Explanation:
    Comparison of rewards vs. chance of a reward occurring over ages

    Image 2 Explanation:
    Graphed 90% net costs (see previous chapters for what net cost is)
    Polynomial order 4 is used to estimate future net costs costs where y net level cost and x level
    As a result the overall net cost is ****UNDERESTIMATED, as the total rewards follows linear pattern while the total FPs to level GB is an exponential function (1.025x next level). I have to use the estimate function as the linear pattern for rewards is unknown at this point (at least to me). By plugging X level you can predict Y net cost.

    Image 3 Explanation:
    This estimate will start with a simplification and assumption there is only Unbirthday Party (pay to win quest) but not Fnord (gather coins)
    The "COST COINS 1 QUEST" column represents the cost of coins per 1 quest.
    The "AVERAGE BASE REWARD COINS 1 QUEST" represents how much coins on average is gained form 1 quest
    X = large coins * chance of large coins + small coins * chance of small coins
    In order to sustain repetitive quests the coin profit from 1 quest must be equal with cost of 1 quest, this is represented in "CHATEAU COINS % REQ" and it is necessary Chateau % bonus
    X (shown in %) = coin cost of quest / base coin reward
    The "CHATEAU LEVEL" represents matching level to %
    The "PREDICTED NET COST" is estimated based on previous polynomial function
    The "FPs PER DAY" is estimated by 20sec/quest non-stop regiment 24/7, therefore FP income will be ****OVERESTIMATED as nobody can do quests 24/7 at 20s/quest unless that person is cheating. This is maximum theoretical value.
    The "ROI DAYS" is the numbers of day required to pay off chateau by mined FPs.
    The "ROI" is the return on investment % that was discussed initially.

    Image 4 Explanation:
    This is where correction for recurring coin quests Unbirthday Party (pay to win quest) and Fnord (gather coins) is included. I approach it in this way:
    Cost of Unbirthday quest = Reward from Unbirthday quest with bonus and profit from Fnord quest where Reward/Fnord coin cost is the chance of it completing
    In short
    Unbirthday = Reward + Reward^2/Fnord
    This is quadratic equation that has 2 solutions. We of course use the positive one.
    This assumes all rewards will be used toward reward and ***UNDERESTIMATES necessary chateau level.
    You can also notice ROI is corrected as well as because of more frequent because of Fnord quests there will be higher FP production.

    I will base my conclusion on the corrected results (Image 4).
    The Iron Age profits are extremely high ROI of 9%. However, this assumes 24/7 work so doing 6-8 hours of quests per day for many days will be the average in optimal conditions without cheating. Again, the Fnord corrections assumes that all coins are used up, which brings real ROI probably further down small amount. As the net function follows the levels 10-120, it is well represented. The iron age has the same coin/supply requirements for rewards and quests so supply will not affect ROI here. In the end, in most optimal conditions in IA you are looking at 2-3% (~500FPs/day) ROI. This amount is possibly smaller for an experienced low age Arc who snipes heavily. The latter is much less time consuming and much more fun.

    The overoptimistic AF/OF/VF ROI are 0.17% / 0.02% / WTF with all the problems and further corrections listed above are probably more like 0.03% / 0.004% / OMFGWTF with VF being the worse of all ever. You can hear those that invested in Chateau screaming as their investment got worse by one orders of magnitude from being horrible in OF to terminal and completely hopeless in VF. They will never get their return back.

    But what about goods? Could you sell them for extra FPs? You are unable reach the chateau to repetitive motion in ages where goods become valuable (AF/OF/VF). All other lower goods do not matter as they are produced by GBs in massive quantities, and are abundant on the market and they are usually sold cheap.

    Medals and BPs are trash for an advanced player.

    Due to these estimates, we decided against to invest heavily into Chateau. As 500 FPs/day income with 6-8 hours of quests was not the way to go for an experienced lazy non-cheating player who comes here for an hour or two a day to have fun.

    Final recommendation:
    - Consider building high Chateau if you already have Arc in Iron age and you have excessive amounts of time that you would like to use doing repetitive clicks between your snipes or if you are a cheater and you want to abuse the system with software risking ban. Assuming, you do the Arc and Chateau, that will allow about +1kFP income per day with effort that cannot be sustained for long time.
    - Do not build Chateau beyond lvl102-122 if you are wealthy VF player with years of game play
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018 at 4:18 AM
    DarkUros222 likes this.
  19. Dane thorson

    Dane thorson Brigadier-General

    Aug 7, 2015
    Congratulations on this guide. I have re-read it a number of times and there is much to learn and consider.

    Re-reading the happiness chapter I think you can expand on it a little. In my city my happiness comes mostly from a high level traz and OF roads as well as some special buildings that have happiness as a passive benefit. I have 250% of the happiness I need. I have no decorations or cultural buildings.

    So for fighters and particularly those who chase a high level traz there is a point in the game where you will automatically get the 120% happiness bonus.

    My tips would be:
    • don't build double roads if you can avoid it. (this is implicit in your city design chapter but not directly mentioned in the happiness chapter) Build the minimum double roads necessary for the population, barracks, goods and supplies you need. Single roads take up less space and give much higher happiness allowing you to fit more 'stuff in'
    • build up your traz if you are a fighter - the happiness bonus will reduce/remove the need for cultural buildings and allow room for more rogues etc
    • only add special buildings with a secondary happiness bonus if the building can be justified on its primary bonus alone
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018 at 2:00 PM
  20. shad23

    shad23 Warrant Officer

    Mar 30, 2015
    great work on this wonderfull guide