GvG Importance / Relevance

[DeletedUser99438]

You raise a lot of great points there no doubt, Galladhorn.

– Could GvG work in slightly different way like a more Turn based solution that does not have the Real Time aspect included.

However the real time aspect is what sets GvG apart from the rest, from talking with other GvGers, it is the part that makes the game for GvGers ... so anything that takes from the real time aspect is likely going to be counterproductive. Can I again refer to the 10AM Calculation change (as you can probably tell I was one of those traumatised by this change!) lol ... I think we can learn a great deal from the mistakes of the past... but the 10AM change took away the real time aspect for many players, because 10AM was an unsocialable time on this server that saw many players unable to participate. GvG died during that time and GvGers were greatly unsatisfied.

The big question though is – What would make GvG better, more fun and more accessible to more players?.

While changes that accelerate and add to the game are always welcome, personally I'm happy with GvG as it is for now (aside the bugs). In my opinion, the only major problem is that the bugs make it difficult and frustrating to play. There's really no point in looking to add to/change an aspect of a game until the foundations are patched up and strengthened. You can't create a master piece on a chipped and crinkled canvas, so to speak! When the foundations are strong and working how they should, that's a time to start introducing aspects that can be developed to enhance the GvG experience.

Bearing in mind that some aspects changed in the past, albeit they were necessarily removed/limtied to stop the abuse of other areas in the game, had adverse consequences to the fast paced excitement of GvG. So not all change is positively enhancing either.

 

[Galladhorn]

You raise a lot of great points there no doubt, Galladhorn.




However the real time aspect is what sets GvG apart from the rest, from talking with other GvGers, it is the part that makes the game for GvGers ... so anything that takes from the real time aspect is likely going to be counterproductive. Can I again refer to the 10AM Calculation change (as you can probably tell I was one of those traumatised by this change!) lol ... I think we can learn a great deal from the mistakes of the past... but the 10AM change took away the real time aspect for many players, because 10AM was an unsocialable time on this server that saw many players unable to participate. GvG died during that time and GvGers were greatly unsatisfied.

While changes that accelerate and add to the game are always welcome, personally I'm happy with GvG as it is for now (aside the bugs). In my opinion, the only major problem is that the bugs make it difficult and frustrating to play. There's really no point in looking to add to/change an aspect of a game until the foundations are patched up and strengthened. You can't create a master piece on a chipped and crinkled canvas, so to speak! When the foundations are strong and working how they should, that's a time to start introducing aspects that can be developed to enhance the GvG experience.

Bearing in mind that some aspects changed in the past, albeit they were necessarily removed/limtied to stop the abuse of other areas in the game, had adverse consequences to the fast paced excitement of GvG. So not all change is positively enhancing either.

Yes I understand and having GvG run smoothly as it is would naturally be the preffered option, but considering the frustrations of Server lag and lack of a primary fix over a quite long time (which propperly is called better Servers and Server coverage) the perhaps best gestimated hope right now lies within the HTML5 format over Flash. But I am not a programmer nor a Techie with insight into how HTML5 performs in relation to servers and in comparison to Flash - but perhaps the upcoming Reconstruction mode is a clear hint that more things are possible with HTML5 over Flash and that Inno will have better solutions coming up as they develop further on the HTML5.

The knot that has to be solved is essentially that of the Real Time Play and server peak times – If that does not get fixed properly I am afraid that GvG will not attract more players – and is the main reason I brought up "What if They can´t or are not willing to solve it" What then? - Is there some other ideas that could be brought to the table that would still retain enough pondus to keep the competitive GvG play alive but at the same time bypass The Server Peak time etc. As mentioned even the hassle to get enough active players ready at any planned attack time is even a challenge for many GvG guilds. PvP could also see get a quite different play with Player vs Player combat if Real Time Play was solved – But yes most people reading this thread already know all the many issues and ideas proposed in the aspect. In many ways one could also argue that with better real time play affecting GvG and PvP FoE could become a nearly perfect game platform - So it is certainly something I would like to see happen.

In general many new games arrives these days, many which do not have much new stuff to offer, but they still manage to attract new players – many players simply like "the fast fix bling bling!" I won something ...it was fun and not too challenging (GE is in that direction). This is offcourse both a social-cultural and marketing orientated discussion – but at the end of the day most companies adapt their offers to where there is money to be made, to what the majority of the users seam to like, because the big numbers is what makes the big money.

if you Check InnoGames right now – they are venturing into a new Mobile based game development, very likely because there is a lot of money to be made on that platform and the market is ever growing. That on the positive side of things could bring a lot more captial to InnoGames of which some could be allocated to better servers worldwide – A bit like the SUV´s in the Automotive industry generating heaps of money to continue the more exotic and narrow but belowed enthusiats segments – but yea that is just postivie specualtion on my side.

 

[Agent327]

Unfortunately I do, GE is the biggest bore going, no pressure no skill and no effort

What do you know. Exactly my idea of GvG.

GE to hard for you to complete 4 levels fighting?

As such GvG is not the only time or part of FoE where Inno have gone in a direction to find out it had flaws and creating problems not forseen.
This can both be seen as a good thing, since it means that Inno still got some "Game Development Gutts" trying out new stuff and venture into "Unknown Territory" – On the other hand it can and do create some huge challenges since FoE is a very long term play game – and the longer such things exists the bigger the unsolved problems become.

You give them way to much credit. All they did was try to add Tribal Wars to FoE.

In comparison to e.g GE, GvG has some real challenges – The guilds need to have their fighters and supporters on time to do the GvG battles – That can in itself be a challenge and particular when people can join different servers around the world with different timezones. GE does not require that, each player can play whenever they have the time and still contribute to the Guild effort, thus also gaining individually form the relic wins. This part is a huge difference and I´m guessing a very viable reason why GE has become a sucessful part of the game, while GvG is stalling.

You forget to mention that if you play GE, you can wake up in the morning and nothing has changed.

– Could GvG work in slightly different way like a more Turn based solution that does not have the Real Time aspect included.

Not as long as it can not be played on the app.

 

[DeletedUser]

What do you know. Exactly my idea of GvG.

GE to hard for you to complete 4 levels fighting?

Try reading instead of trying to create arguements

 

[Agent327]

However the real time aspect is what sets GvG apart from the rest, from talking with other GvGers, it is the part that makes the game for GvGers ... so anything that takes from the real time aspect is likely going to be counterproductive. Can I again refer to the 10AM Calculation change (as you can probably tell I was one of those traumatised by this change!) lol ... I think we can learn a great deal from the mistakes of the past... but the 10AM change took away the real time aspect for many players, because 10AM was an unsocialable time on this server that saw many players unable to participate. GvG died during that time and GvGers were greatly unsatisfied.

Unsociable time yes, but it did make GvG run smoother and abuse a lot harder. Strange that was never accepted as a solution.

While changes that accelerate and add to the game are always welcome

Then why not accept the calculation change?

In my opinion, the only major problem is that the bugs make it difficult and frustrating to play.

And yet, a solution to that is fought against like crazy.

Bearing in mind that some aspects changed in the past, albeit they were necessarily removed/limtied to stop the abuse of other areas in the game, had adverse consequences to the fast paced excitement of GvG. So not all change is positively enhancing either.

Fast paced exitement of GvG? It's GvG that killed many parts of the game. The abuse it comes with has killed PvP. It has killed the guild ranking list, again by the abuse it brings about. GvG should be cancelled, so the game can become more fair.[/QUOTE]

 

[Agent327]

Try reading instead of trying to create arguements

How can I argue with someone that thinks one unit with 7 rogues and auto battle is a skill?

 

[DeletedUser]

How can I argue with someone that thinks one unit with 7 rogues and auto battle is a skill?

I am so sorry that I can achieve so much with 1 unit and 7 rogues

 

[DeletedUser99438]

the hassle to get enough active players ready at any planned attack time is even a challenge for many GvG guild

I wouldn't consider this hassle, team building is part of the fun

"What if They can´t or are not willing to solve it" What then?

There is a group of us already in the process of searching for a game with similar features to satisfy our GvG and social appetites. Additionally, if Innogames prove to be incompetent in fixing the GvG issues, then we'll be choosing another gaming company too. We're hoping the situation will not come to this, it is last case scenario.

 

[Agent327]

Aye this can be seen on the All Ages map (AA) in particular and especially since the release of Oceanic Future (OF). AA is a map that demands a high attack bonus and even with a very high attack bonus, on the AA map a player is faced with several defeats per sector. Thus, GvG players are faced with a drive to increase the level of attack they can obtain either through GB levelling or obtaining special buildings. Which oftentimes sees GvGers buy diamonds to buy more of the special buildings in events (as Hossam has expressed already).

BS. With VF troops you can blast through it and you do not need diamonds for special buioldings to get the extra attack bonus. You can create the same with militairy buildings, which come in handy anyhow, and by levelling the GB's needed. No diamonds needed there.

The very diverse nature of the troops on AA creates a need for an excessively high attack bonus, a well leveled Alcatraz and a lot of team work (which means higher number of players, because a few players alone will be crippled within days) if in a guild that wants to compete to any great level there. It's an ever changing environment and players need to keep progressing to keep up in real time. Thus, GvG drives a need for GvGers to progress.... and even non GvGers want to keep up with their GvG guild mates ... thus it drives their progress. Impatience, frustration or a sheer want to participate at the same level as everyone else, can see the buying of diamonds. That's just one aspect of course.

Just more BS. Non GvGers, like app players do not even know what you are talking about. All they want to do is get through 4 levels of GE. When will you start to realize you are a minority and not really an example to other players?

While I'm sure there are many other reasons why people spend diamonds, I personally only ever see members spend on diamonds when they have a need to meet a certain level to participate effectively in GvG and are unable to compete with the rest of us in the guild/outside it.

Could that be cause you are in a guild that is active in GvG?????

I'd like to add, on a personal note, I'm an avid GvGer, it's the only aspect of the game for me, while I respect others find differing ways to enjoy the game outside of GvG .... I see everything in the game as a mere extension of GvG. So in my view, GvG is at the heart of the game while everything else is an aspect that allows me to progress in GvG. The city is set up to allow progress in the game to be competitive on GvG and to grow GBs which are in turn there to assist my progress on GvG. Guild Expedition (while definitely has other purposes for many) for me it only links back to city progress for GvG and GvG power/level for the guild, so they can have more benefits that assist their GvG progress like troop reducement time and fps.

So you are an avid GvG player. To me it sucks big time, screws up the game and should be taken out of it.

In a GvG guild every aspect of the game is utilised and driven to assist GvG Progress. So for the GvGer it's required to progress on many fronts, have bigger cities, have bigger GBs, have specific special buildings, etc etc. GvGers seem to have a lot more reason to progress at a faster pace than non GvGers (but that is just my opinion).

BS again. Are you spending much of these OF and VF goods?

Further, GvGers may actaully spend more diamonds in this game, if we knew it would be worth it. With the game in the state it is and no word on whether or not it will be fixed, why would we spend money on diamonds(even if we want to)? And certainly that is the consensus behind why some stopped buying diamonds at one point.

Something I would say as well if I want it to be my way.

For me it's not a question of the relevance of GvG but rather, what's the relevance of everything else for GvG lol

May I suggest if that is the case you start to play Tribal Wars. It's GvG without everything else and also an Inno Game. You would still be spending your money the right way.

There's a small bit of skill required on the battle field, some of the battles are truly challenging, but aye there's only so much GE one can do before it becomes a monotonous task. GE can never compete with GvG because in reality you're against a computer and the competition between guilds is too passive, there is no direct attack/counter attack. Each week it's the same over and over, and after a while the incentives to play only end up being the same bunch of useless buildings we have way too much of anyway. In my opinion, GE has no stamina to survive longer term, it's of great benefit to progress the younger (not referring to age but game progress here) player… GvG on the otherhand, as Mithrander rightly points out, is ever changing, requires advanced planning and foresight. It also requires direct, heart racing, real time challenges, with real minds behind the opposition and in which there is a risk of loss, which makes winning, when it happens, more fun! It's also missing teamwork and socialisation, while it takes a team to win GE, it doesn't take that team coming together in the same space and time, this particular aspect of GvG plays a major role in adding to the excitement and enjoyment of the game. This is what we would miss, as GvGers, the most.

So in GvG you are not up against a computer?????
When it comes to monotony or prizes there is absolutely no difference between the two. Except ofcourse in GE you can win diamonds.

In GvG there is supposed to be direct attack/counterattack? It must have changed over time. It usually was about taking advantage of your opponent not being online.

GE can be played by all. GvG not. Want to bet what will have more stamina to survive?

GvG ever changing? It's the same thing with the same guilds all along.

Yes, it does take teamwork. Or just one guy going at it when everyone is asleep.

 

[DeletedUser110327]

I once tried to 'get' GvG and spent about 3 months following a top GvG guild. I was there every evening at reset, and although I didn't play as they were all in ages way ahead of me, I watched and chatted and picked up what I could. What surprised me was that after 3 months of playing GvG every night, and going through about a million rogues, the guild had no more territory than it had at the start. It seemed to be a merrygoround of taking and losing sectors, and if you won too many sectors, you abandoned them. I made no sense of it at all and just didn't get it. I suspect that battle points count towards players personal rankings and that GvG is used by many top players simply for battle points as they jostle for position in the leaderboards. Is this correct? Or am I completely off the mark here?

Also, there are no tangible benefits to the average 'guildies' for GvG, nothing they can point at and say, yes, that's mine because of GvG. It's all ethereal stuff that most of them don't understand, like reduced costs for this and reduced times for that, which they don't really care about. I'm of the mind that if forge points from Guild Town Halls increased with GvG territory held it might change things. For example, if a guild all receive 2 forge points for guild level, why not give them another forge point for every 10 sectors held? That would get the guild excited, give them something to point a finger at and say that's mine from GvG, and give them an incentive to learn how to play. It might also put an end to playing GvG purely for battle points.

As it stands, catering to a few players who are only interested in battle points for leaderboard positions means GvG isn't profitable for Inno to spend resources on. I believe increasing forge points from Town Hall for sectors held might just transform GvG into something worthwhile for Inno to develop and spend money on.

Regards

 

[Agent327]

I am so sorry that I can achieve so much with 1 unit and 7 rogues

Don't be. If you are good at it be proud of it. Don't forget top tip the autobattle when you are done.

 

[Agent327]

I once tried to 'get' GvG and spent about 3 months following a top GvG guild. I was there every evening at reset, and although I didn't play as they were all in ages way ahead of me, I watched and chatted and picked up what I could. What surprised me was that after 3 months of playing GvG every night, and going through about a million rogues, the guild had no more territory than it had at the start. It seemed to be a merrygoround of taking and losing sectors, and if you won too many sectors, you abandoned them. I made no sense of it at all and just didn't get it. I suspect that battle points count towards players personal rankings and that GvG is used by many top players simply for battle points as they jostle for position in the leaderboards. Is this correct? Or am I completely off the mark here?

Totally correct and spot on about it being a merrygoround

Also, there are no tangible benefits to the average 'guildies' for GvG, nothing they can point at and say, yes, that's mine because of GvG. It's all ethereal stuff that most of them don't understand, like reduced costs for this and reduced times for that, which they don't really care about. I'm of the mind that if forge points from Guild Town Halls increased with GvG territory held it might change things. For example, if a guild all receive 2 forge points for guild level, why not give them another forge point for every 10 sectors held? That would get the guild excited, give them something to point a finger at and say that's mine from GvG, and give them am incentive to learn how to play. It might also put an end to playing GvG purely for battle points.

GvG does add to the guilds power and with that the guild level, so it does increase the fp's coming from your town hall.

As it stands, catering to a few players who are only interested in battle points for leaderboard positions means GvG isn't profitable for Inno to spend resources on.

Once again, spot on.

I believe increasing forge points from Town Hall for sectors held might just transform GvG into something worthwhile for Inno to develop and spend money on.

Sectors held help you increase fp's from your town hall, but Inno should still ditch it. They do not make money onm it. It only costs them money and it is the biggest source of player abuse.

 

[DeletedUser99438]

What surprised me was that after 3 months of playing GvG every night, and going through about a million rogues, the guild had no more territory than it had at the start. It seemed to be a merrygoround of taking and losing sectors, and if you won too many sectors, you abandoned them. I made no sense of it at all and just didn't get it. I suspect that battle points count towards players personal rankings and that GvG is used by many top players simply for battle points

This sort of GvG strategy generally has nothing to do with personal battle points/leader boards, in fact some of the most active and strongest guilds aren't in any great position on leader boards due to warring in this manner.

What you were seeing was an active war, where enemies come head to head and are not concerned with gathering territories or points but rather their primary goal is to take each other down. Best fun ever Sectors are generally abandoned for strategic purposes, such as reducing the cost of sieging and to advance more cheaply on the enemy guild. From what I can tell, a good number of GvG players do not get to experience this sort of more complex war. Most come from guilds in which it is understood that GvG is about taking loads of sectors and then playing "virtual security guard" in order to safeguard their holdings. Eventually after taking so many sectors, there is little action other than breaking an odd siege or recapturing the lost sector. This sort of game play is very boring for fighters We prefer the fast paced strategic action that dropping wars, as explained above, tend to bring! They have the competitive edge.

I didn't play as they were all in ages way ahead of me,

A good guild can utilise all it's players in such wars, no matter their level or experience!

there are no tangible benefits to the average 'guildies' for GvG, nothing they can point at and say, yes, that's mine because of GvG.

On the contrary, reduced troop recruitment time, cheaper construction of city buildings and FPs in the Town Hall are all direct benefits of GvG that you can call your own.

 

[Agent327]

This sort of GvG strategy generally has nothing to do with personal battle points/leader boards, in fact some of the most active and strongest guilds aren't in any great position on leader boards due to warring in this manner.

Does the same apply to their players????

What you were seeing was an active war, where enemies come head to head and are not concerned with gathering territories or points but rather their primary goal is to take each other down. Best fun ever Sectors are generally abandoned for strategic purposes, such as reducing the cost of sieging and to advance more cheaply on the enemy guild. From what I can tell, a good number of GvG players do not get to experience this sort of more complex war. Most come from guilds in which it is understood that GvG is about taking loads of sectors and then playing "virtual security guard" in order to safeguard their holdings. Eventually after taking so many sectors, there is little action other than breaking an odd siege or recapturing the lost sector. This sort of game play is very boring for fighters We prefer the fast paced strategic action that dropping wars, as explained above, tend to bring! They have the competitive edge.

Don't they have a name for these type of guilds? I have seen many ideas and suggestions that something needs to be done about them, cause they do not play GvG the way it is supposed to be.

 

[DeletedUser110327]

I have an idea for a war game that would keep all the fighters happy. Perhaps GvG just needs to evolve.

 

[DeletedUser99438]

I have an idea for a war game that would keep all the fighters happy. Perhaps GvG just needs to evolve.

You should share it George. Though keeping everyone happy would be a fair feat

 

[DeletedUser110327]

What Inno did here wasn't so much come up with a brand new idea, they took the best of what was around and produced a massive online game which millions could enjoy. Instead of millions of single players sitting at PCs playing Settlers and Civ 2 for example, all of a sudden those millions of players could play together and build their empires. Brilliantly executed too, I must say.

My idea is similar, I've picked the best from a number of games going back decades and have an idea that pulls it all together.

 

[DeletedUser110620]

Hi guys,

This is unrealistic, mainly because as has been pointed out, a large number of players don't even play GvG.

Richard

Let me point out a large number of players play GvG in a passive context such as farming. Maybe they don't experience the bugs, doesn't men the bugs don't exist. Why don't you put forward any helpful comments rather than telling these people what they do isn't helping, as that is obviously admitting the system is broken.

 

[DeletedUser113278]

Also we'd love to hear from some more app players that I've heard would like to play GvG but aren't given the option.

I’ve been on the app for about 6 months now, building up my city, GB’s etc for the sole purpose of playing GVG once I’m strong enough and have a new laptop... Reading all these negative comments about issues with GVG are now making me wonder why I’m bothering

 

[Emberguard]

Let me point out a large number of players play GvG in a passive context such as farming. Maybe they don't experience the bugs, doesn't men the bugs don't exist. Why don't you put forward any helpful comments rather than telling these people what they do isn't helping, as that is obviously admitting the system is broken.

He's not saying people are not helping, he's saying any single aspect of the game cannot have all resources directed towards it entirely at the expense of everything else. Inno is still working on GvG, but they're not going to focus on that and never work on anything else. That'd be like putting every cent you have into a investment and then not having any money left for a house/rent.

So while they are working on GvG, don't be surprised if you see other things being worked on at the same time. That's the biggest complaint that gets expressed whenever a update is given "you added X thing why isn't GvG fixed instead?" and is the point he was replying to in the part you quoted

For one thing companies do tend to have different teams work on specific parts of a project. So while I don't actually know what system Inno uses, it would not surprise me if whoever works on GvG are not the same people working on other concepts in the game. I know in my own job the skillset I have as a waitress does not translate to what the chefs do, and likewise the chefs have no idea how to do what I do. It's also more efficient for multiple tasks to be completed simultaneously then a single order at a time as certain meals take longer then others but have ingrediants that other meals can borrow. So if programming skills is anything like that, it would not be possible for everyone to work on a single project anyway as they'd only be useful in specific parts of the process and need to have another project to work on while others finish the first task.