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Discussion in 'General Community Discussions' started by firestormfury, Sep 20, 2018.
Except as previously stated, it's been done before, under harder circumstances.
Yea, yea, yea, sure it was harder. Oh wait, you just made it harder for yourselves.
Now look who has the shoe on the other foot.
Now who's complaining?
A. I'm not the one that ever said you had a shoe on the wrong foot.
B. I didn't "make it harder on myself" during Carnival. The world didn't exist when Carnival started.
Bridge reward for SirFrancis, who couldn't catch up to his quest even when he took the "smart" decision and went to IA.
Right down to the last minutes, dude........
So, I got curious. I remember the Carnival event very well since I was constantly updating the Wikia page, in regards to the mainstream servers, for that event. It looks like Rugnir was launched on March 8th, while the event itself went as late as the middle of March 13th. Yes, 13th as there was half a day to do a bit extra. So it was a total of 5 days to do 39 quests. Not all quests would be needed to get a fully upgraded bridge btw. But I do seem to recall you saying you finished all quests.
Still, my 70 quests over 11 days, isn't bad. I didn't have the pressure to push it as quickly as possible and even had two days where I couldn't really get on very much at all, maybe managing to get on for a single session during those days. One of the things I liked about doing it in Bronze age was how easy the quests were when they were presented. But that about battles or donating to treasury was a bit silly.
I really wish you hadn't made it about you, and just focused on the discussion surrounding the choices a BA player (not I or you in particular) is faced with. And no matter what the skill level of the player, just consider if it's really so elegant for a long-term game to dish out quests which leaves the player feeling inadequate where they are in the game.
What I find curious was the comments from an announcement stating that they take away PvP access by default for BA and IA players, and the comments were a pretty accurate prediction from the community about future concerns. I really don't have time to go through all 5 pages of comments. Just looking over the first page was enough.
I wasn't making it about me.
I was giving a clear example of how your assertion that "it's just too hard" is provably false, because it's very much doable. Failing to finish, or struggling to finish aren't the fault of the quests being too hard. They're purely the result of poor play. Anything is likely to be difficult, if you're just not very good at it, or if you just make very poor choices in the process.
And the word in question was stated as En15 / Parkog. Which opened on March 5th. Giving 8 days more or less, to finish all 39, with about 15min to spare on the last day. 5 a day, while advancing out of BA and into IA, because some of the quests required being IA or greater to accomplish w/o fighting.
Yea sure, sorry about the confusion. But having to win 5 battles without loosing in between... c'mon think about it. How many times has someone hit the wrong button or done just silly human error things that can cost a battle. It's then not just poor play, it's a human vulnerability. When this is done on the continent map it can quickly escalate the difficulty and costs.
It's wildly clear that a year a go some changes were made to the game with little or no regard to the full impact on the players and the quests. By way of moving PvP to the quest line late in IA.
1) Not enough battles to practice or organise one's self to do 5 battles without loosing, battles on the continent map has hard consequences in the game. Rather than forcing battles there, they do need a choice. If the quest would offer five special battles, like the dailies sometimes offer a battle, then I would have nothing to worry over.
2) The idea of putting PvP in the Tech tree in IA, has just shifted the problem of those getting plundered for the first time, and not knowing what to do about it from BA to EMA. People are getting as far as Colonial age in my Guild and finally asking what they do about getting plundered. The changes to FoE a year a go has only SHIFTED THE PROBLEM. And I'd like to see any evidence that it has improved anything.
3) I do happen to believe that in Bronze Age Attacking and plundering neighbours would have happened. So it just leaves a big hole in the fantasy of the game.
Now keep in mind I presented two ideas there that would seem more appropriate to the game. The criticisms are just that, critical observations, and not to be taken as "oh its all just too hard."
And it used to. My first game I was attacking and plundering as soon as I got spearmen.
That would help more then just BA. Further down the line battles become a lot harder to win without losing. Especially in the neighbourhood.
I think there was once a time the game gave quests asking for research to be done. Someone reminded me of it here in the thread. They said that it changed. I remember preparing myself for forced progression into a new era. Then the forced progression never happened. I was able to actually play the game, and learn things right where I was instead of focusing on the Tech Tree. It's probably the same for those who want to learn something about the game. BA has the units with the shortest training and healing time. Meaning they can practice quite a bit with limited city space. Each time they go up, this get more difficult. I know, I know, some progress to new eras regardless. But to learn manual battles in HMA was pretty bad, as my city was just all military buildings to keep up with the need for units... This would be better with BA units.
You really are full of it. On E you have a city in Industrial Age. You have been playing for 3 years and now you have decided to learn the game by camping in BA????
What happened to
Did you start just to complain?
I agree. I was in beginning of Iron Age and could not even get the first quest done because it required 5 fights and i was not able to go into GE yet and the campaign fights were too hard. I was stuck at that quest for over a week. Eventually i was able to do it in GE but i never really caught up as there were others quests that took a very long time.
Thanks for the reply.
I should probably point out I'm a bit of a mad man. Especially when others, tend to start calling me out on one or another aspect. So I did have some rather creative solutions to doing it in Bronze age. None were original, just creative, like guild hopping and AID-ing along the way combined with recurring quests. Sending Spearmen off to their deaths and making more, (20s training time,) just to defeat X number of units in battle...
As for the 5 Battle without loosing in between, I did that on the continent map, but I tested the strategies first by going through the motions of battle, then ending it before the last unit is slayed... Then when I knew what would work I did the 5 fights.
But none of these things are "normal" ways of playing the game. I don't expect the quests to fit around the way each of us play, they are supposed to be challenges. A challenge should disrupt the way each of us play, and ways I've seen challenges do this include; the need to build more production buildings, the need to build/destroy population bearing buildings to manipulate population, ditto with happiness, and the need to trade just to get goods, and the list could go on...
But that the quests are making players go to such extremes like you had to wait and progress to do GE... And suffer the consequences because the game provided you with a challenge which is more than a disruption to the way you play! Because it was delivered to you at a time when you simply didn't have access battles. It's not your fault, this quest was more than a disruption to the way you play, it asked something of you that you couldn't deliver due to limiting mechanisms built into the game.
The quest you mentioned are intended for players with access to Neighbors City Defense to do battles, access to GE, or access to GvG. The challenge it puts forward gives the player the push to find something to do in the game they might normally not do, thus disruption, interest, and rewarding in the end,
You had access to none of these avenues for battles at the time the quest was presented to you. So your actions are logical, but detrimental. You can't afford to wait a week. This isn't a normal challenge to present to a player of that age, not without providing them with a way to act out the quest through the normal avenues.
There are not enough Bronze Age battles, and even if bronze age units can do some of the the Iron Age Campaign Map, it is just that, a campaign map. It shouldn't really be a resource taped into for doing quests. It has it's own story line with descriptive texts and a plot to follow. It should be enjoyed and not forced on players by quests other than the story quests. By forcing progression through the campaign map by quests other than the main story quests, it becomes a cheap resource. The story value is diminished.
I'm very sure Freela isn't the only one who couldn't complete it, I haven't seen too many BA/IA players with a fully upgraded mill in their cities. I admit, this isn't so abnormal that quest lines don't get completed by all the players. But I did speak to a few who said they just can't do it.
Yes, I did complete it myself, but that was by staying in BA, getting a Zeus through aiding thousands of players for blueprints, building it and using its bonus. This was effective compared to progressing. Especially since I could play the recurring quests to fulfill the requirements of the Event Quests.
In conclusion, these quests are clearly intended for players who have access to battles outside the continent map. But for BA players of any skill and knowledge, the wait for these to become available is too long. Some radical movement through the game can overcome this, but this is sincerely not the intended behavior the quest intends to illicit on a player... It's just abnormal the things I were doing to get it done.
Thanks for your attention. Please don't stay quiet about it, and if possible get a few others in here who had similar experiences...