Borrowing from Treasury

[DeletedUser110117]

In truth there may not be a way to make them, but in my main guild that I'm using as my example we help each other in everyway. I have actually friended several on facebook and we have a thread for real life issues / support so those that care and enjoy friendships would keep that bond true to each other. We also have a celebration thread where we give fps for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas type presents to each other. We have a player of the week in guild expedition that we put 1 or more fps on a GB of their choice just for a good effort that week. Many of us face daily hardships and this game is our reward / relaxation and a way to show what the world needs more of and that is FRIENDSHIP. I see some of you get very irate over the proposal, but isn't that what this forum exist for?

@z78sabjan understands that leaders want to help their guildmates / friends. Those of you that think this makes the game easier and discourage it for your own reasons understand mine. Who doesn't want somethings in life to be easy? I'm 44 and have played games on many systems and many genres and I've "beaten" many of them and "failed" many of them as well, but I play more of what I like than following others opinions. Look at those that use cheat codes or mods or even hack to be better at games than others, are they better; NO they're cheaters. I'll go back to Atari (yes I have all 3 of them 2600,5200, 7800) or a C64 computer anytime and play a game to get my fun even today, but this is what I'm currently enjoying.

 

[joesoap]

In truth there may not be a way to make them, but in my main guild that I'm using as my example we help each other in everyway. I have actually friended several on facebook and we have a thread for real life issues / support so those that care and enjoy friendships would keep that bond true to each other. We also have a celebration thread where we give fps for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas type presents to each other. We have a player of the week in guild expedition that we put 1 or more fps on a GB of their choice just for a good effort that week. Many of us face daily hardships and this game is our reward / relaxation and a way to show what the world needs more of and that is FRIENDSHIP. I see some of you get very irate over the proposal, but isn't that what this forum exist for?

would this have all happened if the guild hadnt been working together to help each other, getting goods from the treasury removes a reason for players to interact & if you ask players what keeps them in the game after 4-5 years you'll often hear that its because of their guild & the friendships they have made

 

[DeletedUser103370]

how do you make players repay the loan?

I answered that in my earlier posts, but here it is again:

First of all, if a leader gives goods from his own pocket for "free", expecting it to be payed back at a later time, there is no guarantee either.

Second, you don't need to "make someone" repay it. If the amount is limited, and the leadership won't be able to hand out more until it's repayed, then it's in your own interest to repay it, if you ever wanna get more.

Third, just like the leaders won't help "anyone" in the guild right now, they wouldn't hand out loans for everyone either without consideration. The only difference is that they could do it from the guild treasury instead of their own pocket, and let's admit the treasury belongs to the guild, filled up by the guild, and essentially the leadership's responsibility how they handle it.

Repaying is simple, if you have a "loan" then when you donate to treasury (the same age goods as your loan was), then it gets deducted from your "loan".

Imagine this:

I'm in bronze age, and I need goods for my Zeus. I ask the leadership to provide me with the goods.
Let's say the Bronze Age limit for the loan is 200 goods (it can be mixed).

Leadership provides me with the 150 bronze age goods needed, and I build Zeus.
From that point there is only 50 left from my loan "budget" (200-150).
That means, they can give only 50 more.
If I pay back 50, then they'll be able to give me a 100.
BUT, until I've repayed the whole amount of Bronze Age goods, they won't be able to lend me any other age goods either. Also that means that you'll probably have to trade for them just like you would now, with the exception that with this you'd get the whole amount first, and

Ultimately that means it's in my own interest to repay it, if I wanna be able to use the "loan" in the future. Which could come handy at events or with other transactions too, not only with GBs.

And the final limitation to prevent abuse, it'd be only available for members for a certain time, for example 3 months.

An extra limitation could be placed, such as you wouldn't be able to leave a guild until it's repayed.
These could be simple options set by the leadership, so they could decide how long you have to be a member to use it, and if you're able to leave the guild or not till it's repayed.

Tracking of these "loans" couldn't be simpler either.
The "members" tab in the guild UI could show the amount any member owes (with date of the loan in the tooltip). Plus a button to send goods.

Besides that an extra privilege added (ie. handing out loans), so the leader can set who can do it in the guild.

 

[DeletedUser96901]

-1

it is the fault of players if they donate and the goods are not needed in the treasury but from other players
and for goods donated from GBs: they are not meant to be given to players for their use, or else players would get them and they wouldn't go directly to the treasury

btw:
if you take out goods that would reduce the ranking points of that player
or else you would create a ranking point abuse system: take out, donate back, take out, donate back, ...

Right now it works like this: you want to build a GB, you start trading for weeks, sometimes even for months till you get the necessary stuff.

you must be in a terrible guild

in mine it works like:
I need goods for a GB. soon later I have them
and soon is minutes or hours. but not days

 

[DeletedUser103370]

-1

it is the fault of players if they donate and the goods are not needed in the treasury but from other players
and for goods donated from GBs: they are not meant to be given to players for their use, or else players would get them and they wouldn't go directly to the treasury

With the current rules, it's explicitly up to the leadership what they're spending the guild treasury, it doesn't "meant" for anything particular. That is why you have ranking in the guild, so that only the members with the right privileges can do this or that.
And because this would only be a loan, the goods would go to the treasury just as before.

btw:
if you take out goods that would reduce the ranking points of that player
or else you would create a ranking point abuse system: take out, donate back, take out, donate back, ...

You're right, but as you said it yourself, taking out goods could reduce the points, then donating back would equalize it.
It's sorted. (in fact, it's an extra reason to pay it back)

you must be in a terrible guild

in mine it works like:
I need goods for a GB. soon later I have them
and soon is minutes or hours. but not days

If it was so terrible, I wouldn't be in it for more than 3 years
I had my traz built 3 ages earlier (let me add that I didn't even had to pay the goods back), and I get help with pretty much anything I ask for.
The only difference is that with a simple feature like this, the leadership could use the guild's OWN resources directly for support, instead of doing it from their own pockets, through tedious trades and agreements.

 

[joesoap]

I had my traz built 3 ages earlier

so if a guild lends a player goods for a higher age gb & the player has to pay them back before they leave the guild then thats a dreadful scenario...1st it could take months or years for the player to reach that age to even be in a situation where they can start repaying them & 2nd if a guild has any chance of getting the goods back they have to keep that player in the guild
maybe their new guild has to repay the goods to the previous guild within 24hours of them joining otherwise the game kicks them out of the new guild, this way players can still move guilds but cant avoid repaying their debts

 

[DeletedUser103370]

so if a guild lends a player goods for a higher age gb & the player has to pay them back before they leave the guild then thats a dreadful scenario...1st it could take months or years for the player to reach that age to even be in a situation where they can start repaying them & 2nd if a guild has any chance of getting the goods back they have to keep that player in the guild
maybe their new guild has to repay the goods to the previous guild within 24hours of them joining otherwise the game kicks them out of the new guild, this way players can still move guilds but cant avoid repaying their debts

I said it could be an optional restriction, and could be set by the leadership.
Secondly, even if the player can't leave, the leaders can still kick him out.
Thirdly, it's obvious that if you get FE goods in stone age, then probably it will take a very long time to give it back, that has to be considered by the leadership. It's no different than if I'm in Bronze, and ask my leaders to trade me FE goods for a GB and they agree. They'll probably won't see that back soon, if ever
There is a risk in giving your members (as a leader, or guild-mate) goods in trades to help them out, perhaps they'll never repay it, perhaps they'll leave the guild and you just threw it out on the window. The same goes here, there is a risk to lend goods from your treasury, the leaders must assess these and decide if they go through or not.

New guild repayment is not a bad idea, but I'm afraid that it would just overcomplicate the whole process, if there is any chance to see a feature like this implemented, I think we should keep it nice and simple. (perhaps, once it's in place, we can start moaning to make it like this or that, shush )

 

[joesoap]

i think it something like this was introduced then as a leader/founder i would let the guild decide if a player got the goods, i would create a new poll in the forum & let the players vote on each individual case as the goods belong as much to them as me but i do hope we never see this ingame

 

[DeletedUser103370]

i think it something like this was introduced then as a leader/founder i would let the guild decide if a player got the goods, i would create a new poll in the forum & let the players vote on each individual case as the goods belong as much to them as me but i do hope we never see this ingame

Well, that would be up to you as a leader, more than that, it'd be up to you if you support your guild from the treasury or not at all!

I think guilds were created to get people to cooperate in smaller groups, otherwise it would really be a PVE game.
To give incentive to people to join these guilds and "use them", certain bonuses were introduced, so essentially it's "worth it" to be in a guild.
You get battle bonuses, increased unit-healing/recruiting, free extra FPs daily, and a bunch of useful stuff.
A feature like this wouldn't be so different, even less, since it would use the guild's own resources, plus it wouldn't even be a free stuff given, it's just kind of a "borrowing".
More importantly it would further increase the importance of guilds (and essentially cooperation in a guild, since if you just join up and do nothing, it's unlikely that you'd get it), and as an added bonus it'd give the guild leaders more freedom to distribute their resources.

But I'm not trying to convince you guys it's good, that's just my 2 cents, I only try to convince you that it makes sense.

 

[DeletedUser110117]

I wonder if anyone even notices the amount of ranking points they go up when donating to the treasury. I have done over 1500 at a time a few times and gone up what 2 places each time, wow big deal. I got the 3 swords decoration from when they redid the rankings in my early days of eras it did way more than any donations have. I used a reno kit to bring it up when I hit colonial and went up around 30 places. I would like to see it now in postmodern, but I'd rather use what I have instead of dwell on my ranking which in Brisgard is right at #2000 currently. That being said #1 Earl of Bronze has plenty to show for his efforts, but I'm still in the 20% of top players in that world. I don't care what I rank, but where I rank with my guildmates / team.

 

[DeletedUser111152]

hmm... I am a little late to this, and have glossed over most of it...
Rather than repayment...
If this was to be, introduced, how about a little extra addition to it...
A Guild tax, something that automatically deducts a percentage of the goods created by it members that then goes into the guild bank, that is then freely available for the redistribution, as the guild leader sees fit?

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Its a little bit unlogic, that a Guild has tied arms what they do with they Guild Treasury and its unrealistic, right? But this is hard to change.

Only the Guild founders can have a privilege to put their hands in Treasury, like in real life, but with real restictions, because then again not be fair, that a real powerful guild will have a bigger advantage as it is have right now, to build things a 10 era ahead. Ok this can do it right now but not so easy.

If someone put together the whole picture how will this work, then we can vote, because i think that inno not do this

 

[DeletedUser96901]

Only the Guild founders can have a privilege to put their hands in Treasury, like in real life

lol nice joke
let's take the real life
the president of the USA can take money which is for the military and then give it to persons of his staff / family / ... and they can do what they want with it ?



btw what will happen if
- a player who hasn't paid his dues want to leave the guild ?
- the guild should be dissolved but still not everything is paid back
both should be forbidden. or else it wouldn't be borrowing but stealing

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

lol nice joke
let's take the real life
the president of the USA can take money which is for the military and then give it to persons of his staff / family / ... and they can do what they want with it ?

Exactly in USA the president can do almost anything. Only he can nuke someone and so one. In other countrys (like in EU and so on) the president is only symbolic function, more or less.

btw what will happen if
- a player who hasn't paid his dues want to leave the guild ?
- the guild should be dissolved but still not everything is paid back
both should be forbidden. or else it wouldn't be borrowing but stealing

I think, that this borrowing system is to complicated and unnecessary. With your progress you get the right goods, and that in real powerful guilds you can build GB-s 10 era earlier is a little bit unfair but ok, thats the game. I am to want all GB-s ahead my era, but cannot in my Guild and i know how long you must collect all that goods, and not want unfair trade.

If this borrowing system will help the weakest guilds then yes, do it, but cannot, because stronger a Guild more goods have.

This is like in RL. More $ you have, more you get because the interest....

 

[DeletedUser110195]

Exactly in USA the president can do almost anything. Only he can nuke someone and so one. In other countrys (like in EU and so on) the president is only symbolic function, more or less.

This is entirely wrong...and people say we Americans get our ideas of other countries from movies, the ideas of what power our president has in this comment are pure fiction.

That said, guilds setting a policy governing the loaning of goods, involving certain barriers to ensure only those the leadership can be sure will pay back these loans and not "take the money and run" would be the way to go, rather than some complex coding to force repayment, though not being able to leave the guild, research techs or build other great buildings until the loan is paid back would be one way to do it. Preventing a player who receives a loan like this from doing anything that costs goods to do, apart from donate to the guild treasury, would get the job done.

Perhaps also make Observatory, Atomium and Arc collections automatic, enabling guilds to choose to limit loans of goods to building those, so they would be assured to get value for cost, whether the player ever repays their debt, they would get a constant stream of goods to the treasury, though this would necessitate the removal of a required road connection, so they couldn't just disconnect out of spite.

And finally....the idea that this would make goods buildings and GBs obsolete is pure, unadulterated nonsense. The treasury would only have the goods needed to do this IF people had goods buildings and GBs and donated regularly. Were I a guild founder I wouldn't even consider giving such a loan to someone who DIDN'T have goods production.

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

If it a fiction or not, you can read it there and then comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_President_of_the_United_States

The loan privilege can be simply control. Who has the Trusted rights, can take it.

But once again, i think that this "loan" thing are unnecessary.

Ps.: If you watch the old movies, you can see how many things are actually happening in the future, so some movies are a nice channel, to get used to something that someone want. Like wars...nobody wants it, but in movies are so nice filmed and so beautiful....

 

[DeletedUser111626]

Could we have a feature for leaders of a guild to withdraw up to 25% of goods from the treasury once a month to help other members with goods to help them grow? If not all goods than maybe limit it to 10 types a month. These withdrawals would be for helping get Great Buildings and tech tree things done. When the neighborhoods changed it made us be balanced out and now it is hard to have more people to trade up / down with to help build your stocks. I know in my guild we try and help each other, but if we had the old way neighbors were willing to take many trades to benefit them. I don't mind balancing goods to help a guildmate grow with me and it would keep some guild hoppers from doing so all the time.

I had put forward a similar idea myself recently I like your idea, I feel guild masters should have a proper role to forward development from within guild, surely on many levels a guild works better if the guild master who is usually a seasoned experienced player can actually have a role and actually help players . I like and agree with your views very similar to my general idea