Borrowing from Treasury

[DeletedUser110117]

Could we have a feature for leaders of a guild to withdraw up to 25% of goods from the treasury once a month to help other members with goods to help them grow? If not all goods than maybe limit it to 10 types a month. These withdrawals would be for helping get Great Buildings and tech tree things done. When the neighborhoods changed it made us be balanced out and now it is hard to have more people to trade up / down with to help build your stocks. I know in my guild we try and help each other, but if we had the old way neighbors were willing to take many trades to benefit them. I don't mind balancing goods to help a guildmate grow with me and it would keep some guild hoppers from doing so all the time.

 

[DeletedUser110195]

As much as I would like this, because I know guilds would certainly draw their excess to help people build things like the Arc, which would feed more goods back into the treasury....I'm going to bet this falls under 'making the game easier' and thus will be banished to Do-Not-Suggest.

 

[Prinza the Hunter]

-1

"Borrowing!" You'd be talking of a necessarily complex method to ensure payback, though it could not be certain.

 

[DeletedUser110195]

Well, helping a guildy build an Obs/Atom/Arc would be investing in a players city and repayment would be automatic, since the goods generated go directly into the treasury. The Atomium gives happiness, the Arc gives better contribution rewards, the Observatory gives nothing to the player, just eats 9 tiles of their city, it is the purest form of sacrifice for ones guild. I could absolutely see guilds taking from their treasury to help build these things if they can afford to.

 

[DeletedUser103370]

Instead of borrowing, I'd make a separate privilege in the guild, and the ones with it could simply give you a certain amount. Then that would be registered against your account (eg. 200 stones)
After that when you donate to the treasury t would be deducted from this amount, and they'd be unable to give you more until you've repaid it.
The amount they can send you would be capped, depending on the age of goods.

 

[Prinza the Hunter]

Instead of borrowing, I'd make a separate privilege in the guild, and the ones with it could simply give you a certain amount. Then that would be registered against your account (eg. 200 stones)
After that when you donate to the treasury t would be deducted from this amount, and they'd be unable to give you more until you've repaid it.
The amount they can send you would be capped, depending on the age of goods.

And if they leave the Guild? Or simply stopped playing? Guild members don't donate goods just so leaders can waste them.

 

[DeletedUser103370]

And if they leave the Guild? Or simply stopped playing? Guild members don't donate goods just so leaders can waste them.

Well, that's a risk that the leadership must take.
There could be some restrictions put in place to reduce them though, for example you could only use it if someone is a member for a certain time.
I wouldn't overcomplicate it though (with things like some kind of punishment for not paying, or setting a fixed payment date etc.), it is simple after all. The leaders probably know who they'd support or not.

 

[Prinza the Hunter]

Sorry but the whole thing is way too open for abuse. I renain convinced that this isn't a good idea, unless guilds go through other radical changes.

 

[DeletedUser110195]

I don't know what abuse it would be open to. If a leader chooses to give goods to someone they haven't established as trustworthy and going to stay in the guild after whatever is built, that's their own fault. This would also add some use for goods which a guild has ridiculous amounts of excess of, in addition to giving meaning to the observatory, atomium and to a lesser degree, the Arc, for people going it solo, and before you say it, no, the minor advantage of being able to siphon goods from the treasury, in effect, making the three earlier mentioned personal goods GBs and not guild goods GBs is vastly outweighed by the loss of potentially 79 extra sources of goods, all free of charge to trade with.

 

[DeletedUser103370]

I don't know what abuse it would be open to. If a leader chooses to give goods to someone they haven't established as trustworthy and going to stay in the guild after whatever is built, that's their own fault. This would also add some use for goods which a guild has ridiculous amounts of excess of, in addition to giving meaning to the observatory, atomium and to a lesser degree, the Arc, for people going it solo, and before you say it, no, the minor advantage of being able to siphon goods from the treasury, in effect, making the three earlier mentioned personal goods GBs and not guild goods GBs is vastly outweighed by the loss of potentially 79 extra sources of goods, all free of charge to trade with.

I agree, this would be a good way for a guild to be even more supportive, and would probably raise the importance of guilds even further (if we think about it, this would mean that a guild could basically decide to directly support of building GBs, completing tasks etc.)
Obviously they would only do that for trustworthy members, which is not really different of what we do now.
For example in my guild we support of raising Traz, and of course all guild related buildings, with both FPs and goods. Now instead of trading tirelessly, leaders could simply send the needed materials to whom they decide.

And if only the leader (and people with the privilege given by the leader) could use the feature, then I don't see any more abuse risk than there it is now.

Oh and of course I'd limit the amount you can give, by age. By that I mean that you couldn't just empty the treasury and give everything to someone. Ie. stone age goods you could give let's say 1000 all together (just an example).
Another restriction could be if you could only give goods from one age at a time, and could only give any more if the before-mentioned is payed back. (though you tell me if that's a good idea)

 

[DeletedUser110195]

Another restriction could be if you could only give goods from one age at a time, and could only give any more if the before-mentioned is payed back.

This would nullify its usefulness to get GBs built. If you can't draw enough to get the Arc built, then the purpose of this is defeated, unless you set the limit at 1875 goods per whatever, and an unlimited number of specific goods up to that 1875 limit...though I think such a limit should be set at what it costs to build an oceanic future GB. That is how I would choose to implement limits if there had be a limit before it was paid back. A daily limit would be better with no repayment requirement automatically imposed..though the guild leaders themselves could choose to implement one.

Another way of doing this would be a new feature: Treasury loans. You apply to receive a certain amount of goods from your guild's treasury, doing so you cannot voluntarily leave your guild until that debt is repaid. All loans would have to be approved by guild leaders, same way as applications to join are.

 

[joesoap]

a concern i have is that a guild might lend these goods for players to build gbs, what happens if every1 wants the same gb & the treasury starts to get low on those goods, leaders will then have to start saying no to players & this could lead to resentment that 1 got & another didnt, another issue that leaders/founders will have to deal with is making sure that there are always enough goods left for GE & may have players ask why they arent enough goods to open every level but enough to lend players
personally as a leader/founder i would say no to lending treasury goods

 

[DeletedUser12400]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o5JqqJB.png[/IMG] ​

Retrieving goods from the guild treasury has not been implemented to avoid people "pushing" goods to one player or someone "stealing" all the goods also the last changes to the ranking system makes this prone to abuse. Taking goods from the treasury would require a reduction in points similar to the increase from donations ect. I'm giving -1 to this idea, too many ways to abuse it.

http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/new-ranking.30960/
http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/new-ranking-calculation-details.31749/

 

[DeletedUser110195]

a concern i have is that a guild might lend these goods for players to build gbs, what happens if every1 wants the same gb & the treasury starts to get low on those goods, leaders will then have to start saying no to players & this could lead to resentment that 1 got & another didnt, another issue that leaders/founders will have to deal with is making sure that there are always enough goods left for GE & may have players ask why they arent enough goods to open every level but enough to lend players
personally as a leader/founder i would say no to lending treasury goods

The early bird gets the worm. If you asked/applied too late, then you have to wait until there's enough excess that leaders would be willing to give you what you need. You can't please everyone, and people should realize if the goods aren't there, they just need to be quicker withi their request when there is plenty of what they need.

Retrieving goods from the guild treasury is not implemented to avoid people "pushing" goods to one player or someone "stealing" all the goods also the last changes to the ranking system makes this prone to abuse. Taking goods from the treasury would require a reduction in points similar to the increase from donations ect. I'm saying -1 to this idea, too many ways to abuse it.

Ways can be found to prevent the abuse...a player has to apply for a loan of goods, and cannot do so again for a period of time say...a month or two...to keep these distributions of goods to people who need them for a building, perhaps devise a way of making the goods never actually leave the treasury, but directly to build something....add a button on the GB requirements next to construct such as [construct with treasury goods] which could only be done IF the guild member has approval, and only once every so many months to prevent one player getting the entire treasury to themselves...it could only be done if they have the entire blueprint and perhaps, if possible, only add it to the Observatory, Atomium and Arc, which provide goods back to the treasury.

 

[DeletedUser103370]

This would nullify its usefulness to get GBs built. If you can't draw enough to get the Arc built, then the purpose of this is defeated, unless you set the limit at 1875 goods per whatever, and an unlimited number of specific goods up to that 1875 limit...though I think such a limit should be set at what it costs to build an oceanic future GB. That is how I would choose to implement limits if there had be a limit before it was paid back. A daily limit would be better with no repayment requirement automatically imposed..though the guild leaders themselves could choose to implement one.

Another way of doing this would be a new feature: Treasury loans. You apply to receive a certain amount of goods from your guild's treasury, doing so you cannot voluntarily leave your guild until that debt is repaid. All loans would have to be approved by guild leaders, same way as applications to join are.

That's why I said the limit should be based on the age. So in Future era you'd be able to send more than stone, the cap could be somewhere around the GBs of that era!

 

[Prinza the Hunter]

I don't know what abuse it would be open to.

Well, let's start with the opportunity of someone setting up a guild with a couple of friends; they get a bunch of other people to join up and put goods into the guild, which they then share among themselves before leaving the guild or simply disbanding it.

Most people do not know a guild leader before joining a guild. They are expected to take a part in the guild as soon as they join. Relying on trust can not prevent abuse.

 

[DeletedUser12400]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o5JqqJB.png[/IMG] ​

The way the idea currently is presented it gives absolute power to guild management. They don't need goods buildings and extra goods to produce goods; They can easily produce special goods such as promethium and orichalcum; They can exchange those goods for forge points ect. This idea simply kills purpose of the market; goods building; great building ect. In my view this idea makes the game easier.

 

[joesoap]

The early bird gets the worm. If you asked/applied too late, then you have to wait until there's enough excess that leaders would be willing to give you what you need. You can't please everyone, and people should realize if the goods aren't there, they just need to be quicker withi their request when there is plenty of what they need.

as a leader/founder you would have to try to please every1, i wouldn't want to be in a situation where it looked like we were picking favourites & the situation could easily arise where a player asks for goods & there aren't enough, a month later stocks could have built again & we've forgotten who asked & we give then to a different player
i think there are already ways for players to get every good they need for any age gb but it will cost them in fps or lower age goods so i dont feel that its necessary to spoil players by giving them free goods from the treasury when theres no way to ensure that they pay them back especially when its other players that have donated them for guild use & not individual player use

 

[DeletedUser103370]

Well, let's start with the opportunity of someone setting up a guild with a couple of friends; they get a bunch of other people to join up and put goods into the guild, which they then share among themselves before leaving the guild or simply disbanding it.

Most people do not know a guild leader before joining a guild. They are expected to take a part in the guild as soon as they join. Relying on trust can not prevent abuse.

Yeah but with a time limit this can be mostly circumvented (for example you need to be member for 3 months).

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/o5JqqJB.png[/IMG] ​

The way the idea currently is presented it gives absolute power to guild management. They don't need goods buildings and extra goods to produce goods; They can easily produce special goods such as promethium and orichalcum; They can exchange those goods for forge points ect. This idea simply kills purpose of the market; goods building; great building ect. In my view this idea makes the game easier.

Yeah but to do that, the stuff must get into the treasury the first place. If you start with a fresh guild, it's empty. So first of all the guild must fill it up, which heavily depends on donations from the members, plus guild buildings.

Also, if there is a cap of how much you can send, and you can only send 1 age goods until it's payed back, you'd still need trading just as much before.

And most importantly, treasury goods are needed for GVG too (hopefully they will be used for even more things, ie. guild GBs or stuff in the future), which means the leaders won't just "hand it out" for everyone, only in special cases.

But the most important thing is I think, that you have to pay it back, until you do, you won't get any more.
In other words this wouldn't be a "handout" at all, more like an interest free "loan".

 

[DeletedUser110195]

as a leader/founder you would have to try to please every1, i wouldn't want to be in a situation where it looked like we were picking favourites

That situation can easily be rectified by setting a policy in which if you requested goods for GBs(or whatever you wish to include)and they weren't there, then you're next in line to receive any when the treasury reaches a high enough amount of everything you need. You have to be fair, but those you lead also have to be fair and not expect the impossible. If what they want just isn't there, then they have to wait until it is.

The way the idea currently is presented it gives absolute power to guild management. They don't need goods buildings and extra goods to produce goods; They can easily produce special goods such as promethium and orichalcum; They can exchange those goods for forge points ect. This idea simply kills purpose of the market; goods building; great building ect. In my view this idea makes the game easier.

I don't think this kills the purpose of anything....aside from FPs for goods trades. It will always be better to produce the goods yourself, and guilds will quickly see who cares about contributing to the guild, and approve them for these things, which they often won't ask for except to build something that strengthens the guild first and foremost. The point you raised about the special goods can be dealt with by the suggestion I put forward in my post before the one I'm quoting here.