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Leonardo DaVinci Event

DeletedUser

I got 3 BP i didn't have.
I got 3 BP of a building i have finished.
I got a duplicate which i traded it and got the last piece which means i started the construction of a GB.

Thank you Da Vinci.
:)
 

DeletedUser556

I got 3 BP i didn't have.
I got 3 BP of a building i have finished.
I got a duplicate which i traded it and got the last piece which means i started the construction of a GB.

Thank you Da Vinci.
:)

You probably spent around 1500-2000 medals. Is that correct?
...for 1 GB. A high price I must say :)

q.e.d. I rest my case.
 

DeletedUser

greedy leonardo wants my medals! and he wants 20 medal!
come on I need 50 for expansion
 

DeletedUser3157

I figured what the hell and finished up his quests. If I recall correctly then it went like this: 20 medals, 40, 80, 150, 250 for 1 BP and then 400 medals 5 times for 2 BPs, then the quest line was completed. It seems I have about 2500 medals less than before, so I think it went about so. So 2500 medals for 15 random BPs. I think this quest line would have been way more useful if it had appeared right when GBs came out, currently paying 2500 medals to get on average 1.25 random BPs to GP you are after seem rather harsh.

I personally have 5 GBs I never plan to build and 5 I already had, so 2 more GBs I was after. Out of the 15 BPs I got 1 BP for those 2 I was looking for(a duplicate). Harsh price in hindsight I quess, hope I didn't waste too many of my medals for this rumoured new medal feature that is said to be coming.
 
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DeletedUser3707

*CONTROLLED RAGE* I'm getting Blueprints for GB that I've already built. Please tell me that we will be able to do something with the duplicate BPs for GBs already built? Because we can't even Trade in those.
 

DeletedUser

PS: I am not complaining or anything. Just stating some facts and personal opinions.

I could never understand this line of argument. By definition, a complaint is "a negative opinion of something". If you're stating a negative opinion, that is by definition 'complaining'.

That's like saying, dear officer, I wasn't speeding, I was just going 90 on a 60.
 

DeletedUser

@poolboyg88

At this moment - no any use for the (duplicate) BPs of an already built GB. However, it has been stated in the 0.24 changelog discussion that those will be somehow dealt with in a future update. I say patience and I've got quite a few duplicate BPs of my GB as well. :)
 

DeletedUser

You probably spent around 1500-2000 medals. Is that correct?
...for 1 GB. A high price I must say :)

q.e.d. I rest my case.

oh, i'm not done yet. Leo is still hanging around.
I do have have some nice spa-s in my city and he seems to be enjoying getting bathed (he needed it) so maybe that's why he is still there.

But yeah, i must have spent exactly 1120 medals but for an optimist like me i got good return

1- I got 3 prints of building i have, which will have awesome use later on.

2- I got 3 new pieces of buildings i will build int the future. That's huge, aint it?

3- Thanks to Leo, i completed that Dresden building which will allow my guild mates to reap more prints from it while freeing me some valuable space with the happiness it provides

If the above rewards don't rock your boat, i must say you are a hard man to please. :) Good luck to your date
 

DeletedUser

I've spent around 800-900 medals and gotten 1 duplicate I think..
Now I've got several GBs with 2-3 BPs.. instead of a few with 5-7.. not sure how I feel about this, but at least they're not dups xD

- L
 

DeletedUser

Leonardo's price keeps going up and the blueprints offered are random. No thanks. Leonardo needs to get real and stop with his ridiculous price gouging. Generally, I like the Great Building idea, especially, the joint effort building aspect but it's zapping too many goods, forge points and medals to make it I think the worse part of GB is discovering the forge you put towards another player's GB gets you nothing in return, if another player adds enough forge to boot you from your ranking. It's like, "Hey, let's all work together on a project and help each other out" but the reality is: players who cannot afford to burn forge points get screwed for helping.
Again, GB is a good idea - and, btw, the designers did an awesome job on the renderings - but it's very costly to participate and tends to reward The Haves over The Have Nots.
How about some game elements that auto-exclude players based on how many premium items and diamonds they have purchased? [enter Rant] Where's the extra bits for all the players who have struggled and made it through the game without using the crutch of the credit card to "buy their way through the game?" Personally, I've bought some premium items and look at those purchases as a way to support the game's development. However, I've not gone overboard and plastered my city with repetitious premium builds or simply bought out all my research to complete an Age. Come on, Leonardo (Inno), help out the Commoners!
[exit Rant, lol]
 

DeletedUser12730

I think these quests are a waste of time and medals. I would much rather spend my medals on expansions and other stuff. I will not be completing any of them.
 

DeletedUser

As a peaceful citybuilder :cool:who has learned that all combat in these games ( as in real life ) is just a bonfire of resources , and the military buildings a waste of productive city space , I picked up a few medals as a reward for negotiating a map province , so out of curiosity I just did the first of Leonardo's offers , and guess what , got a blueprint for an already built building .

A voucher for toilet paper would be more use .

Why annoy your paying customers with disappointing rewards , Inno ?:mad:

And dont tell me it'll all be sorted out in time , this is purely a sloppy piece of programming , same as the glitch that has you finding duplicate B Ps for G Bs , and B Ps for buildings you already have built .

And No the patch that allows you to trade 2 duplicates for 1 different is NOT the solution .
Probably a feature to swap 1 duplication , or 1 for a building you already have , for 1 random one you DONT have , would be .

I mean Come on !
Back when I was doing familiarisation with Computers at business school , 40 years ago , using page 1 of BASIC to do little things on a Coal fired machine the size of a railway train , via a stack of punched cards ( Yes I AM that Old ! ) ,

We were inputting READ , IF (X = value ) , THEN DO ( action Y ) , IF ( AA = value ) , THEN DO ( action BB ) .

This should be Programmers nursery school stuff nowadays to have the system look at what a player has , then allocate something else .

I think the Great buildings are a fine idea , and the graphical representations of the real things are mostly excellent , such a pity the graphics boys at Inno are not matched by the programmers writing the usage / feature operating code .:mad:
 

DeletedUser

It's not about programming. Think about it, how easy would it be if you could get only non-duplicates... Everyone would have all GBs very soon and nobody would help building them
 

DeletedUser

It's not about programming. Think about it, how easy would it be if you could get only non-duplicates... Everyone would have all GBs very soon and nobody would help building them
Exactly.



Although Blueprint collection speed has increased incredibly since its implementation, do realize that the Great Buildings are still meant to be long term projects that should intentionally take weeks or even months to complete.

Blueprint-trades give you an option to actually make use of the duplicates you have, in contrast to when they were just frustratingly useless.

If Blueprint trades gave you exactly what you needed it'd be extremely easy and way too fast to construct the Great Buildings and no one would be helping each other.
So you'd have to level it up by yourself, which would take ages. And no, making the FP requirements per level lower is not the solution. That'd erode the entire point of the feature trying to make the game more socially interactive.

I've found a quote from Game Designer Anwar on the Forums: Source
Game Designer Anwar said:
Hi folks,

...
- There will be a feature that allows you to use BPs of completed Great Buildings. As you can see, we ARE working very hard to bring new content to you. But every one of us also likes to go home after a good day of work, so, much as we would like it, we can't put all the features in immediately.
...

Thanks for you attention,

Anwar
So things are coming, don't worry. This is still a beta and thus some features, especially new ones like the GBs, are incomplete.
As Anwar stated, they have lives to get back to after a day's work. :)

And no, I don't think the feature was implemented prematurely, because this is a beta and we're the testers.
The bulk of the feature is ready and so we're testing it.

- L
 
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DeletedUser

Frankly , that's a crock , my dears .

1 ) I am not saying I should get what reward I seek as soon as I seek it , I am saying it is de-motivating to get an entirely useless and annoying reward .
Which is very bad from the business point of view .
Dont believe me when I tell you this , Go talk to Warren Buffett and see what HE says about that business model .
He would have no problem about the One-arm bandit not paying out to the gambler ; but a great deal to say about one which spat out an exciting envelope , which when you open it often contains just a used cotton-bud .

2 ) I was not commenting on the Drop rate of BPs , but since you raise the topic , I would say that again , getting disappointing and useless rewards MORE OFTEN is also NOT a wise move , and NOT the solution .

3 ) Blueprint trades @ 2 duplicates for one other is fine for dealing with the issue of BP duplication on buildings you have not built yet , but does not address the issue for those you HAVE built .

4 ) Your proposition that no-one would help out with others buildings , and the horrifying picture you paint of having to level up buildings yourself , does not stand up to scrutiny -
Firstly ; - the guild you are in could and should be donating 1 FP per member to get the GB built and operating ,
Secondly ; - the " rewards " are there as an incentive to further investment ,
Thirdly ; - even if you DID have to level them up yourself , simple arithmetic tells you that with 24 FPs every 24 Hrs , about 4 months work would get a BP from level zero to level 10 with no outside help at all . -- By your own definition , taking weeks or even months to complete . Fine by me , I am an old guy , I dont want to finish the whole game by the end of next week .

5 ) - Your last Argument is your WORST , that
( A ) The Programmers are exhausted by their labours , and should not be criticised
( B ) that they have done a Good , Hard Days work with the thing they have produced
( C ) That new additional features are being asked for
( D ) That we the customers are being unrealistic in our demands

There is not a single other business which you use that you would put up with THAT from , now would you ?

" Sorry the wheel falls off your automobile , but we have put a pedal-bike in the trunk of every unit now , to get you home "
" Well I worked real hard all day putting the tyres on the rims , cant expect me to tighten up the wheel nuts too ! " ( Cant I ?? )
" You'll be wanting plush seat covers and a Sat Nav on there next ! " ( No actually , I want the wheels to stay on )
" I know the Advertising you saw and the sales literature we gave you doesn't say so , but this model is actually Prototype model #B475/a13 and you guys are kinda the crash test dummies , you see ? " ( That'd be fine , IF you had explained that before I spent real life money on your sub-standard product ! )

I suspect this is nothing more that the old , old , business story of the management not understanding what the guys beavering away in the backroom are actually doing , insufficient communication between them , insufficient testing before product release into the market , denial that a problem exists when your customers tell you so , and reluctance to invest more resources fixing it .

And probably the biggest problem is that forums like these , where the customers dont just complain , but offer constructive criticism and suggestions to improve the product , are not used as a source of feedback and valuable information , but as a place for the harmless venting of steam in , so that management dont get bothered by this mob of annoying whingy whiners , by filtering out all bad news .

I am quite sure that the game developers have worked very hard on it , and that they find find it very annoying that anyone now comes and rubbishes the product they made and spent so much effort on .
But this is a BUSINESS , not kids playing in a nursery , and one would expect that cogent criticisms DO get back to the Business's movers and shakers .
This problem is not just an INNO thing , I have seen it again and again across the web-games sector , and I think it is because the Game business operators fall into the mental trap of thinking they are outside the normal business models because their business is a game , and not real life , so none of the ordinary care that businesses have to take for their customer's experience of their product or service is quite as necessary as normal .

Mr Buffett would explain that is an unfortunate ( and major ) error .

Last of all , as a German based company , Inno is subject to German and European Union Law which says they MUST provide a sound and non-defective product / service , and that they MUST disclose that the product is still under development AND that the customers who buy it are in fact part of some great testing and development process , BEFORE the customer spends money on it in good faith , believing it to be a finished product " of sound merchantable quality " ( as the UK Law has it ) .
Again , being a Web-Games business does not get you any relief from that , and although doubtless much corporate effort has been put into terms and conditions trying to avoid any consequences , European Courts tend to take a very sour view of businesses where the customer comes and complains he has been stiffed . ( Dont take my word for it - a brief check of " Contracts for the Sale of Goods and Services -- Unfair Terms " , should convince you )
I shant bother to sue for moneys back ( though some pedant might ) but , far worse for Inno's business , I am now a customer with a less than fully satisfied attitude to their product . Bitten once , and twice shy , as the saying has it .
 

DeletedUser

Holy Cannoli.

You did write a long sophisticated piece, and i will surely come back at a more sober time to re-read it but until then, tell me who exactly were you addressing all that to?

*The previous poster?
*The Innogames or any official representative of them?
*The forum community?
*Random rant?
 
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DeletedUser

Frankly , that's a crock , my dears .

1 ) I am not saying I should get what reward I seek as soon as I seek it , I am saying it is de-motivating to get an entirely useless and annoying reward .
Which is very bad from the business point of view .
Dont believe me when I tell you this , Go talk to Warren Buffett and see what HE says about that business model .
He would have no problem about the One-arm bandit not paying out to the gambler ; but a great deal to say about one which spat out an exciting envelope , which when you open it often contains just a used cotton-bud .

2 ) I was not commenting on the Drop rate of BPs , but since you raise the topic , I would say that again , getting disappointing and useless rewards MORE OFTEN is also NOT a wise move , and NOT the solution .

3 ) Blueprint trades @ 2 duplicates for one other is fine for dealing with the issue of BP duplication on buildings you have not built yet , but does not address the issue for those you HAVE built .

4 ) Your proposition that no-one would help out with others buildings , and the horrifying picture you paint of having to level up buildings yourself , does not stand up to scrutiny -
Firstly ; - the guild you are in could and should be donating 1 FP per member to get the GB built and operating ,
Secondly ; - the " rewards " are there as an incentive to further investment ,
Thirdly ; - even if you DID have to level them up yourself , simple arithmetic tells you that with 24 FPs every 24 Hrs , about 4 months work would get a BP from level zero to level 10 with no outside help at all . -- By your own definition , taking weeks or even months to complete . Fine by me , I am an old guy , I dont want to finish the whole game by the end of next week .

5 ) - Your last Argument is your WORST , that
( A ) The Programmers are exhausted by their labours , and should not be criticised
( B ) that they have done a Good , Hard Days work with the thing they have produced
( C ) That new additional features are being asked for
( D ) That we the customers are being unrealistic in our demands

There is not a single other business which you use that you would put up with THAT from , now would you ?

" Sorry the wheel falls off your automobile , but we have put a pedal-bike in the trunk of every unit now , to get you home "
" Well I worked real hard all day putting the tyres on the rims , cant expect me to tighten up the wheel nuts too ! " ( Cant I ?? )
" You'll be wanting plush seat covers and a Sat Nav on there next ! " ( No actually , I want the wheels to stay on )
" I know the Advertising you saw and the sales literature we gave you doesn't say so , but this model is actually Prototype model #B475/a13 and you guys are kinda the crash test dummies , you see ? " ( That'd be fine , IF you had explained that before I spent real life money on your sub-standard product ! )

I suspect this is nothing more that the old , old , business story of the management not understanding what the guys beavering away in the backroom are actually doing , insufficient communication between them , insufficient testing before product release into the market , denial that a problem exists when your customers tell you so , and reluctance to invest more resources fixing it .

And probably the biggest problem is that forums like these , where the customers dont just complain , but offer constructive criticism and suggestions to improve the product , are not used as a source of feedback and valuable information , but as a place for the harmless venting of steam in , so that management dont get bothered by this mob of annoying whingy whiners , by filtering out all bad news .

I am quite sure that the game developers have worked very hard on it , and that they find find it very annoying that anyone now comes and rubbishes the product they made and spent so much effort on .
But this is a BUSINESS , not kids playing in a nursery , and one would expect that cogent criticisms DO get back to the Business's movers and shakers .
This problem is not just an INNO thing , I have seen it again and again across the web-games sector , and I think it is because the Game business operators fall into the mental trap of thinking they are outside the normal business models because their business is a game , and not real life , so none of the ordinary care that businesses have to take for their customer's experience of their product or service is quite as necessary as normal .

Mr Buffett would explain that is an unfortunate ( and major ) error .

Last of all , as a German based company , Inno is subject to German and European Union Law which says they MUST provide a sound and non-defective product / service , and that they MUST disclose that the product is still under development AND that the customers who buy it are in fact part of some great testing and development process , BEFORE the customer spends money on it in good faith , believing it to be a finished product " of sound merchantable quality " ( as the UK Law has it ) .
Again , being a Web-Games business does not get you any relief from that , and although doubtless much corporate effort has been put into terms and conditions trying to avoid any consequences , European Courts tend to take a very sour view of businesses where the customer comes and complains he has been stiffed . ( Dont take my word for it - a brief check of " Contracts for the Sale of Goods and Services -- Unfair Terms " , should convince you )
I shant bother to sue for moneys back ( though some pedant might ) but , far worse for Inno's business , I am now a customer with a less than fully satisfied attitude to their product . Bitten once , and twice shy , as the saying has it .

1&2) If you know it is a gamble and what your chances of getting the reward you seek are, I don't personally see a problem here. Plus it is your choice whether you want to try and get these things or not.
3) It has been said there will be a use for BPs of buildings already built, we just need to wait for it to be completed and released.
4) I don't have an opinion either way here really, so I will leave it at that.
5) Actually, shouldn't we always allow a job the appropriate time to be done, and not expect it to be done the instant we order it? If the company tells me it takes a week to fix the car I wrecked I won't get upset with them for not having it done tomorrow.

As for the game being in Beta, it does say Beta in the front page and when logging in, at least for me it was clear enough indication already that it is a beta game. I also would not spend any cash on a game before properly checking what the game is about and what the value of my money in it would be. ("insufficient testing before product release into the market" It is being tested atm..)

And probably the biggest problem is that forums like these , where the customers dont just complain , but offer constructive criticism and suggestions to improve the product , are not used as a source of feedback and valuable information
Simply untrue. A lot of the ideas from the forums have been implemented in the game, a lot of the feedback is being listened to. Changed have been canceled due to negative feedback. The forums are very much being used to see people's feelings about the game.

I shall not comment on the legal side of your post.
I will merely say, personally I am very pleased with the game, and would not hesitate to recommend it to friends either :)

~Mutzena~
 

DeletedUser

As for your last comment..
I guess a picture says more than 1000 words. This also covers your rants on this being a business and failing.
It's under construction, mate.
33ua2hs.jpg


- L
 
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