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Leaving and rejoining a guild

big fellow

Private
I think that there should be a max of how many times you can leave a guild and rejoin again. It is ruining the game that some leave their guild make a shadow one and attack sectors in the GvG maps just to ruin other guilds hard work.

I would suggest that you could only rejoin a guild 1 time a week/month
 

DeletedUser

Being able to leave your guild and jump into a ghost guild is pretty much what keeps GvG from not sinking today. Sure, remove this ability and you'll make GvG even more boring. If it weren't for the ghost guilds, most guilds wouldn't have anything to do in todays GvG, atleast ghost jumping offers some kind of action. I'm not saying that ghost guilds is a good solution, but instead of adding even more limitations such as the one you suggest, try to solve the actual problem instead. And what's the problem? I think that everyone already knows, but... Siege costs. Reduce the costs and you'll propably see more action without ghost guilds :)
 

DeletedUser97883

It's true that thanks to the siege costs, GvG has become somewhat stagnant. However, by no means does it completely stop the large guilds from expanding. Sure, you need to gather resources for a while, but if you have an active guild, it's not all that long. My guild, Daybringers, in FD, has never used ghost guilds, never will, and I don't think the other big guilds are using them either. At least I haven't seen any. That doesn't mean we don't have fights. Mostly it's smaller guilds attacking us, but every once in a while we also have an offensive fight.

Well, I do think that the siege siege costs get more expensive at a slightly too steep rate, but I would still first place some restrictions to get rid of ghost guilds. The siege costs are there to stop the large guilds from expanding too rapidly, to give the smaller guilds a fighting chance (if they take a sector, it's not so easy to just take it back), and ghost guilds are a cowardly way to circumvent this restriction. We at Daybringers take pride in the fact that we don't need to resort to such tactics, and I'm happy about the fact that I haven't seen those tactics used by others in our server either. Shows that our rivals have some backbone.
 

DeletedUser2989

Being able to leave your guild and jump into a ghost guild is pretty much what keeps GvG from not sinking today. Sure, remove this ability and you'll make GvG even more boring. If it weren't for the ghost guilds, most guilds wouldn't have anything to do in todays GvG, atleast ghost jumping offers some kind of action. I'm not saying that ghost guilds is a good solution, but instead of adding even more limitations such as the one you suggest, try to solve the actual problem instead. And what's the problem? I think that everyone already knows, but... Siege costs. Reduce the costs and you'll propably see more action without ghost guilds :)

I doubt that ghost guilds will disappear by just lowering costs. If you have two options and one (ghost guilding) saves you 50 goods you'll probably choose that option just to make better use of your goods to achieve your goals. Part of the problem of seige costs is that you can use ghost guilds to avoid it. Guilds find it hard to attack other guilds as retaliation can come back in the form of ghost guilds. Removing ghost guilds but maintaining seige costs means more guilds could get involved without extream retaliation.

Don't get me wrong I feel that the seige costs could be adjusted to encourage competition/activity but it'd still need something to combat people avoiding costs.
 

DeletedUser

I doubt that ghost guilds will disappear by just lowering costs. If you have two options and one (ghost guilding) saves you 50 goods you'll probably choose that option just to make better use of your goods to achieve your goals. Part of the problem of seige costs is that you can use ghost guilds to avoid it. Guilds find it hard to attack other guilds as retaliation can come back in the form of ghost guilds. Removing ghost guilds but maintaining seige costs means more guilds could get involved without extream retaliation.

It's simple :) Just set a fixed cost regardless of how many sectors your guild controls. To be honest I don't see the logical reasoning that Inno has used when deciding that there should be raised costs just because a guild already controls a large area. Its like my phone would last 3 days on it's current battery, but if I get 2 phones, it will just last for 2 days :confused: Sure, it can cost to send out a siege, but the costs to send this siege should not raise depending on earlier sieges :) With a fixed cost of, for instance, 30 of each good, there would be no profit at all in using ghost guilds, simply because the main guild could do the work instead :) And yes, it's just a matter of time untill someone says "what about the small guilds???" ... well, get stronger, that's how nature works :)
 

mrbeef

Lieutenant-General
Another reason to leave a guild is maybe to attack guild-mates who are in the same n'hood. A n'hood in which there are several members of the same guild may put you at a disadvantage when competing for the PvP towers due to fewer players that you can attack.
If you had to wait a week to rejoin your guild, it may make things a little awkward :)
 

DeletedUser2989

To be honest I don't see the logical reasoning that Inno has used when deciding that there should be raised costs just because a guild already controls a large area. Its like my phone would last 3 days on it's current battery, but if I get 2 phones, it will just last for 2 days :confused: Sure, it can cost to send out a siege, but the costs to send this siege should not raise depending on earlier sieges :) With a fixed cost of, for instance, 30 of each good, there would be no profit at all in using ghost guilds, simply because the main guild could do the work instead :)

I believe the logical reasoning was "We want to encourage many guilds to get into GvG and by restricting the size a guild can grow to in each province it gives others a better chance to at least get something". In a sense it allows the strong guilds to still gain the most sectors but not all. Other smaller guilds can jump in and give it a shot and will most likely only end up with a small number of sectors. While I'm sure this was the intent I'm not sure it is working that way...

I also don't think you can liken this to phone batteries either, I think of it as in land maintenance (golf courses possibly). If you want to own 9 holes you'd be paying less than what you would to try and own all 18. Not exactly what is happening but close :)

While fixing the cost does remove the need to use ghost guilds it runs the risk of "cashed up" guilds from dominating the landscape to the point where there would be even less guilds involved as it is so cheap to push new guilds back off the map. I can't say for sure that is what would happen but there is that risk. Not to mention how hard it would be to find 1 price that "most" could agree on :)
 

DeletedUser

I believe the logical reasoning was "We want to encourage many guilds to get into GvG and by restricting the size a guild can grow to in each province it gives others a better chance to at least get something". In a sense it allows the strong guilds to still gain the most sectors but not all. Other smaller guilds can jump in and give it a shot and will most likely only end up with a small number of sectors. While I'm sure this was the intent I'm not sure it is working that way...

I also don't think you can liken this to phone batteries either, I think of it as in land maintenance (golf courses possibly). If you want to own 9 holes you'd be paying less than what you would to try and own all 18. Not exactly what is happening but close :)

While fixing the cost does remove the need to use ghost guilds it runs the risk of "cashed up" guilds from dominating the landscape to the point where there would be even less guilds involved as it is so cheap to push new guilds back off the map. I can't say for sure that is what would happen but there is that risk. Not to mention how hard it would be to find 1 price that "most" could agree on :)

Yes, I absolutely agree, that has not worked at all :( Not all servers are as populated as the .EN, and on less populated servers 50-60% of the province is still controlled by npc's. InnoGames tried to create some sort of balance that wasn't required, and now it's just making GvG slow and boring. I'd like to refer to a realistic example: There's no restrictions in how much land a country can control, but still there's not one single country that controls the entire world. Sure, some countries have tried, but failed, and I belive that this exact thing would also happen in the game. If one guild would be close to control the entire province, some other guilds would quickly raise in strength in order to balance it out. The balance of nature :)

Haha ok, you might have a point ;) Let me give another example. Imagine a war were you need to control multiple sectors and you send out a team of choppers for each of these sectors. It requires 50 gasoline (just an example) to fuel one chopper and each siege requires a team of 4 choppers. This means that for each sector you take, it will cost 200 gasoline. However, it will not cost more gasoline per chopper if you already control a number of sectors, and you won't need more choppers to take the next sector :)

Yeah maybe, but I don't think that there's 1 single server that only contains 1 cashed up guild. In most cases we are talking about multiple strong guilds that will most likely fight each other sooner or later :) I think that 30 of each good would be a good cost, considering that it requires multiple sieges to take a sector that is controlled by an active guild :)
 
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DeletedUser2989

I'd like to refer to a realistic example: There's no restrictions in how much land a country can control, but still there's not one single country that controls the entire world. Sure, some countries have tried, but failed, and I belive that this exact thing would also happen in the game. If one guild would be close to control the entire province, some other guilds would quickly raise in strength in order to balance it out. The balance of nature :)

Haha ok, you might have a point ;) Let me give another example. Imagine a war were you need to control multiple sectors and you send out a team of choppers for each of these sectors. It requires 50 gasoline (just an example) to fuel one chopper and each siege requires a team of 4 choppers. This means that for each sector you take, it will cost 200 gasoline. However, it will not cost more gasoline per chopper if you already control a number of sectors, and you won't need more choppers to take the next sector :)

Yeah maybe, but I don't think that there's 1 single server that only contains 1 cashed up guild. In most cases we are talking about multiple strong guilds that will most likely fight each other sooner or later :) I think that 30 of each good would be a good cost, considering that it requires multiple sieges to take a sector that is controlled by an active guild :)

Your examples here are pretty reasonable :) Personally I would like to see if a fixed price would indeed work, just not sure if Inno will share that view...

I'd like to make comments on the cost you've suggested I feel that I'd be wandering off the topic for this thread, but so long as everyone has the same cost it would render ghost guilding (for cost avoiding pruposes) useless.
 

DeletedUser102178

I'm the Founder of my guild in East Nagach and we use guild jumping to help our allies and smaller guilds in gvg and in trading with the costs in goods for each sector increasing a single guild cannot take an entire province but at least with allies 3 guilds can take the top 3 spots on a province by helping each other out and the best way to do this is by guild jumping.
We have sectors in the south of the iron age map and would not be in a position to help our allies in the north without guild jumping.
If it gets reduced to only being able to join a guild once a week many smaller guilds will find it next to impossible to establish themselves in gvg without the help of guild jumping.
 

DeletedUser

If it gets reduced to only being able to join a guild once a week many smaller guilds will find it next to impossible to establish themselves in gvg without the help of guild jumping.

As such this is either pure speculation, or will come under the forum rule regarding no discussion of other servers:

- Please refrain from discussing other FoE servers (language and beta) in our forums. Each site gets updates at its own pace so things may be corrected from one site and not yet the other. Also complaining about features on other sites needlessly riles up other players.

Please could we keep the discussion to known possibilities on the live En servers for now.
 

DeletedUser13082

As such this is either pure speculation, or will come under the forum rule regarding no discussion of other servers:



Please could we keep the discussion to known possibilities on the live En servers for now.

Technically this is a known possibility for the live server as Remorce mentioned that it was going to happen in a post he made a couple of months ago :)
 

mrbeef

Lieutenant-General
As such this is either pure speculation, or will come under the forum rule regarding no discussion of other servers:



Please could we keep the discussion to known possibilities on the live En servers for now.

Which other servers are being discussed? He mentions East-Nagach, but I was under the impression that this forum covers worlds Arvahall to Houndsmoor.
 

DeletedUser

Which other servers are being discussed? He mentions East-Nagach, but I was under the impression that this forum covers worlds Arvahall to Houndsmoor.

The two options for the post I was commenting on were either that it was speculation or that it was obtained from another source. Regarding the worlds on the En server, all 8 worlds are on the same server and therefore they can all be discussed. Speculation and discussion of other servers is non-contributive to this forum.
 

Amy Steele

General
Well spotted mrbeef... to clarify - speculation itself is fine, speculation of what may or may not be happening on other servers is not :)
 

DeletedUser13082

As he didn't mention another source, you are actually speculating too ;)

A source wasn't actually mentioned in the post that Hippocratia quoted. The source of where the information may have come from came when I added about Remorce's post from a while back. (Which I still can't find for the record, if anybody knows where it is then inbox me please :) )
 

DeletedUser7719

Argh, I gotta find that post now? Let's see how long I take:

EDIT: found it -
The developers are looking at putting restrictions on guild hopping. This will be done via coding where players may not be able to join an old guild within a certain time frame. Increasing each time they leave a guild. This is just one idea though. There are others being looked at as well.
So we are allowed to talk about this, and any thoughts about it, but mentioning a fixed amount of days is a no-no since it didn't come from this server
 
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