Helping for Great buildings should be limited - for fair game

[DeletedUser]

this one didnt get answered

Quote Originally Posted by Blacksmith View Post
Look if you give 5 forge points a day or whatver you are fine. If you give 100's of forge points and your in Iron Age or whatever then how bad does that look. I do though use common sense for what is a reasonable donation to what is obviously just giving fps for kicks and giggles and to cheat.

5fps aday or whatever...what is the whatever? 10fps 20 fps?

funny isnt it that there are so many" cheaters" in this game given this title soley because the rules havent been stated clearly
blacksmith assumes we are cheaters purely because he knows the lines which have been crossed, maybe if he enlightened us what the lines actually are then we wouldnt have so many " cheaters" as he puts it.

also a few posts up somebody mentioned it is legitimate to stay in BA build 3 attack gbs and attack all the neighbours
your reply to this blacksmith was (those are within the rules so dont know why you think they wouldnt be.)
when you banned me you said (and yet your donating hundreds and hundreds of forge points and your accounts in certain worlds are only in Iron age. As such your sacrificing your growth to donate forge points to great buildings that you are not of the age to build as they are ages ahead of you.

This doesnt appear funky to you at all?)

let me ask you this if its within the rules to stay in BA and have 3 attack gbs 1 is zeus BA GB/ 2 is cathederal of aachen EA GB
and the 3rd is castel del monte LMA GB. Now how would this be possible if you stated to me in my appeal that it is wrong and im obviously breaking the rules by donating to a GB 3 ages ahead of myself.

you also make it sound like i was logging in to my account just to give out fps you are wrong there too and when you say 100's of fps..let me tell you those hundreds of fps i donated took me weeks and weeks not given all at once no different from any1 else donating to gbs.

 

[DeletedUser276]

Spoiler

That has all been covered

 

[Amy Steele]

Please keep this thread on topic folks - the last few posts have had little or nothing to do with the OP which was about a system for limiting the number of FPs which can be donated to a GB by a particular player. Also a reminder here that discussing bans is not allowed in the forums. See the last section of the rules.

 

[DeletedUser276]

I have deleted the off topic posts. Please stay on topic or warnings and infractions can and will be handed out.

 

[DeletedUser]

I will explain exactly what pushing is and how things work out in a bit for penalties and where the line (sort of) is. as I dont want people seeing the line then toeing it bigtime.

You said it yourself "sort of". There is no strict line to cross since you can never be 100% certain why somebody is donating their FPs since you cant read their minds. A reasonable doubt is best you can get by looking at evidence.

Sounds like a way someone may try to get around the system... see he isnt pushing me I gave him goods. If a low level player is giving you hundreds of fp towards gbs he/she cant use to me thats pushing. Gotta be careful as being sneaky isnt a way around the rules.

What? I missed this one. Every time i set up a new GB i write to everyone on my friendlist that I will offer goods of the same era of the GB if they win first places. Some of them are many eras bellow mine, and yes there are cases when people from Iron Age and HMA invest huge quantities of FP. If this is not legal, block it at the SW level, coz I surely wont bother checking 140 players on my friend list which I constantly update with new friends defriending the old less active ones.

If you want people playing in a certain way you consider apropriate, tweak the game. If this is the line (yes, it's a different line) you are willing to cross to dictate the game style players choose, then you might as well play instead of us.

 

[DeletedUser276]

You said it yourself "sort of". There is no strict line to cross since you can never be 100% certain why somebody is donating their FPs since you cant read their minds. A reasonable doubt is best you can get by looking at evidence.

Wrong I said sort of because I am not going to explain at what level I penalize and what level I dont. Otherwise people will cheat up to that point. I just dont want them cheating at all.

coz I surely wont bother checking 140 players on my friend list which I constantly update with new friends defriending the old less active ones.

Then you will reap the penalty if your caught with players pushing your account. Not my worry if you want to be lazy and not actually know who is on your friends list. It IS called a friends list and not a person I dont know but accept their fp list after all.

If you want people playing in a certain way you consider apropriate, tweak the game. If this is the line (yes, it's a different line) you are willing to cross to dictate the game style players choose, then you might as well play instead of us.

Very well. How about a system where if you want to donate to a great building it will cost you Coins and Supplies as well as goods depending on the level of the great building. As well as a restriction that players cannot donate anything to great buildings till they hit at least middle ages.

that sounds like a plan. Thanks for telling me to tweak the game. It is always great when players tell me to make things harder. *hi 5*

 

[DeletedUser]

Please don't Blacksmith. You know and a lot of us know, that some people have the mentality to screw the system, and end up spoiling it for us all!!

 

[DeletedUser]

Wrong I said sort of because I am not going to explain at what level I penalize and what level I dont. Otherwise people will cheat up to that point. I just dont want them cheating at all.

That sounds like a very wrong approach to me. The rules should be simple and clear to all the players if you dont want them to be broken. In this case, they cannot be neither simple nor clear.

Then you will reap the penalty if your caught with players pushing your account. Not my worry if you want to be lazy and not actually know who is on your friends list. It IS called a friends list and not a person I dont know but accept their fp list after all.

Lol, "it IS called a friend list"? Is this really an argument? xD Alright, I will reply.
Regardless of what its called, its a list of 140 players who play FoE and are there to motivate my town and invest FPs in my GBs. I have no need of making friends trough FoE friend lists xD And yes, I wont bother with checking 140 players, it is just a game for me after all and not a job. If you punish me for that I'll just go and spend my time and money on a different game where player feedback is actually listened to and where rules are handled more professionally.

Very well. How about a system where if you want to donate to a great building it will cost you Coins and Supplies as well as goods depending on the level of the great building. As well as a restriction that players cannot donate anything to great buildings till they hit at least middle ages.
that sounds like a plan. Thanks for telling me to tweak the game. It is always great when players tell me to make things harder. *hi 5*

Do whatever you need to do to make the game more just and fair and you policing the community with arbitrary rule application is surely not the way to do it. I have been playing this game long enough to remember the confusion the FP donation system introduced, even among you members of the staff. Do you remember when you yourself Blacksmith were posting how cross world FP exchange was legal ("even though frowned upon")? Do you remember when other staff members where giving answers to players which you then needed to delete or hide from the forums? Do you remember when you then had to officially change the rules in order to do some damage control on the GB pushing, semi-active account creation which was killing the neighbourhoods - and all because you missed (yeah, the error is on you and your company) the abuse that the FP donation system would cause.

So yeah, tweak the game and make things harder (for cheaters) and more pleasant (for everybody else) so we can finally move on away from this old and tiring issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do whatever you need to do to make the game more just and fair and you policing the community with arbitrary rule application is surely not the way to do it. I have been playing this game long enough to remember the confusion the FP donation system introduced, even among you members of the staff. Do you remember when you yourself Blacksmith were posting how cross world FP exchange was legal ("even though frowned upon")? Do you remember when other staff members where giving answers to players which you then needed to delete or hide from the forums? Do you remember when you then had to officially change the rules in order to do some damage control on the GB pushing, semi-active account creation which was killing the neighbourhoods - and all because you missed (yeah, the error is on you and your company) the abuse that the FP donation system would cause.

I also remember that Blacksmith said that a code will be added which will make FP pushing technically impossible. Still waiting.
Any hard-coded restrictions would be fine (donations that cost coins/supplies is actually a very good idea). But playing knowing that tomorrow you may be banned, without any warning, just because someone didn't like your playstyle... Especially if you were told: "I will not tell you the rules, because you are a cheater and, if you'll know the rules, you'll play by them and I won't be able to ban you". Gosh, if a player play by the rules, he is not a cheater!

And speaking about new official rules. Here is the "definition" of a push account:

"Operating a push account is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (goods, Forge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player."

Every time a player makes donations to find blueprints he makes "unbalanced routine resource transfers".
Every time a player builds a GB he expects/hopes for "unbalanced routine resource transfer" from guildies, neighbors, and friends.
In every guild there is "unbalanced routine resource transfer" - higher-age goods go mostly from higher-level players to lower ones, while lower-age goods go in opposite direction. And if the guild has any kind of goods assistance program, all its members should be banned forever

In its current definition, "push account" is run by 99% of players. If we'll follow official rules to the letter, then Blacksmith is right - we are all cheaters and he can ban any player he wants.

 

[DeletedUser3157]

This whole GBs and FPs issue u can see how difficult position it puts the staff. It's not smth u can easily write black and white rules ala "normal ends here and pushing starts here" types, cause of how different playing standards and means players have cause different scenarios which under some circumstances could be an attement to cheat, while on others it could be just a result of normal game-play. And also because it is still a 2-way interaction 1 side can have rather minimal control over or not even care/notice. So it is smth that also needs case-by-case moderating so the situation could be assesed within its proper context. It's just that players in general don't like when things are looked case-by-case cause it would leave room for possible different interpretations by the moderator depending all kinds of outside factors. In the end it pretty much comes down to trust I think, do u tust this and that person to make such calls etc.

 

[DeletedUser]

This whole GBs and FPs issue u can see how difficult position it puts the staff. It's not smth u can easily write black and white rules ala "normal ends here and pushing starts here" types, cause of how different playing standards and means players have cause different scenarios which under some circumstances could be an attement to cheat, while on others it could be just a result of normal game-play. And also because it is still a 2-way interaction 1 side can have rather minimal control over or not even care/notice. So it is smth that also needs case-by-case moderating so the situation could be assesed within its proper context. It's just that players in general don't like when things are looked case-by-case cause it would leave room for possible different interpretations by the moderator depending all kinds of outside factors. In the end it pretty much comes down to trust I think, do u tust this and that person to make such calls etc.

As agent Smith said: "Never send a human to do a machine's job" :-P

Why bother with all this nonsense when all they need to do is a small SW change (making FP donations dependent on eras and/or only among guildmates) if they dont wanna invest time and resources in changing the system altogether (e.g. donation system trough goods, coins/supplies).

 

[DeletedUser8813]

and with all the argument and pages of discussion the solution is actually very simple..probably to simple for some thinkers...Only allow players to donate a set % of the daily forge points they receive a day to gbs the rest have to go to the tech side unless you are at the end of the tech then you can donate 100%..simple problem solved.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Still not a good idea since push accounts will still get a lot of fp to someone else over time. Plus, the main reason why I give fp to other GBs on cities that I'm not finished with the tech is because I lack the goods(/coins/supplies) to unlock the next one.

 

[DeletedUser8813]

it would limit a push account some what ..it is human nature and it has always been the same with any game ..humans will try to find a way to cheat...
it would also give everyone what they want a decisive ruling on this subject..no grey area no in between or pushing the line.
it would yes hinder those that have no tech to unlock because of coins/goods/or supply shortages .but it was like that before gbs were bought in.many times i could not use fps because of these reasons..that is just a rub of the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Why not allow donations to other GBs only for active players? It may be realized as follows: every action of a player gives him certain amount of "activity points", for example, 1 M/P or 1 collection = 1 activity point, 1 battle (won) = 5 points, 1 FP put into tech tree = 10 points, 1 FP put into player's GB by others = 5 points (this is to allow FP swaps), and so on. Donation of 1 FP to other's GB cost 10 activity points (all numbers are up to devs). If a player doesn't have enough activity points, he won't be able to donate. It eliminates possibility of running push accounts (which are low-activity ones), but allows active players to do with their FPs what they like.

 

[DeletedUser9168]

Why not allow donations to other GBs only for active players? It may be realized as follows: every action of a player gives him certain amount of "activity points", for example, 1 M/P or 1 collection = 1 activity point, 1 battle (won) = 5 points, 1 FP put into tech tree = 10 points, 1 FP put into player's GB by others = 5 points (this is to allow FP swaps), and so on. Donation of 1 FP to other's GB cost 10 activity points (all numbers are up to devs). If a player doesn't have enough activity points, he won't be able to donate. It eliminates possibility of running push accounts (which are low-activity ones), but allows active players to do with their FPs what they like.

sounds basically a good idea to me! if this info was also available to guild leaders, if would help check out inactive accounts within the guild as well

 

[DeletedUser]

if this info was also available to guild leaders, if would help check out inactive accounts within the guild as well

Guild leaders are already given insight into accounts being active or not It may be a bit conflicting with privacy to tell other players what a certain player is doing exactly (i.e. if he/she is gaining these suggested "points" or not)!

 

[DeletedUser14782]

What if you actually want a GB? Do you have to be punished because you want to get a GB?

 

[DeletedUser9546]

and with all the argument and pages of discussion the solution is actually very simple..probably to simple for some thinkers...Only allow players to donate a set % of the daily forge points they receive a day to gbs the rest have to go to the tech side unless you are at the end of the tech then you can donate 100%..simple problem solved.

Womp Womp .. makes no sense
Sometimes people wait too long and if you have good timing those with fp packets come in handy; you can drop a quick 30 in to beat them to 1st and get back your 30 PLUS medals. If you limit them to a % of daily fps then they lose out of bps...nice try though

 

[DeletedUser7719]

I thought "the solution" was suppose to be implemented soon, but did the devs decide to rework/cancel it? Or is it also coming with the other use of duplicate BPs?