GB balancing changes - discussion thread

[DeletedUser]

... What are you referring to, please and thank you? The new boosts were announced here, and the ratios can be worked out by anyone with the math skills.

He was referring to posts once again referring to the beta server. The specific posts have been either removed or edited as appropriate. Your discussion/questions regarding how the announced plans to change GB boosts will affect the game play on this server are welcome here.

 

[DeletedUser1081]

He was referring to posts once again referring to the beta server. The specific posts have been either removed or edited as appropriate. Your discussion/questions regarding how the announced plans to change GB boosts will affect the game play on this server are welcome here.

I see. Thank you for clarifying - we can't tell what's referred to if it's gone.

 

[DeletedUser]

Having spent what seems like an eternity reading all the threads on this subject and sifting through the high level of personal abuse and general meaningless moans that people seem to enjoy airing ......can I add my 2 pence worth please ? Having played this game for over 1.5 years now and battled my way (literally) to the top (almost) of one of the servers here, I personally think this update is going to be fantastic and well done for InnoGames for bringing it in. I realise such comments are controversial and will be frowned at by regular posters (or whatever the term is).....but this is from someone who battles everyone in the hood every day, so I completely realise how much more difficult my life is going to become with the re-balancing.

All I can say is - about time ! (omitted swear word in the middle). It has been completely ridiculous so far that people with 75% attack bonus are regularly defeating players with 300% defence bonus with no troop loss (and on automatic too). As for the controversy over the watchfires being unaffected....too right (swear word omitted again) !! The people complaining about that are the ones that didn't have the foresight to go for these on the 2 quests in which they appeared, rather than the quick fix prizes like premium buildings, diamonds, wishing wells etc. It was clear long before these GB balancing changes were announced that watchfires (and rogue hideouts of course) were the only long term useful objects available.

So stop your moaning, admit you all screwed up, and enjoy the game.....and thanks again to the creators of this wonderful game for a great update.

ps/ all my comments above refer only to the normal game and not GvG as that hasn't arrived yet so I cant really comment (and, as many sensible people have already stated here, we cant just refer to the beta server as experience, as it may or may not relate to what actually arrives).

 

[DeletedUser]

I think this balancing is not much for renegade soldier, they will do battle by manual and their army still grow, it will take little time to change their tactic and the way they will enjoy this game is different this time. Still can cause trouble when the slowly regroup and take over sector by sector without loosing army. so take your time.
But watch tower will ruin everything as it already don't have proper plan since the beginning, one more military boost GB still didn't help new player to join GvG or PvP not to mention it is BAD for business because I did't need that much watch tower anymore. Unlimited supply also mean loose control over the game , security company cannot leave without bandit on street.
300% defend mean u will loose lot of troop

 

[DeletedUser3157]

As for the controversy over the watchfires being unaffected....too right (swear word omitted again) !! The people complaining about that are the ones that didn't have the foresight to go for these on the 2 quests in which they appeared, rather than the quick fix prizes like premium buildings, diamonds, wishing wells etc. It was clear long before these GB balancing changes were announced that watchfires (and rogue hideouts of course) were the only long term useful objects available.

So stop your moaning, admit you all screwed up, and enjoy the game.....and thanks again to the creators of this wonderful game for a great update.

I don't have a single watchfire in my town and I "complained" about them. But I did collect 30 of them in my inventory just in case I ever need to build them. I still wont' build them with the new change, because they still have zero benefit on my points(I gain nothing by having very high/almost unbreakable defense currently). But that doesn't mean the building that has it's effective strenght value in relation to OGBs and DGBs going up by 3 times is not worth a look at. It is, for the simple reason of unbalancing this PvP they just trying to balance here.

 

[DeletedUser13805]

I don't have a single watchfire in my town and I "complained" about them. But I did collect 30 of them in my inventory just in case I ever need to build them. I still wont' build them with the new change, because they still have zero benefit on my points(I gain nothing by having very high/almost unbreakable defense currently). But that doesn't mean the building that has it's effective strenght value in relation to OGBs and DGBs going up by 3 times is not worth a look at. It is, for the simple reason of unbalancing this PvP they just trying to balance here.

there is one thing i agree with you on and its watchtowers as what is the point in having a defense that is unbeatable ?
i have a few dotted about my town as i picked them up from different places and my defense gbs are still not maxed out but i gave up ages ago with the defense side as i come to see its pointless trying to keep players out

@ cliff post
your bang on the button with your post, players (including me) are a bit cheesed off that we didn't get rogues when they were out as its made the game so dam easy for rouge owners compared to players who dont have them. these new changes will have very little impact for rouge owners as there rouges will always take that first hit so they will still be able to beat any defense out there compared to the idiot who trys to battle a huge defense with 8 troops ( me included as the idiot )
all the high scores we have around here are set by rouge owners i will never get a chance to set even a ba tower record simply because i dont have rouges
so for me the rouges make the game to easy so i do pride myself in having to slog it out daily in manual useing real troops, i could kick myself at the space i could of saved if i had rouges also
so all in all the new changes will have very little impact on the rouge owners but a huge impact on those who dont have them ( me )
yes i am an idiot for not getting them but they were useless in my eyes when they were first out

so for fairness to all, the rouges should also suffer something of a tweak so that those players can also feel the impact of the new changes, as without it the rouge owners will not suffer in anyway by these changes and the rouge owners know it hence they get up in arms at me for dareing to post like i do over it but its only the truth
let see players like hint set a high score without using rouges ? this might sound like sour grapes as i dont have them and its not belive me its just my view as a player who doesnt have them and seeing the advantages these units give to players,
i want a level playing field not others having such advantages in a game.

 

[DeletedUser97960]

Having spent what seems like an eternity reading all the threads on this subject and sifting through the high level of personal abuse and general meaningless moans that people seem to enjoy airing ......can I add my 2 pence worth please ?

The fact that other players have a different opinion on this subject to you does not make what they have to say 'meaningless'.

 

[DeletedUser]

Having spent what seems like an eternity reading all the threads on this subject and sifting through the high level of personal abuse and general meaningless moans that people seem to enjoy airing ......can I add my 2 pence worth please ? Having played this game for over 1.5 years now and battled my way (literally) to the top (almost) of one of the servers here, I personally think this update is going to be fantastic and well done for InnoGames for bringing it in. I realise such comments are controversial and will be frowned at by regular posters (or whatever the term is).....but this is from someone who battles everyone in the hood every day, so I completely realise how much more difficult my life is going to become with the re-balancing.

All I can say is - about time ! (omitted swear word in the middle). It has been completely ridiculous so far that people with 75% attack bonus are regularly defeating players with 300% defence bonus with no troop loss (and on automatic too). As for the controversy over the watchfires being unaffected....too right (swear word omitted again) !! The people complaining about that are the ones that didn't have the foresight to go for these on the 2 quests in which they appeared, rather than the quick fix prizes like premium buildings, diamonds, wishing wells etc. It was clear long before these GB balancing changes were announced that watchfires (and rogue hideouts of course) were the only long term useful objects available.

So stop your moaning, admit you all screwed up, and enjoy the game.....and thanks again to the creators of this wonderful game for a great update.

ps/ all my comments above refer only to the normal game and not GvG as that hasn't arrived yet so I cant really comment (and, as many sensible people have already stated here, we cant just refer to the beta server as experience, as it may or may not relate to what actually arrives).

Ignoring the incredibly sanctimonious tone of your post, how is having watchfires useful in the longterm? How often are you getting plundered? Merely getting attacked doesn't harm you AT ALL and preventing this isn't really useful. This is what made the defensive GBs kind of a waste. Howver, those at least serve a purpose now (even though that new purpose has been nerfed), but watchfires don't affect GvG so they don't serve that purpose. Watchfires are better than useless decorations, but if you design your base well, you shouldn't have a ton of wasted spaces to fill with watchfires. If you are actually placing enough watchfires down to the point that you are sacrificing other buildings, then you are pretty much plundering yourself.

Plundering is next to nonexistent in later ages unless you are super lazy and aren't getting pollivated at all. So what long term usefulness is it clear they have?

The effect that these changes have on the long-term viability of PvP is what people are talking about. I agree something needed to give, people are just unhappy with the execution of that change.

(the fact that watchfires and monasteries won't affect GvG has been said a million times on here, forgive me if I crossed the line here, but it is kind of hard to tell when the announcement specifically mentions GvG and this particular thing has been said so much.)


@desy, I am sure you can pick up rogues in Easter. You can't really hold it against people for seeing the potential of rogues just because you didn't. The fact that you don't have them even after Summer Event (well after their usefulness had become abundantly clear) has to either be a result of a choice you made or from you not being around for it.

 

[DeletedUser]

How is having watchfires useful in the longterm? How often are you getting plundered? Merely getting attacked doesn't harm you AT ALL and preventing this isn't really useful. This is what made the defensive GBs kind of a waste. Howver, those at least serve a purpose now (even though that new purpose has been nerfed), but watchfires don't affect GvG so they don't serve that purpose. Watchfires are better than useless decorations, but if you design your base well, you shouldn't have a ton of wasted spaces to fill with watchfires. If you are actually placing enough watchfires down to the point that you are sacrificing other buildings, then you are pretty much plundering yourself.

Plundering is next to nonexistent in later ages unless you are super lazy and aren't getting pollivated at all. So what long term usefulness is it clear they have?

.

Leeroy - you are conveniently forgetting goods buildings in your plundering statement. These cannot be protected. You are correct in that after you have made all the goods necessary for an era (both for the tech tree and for constructing the GBS from that era), then you can delete your goods buildings and just have supply/coins buildings. With regular pol/mot you will not then get plundered. But how long does it take to finish with goods for an era without diamonds ?? Maybe 6-8 weeks at the very minimum. I was constantly plundered in the ME age at that point and lost a lot of goods ....and that was with 350% defence which was regularly being beaten with attacks of less than 100%, which is obviously a ridiculous situation ! With the new system that is extremely unlikely to happen given my investment in a strong defence (watchfires included). So watchfires are incredibly useful long term, and none of mine were placed to fill holes, but to serve a defence purpose, at the expense of rather pointless extra supply buildings (when you have 200mil of the things there is a limit to their use, other than to increase slightly the rather futile points gathering process that some players seem to almost religiously crave). Without wishing to veer off topic that is another weird one - why not just do away with points altogether and come up with an actual measure of how good a player is, rather than just a cumulative points count that means nothing, other than to tell other players how long you have been playing the game for. And I have over 5 mil pts...but I realise it means absolutely nothing .....

 

[DeletedUser]

Leeroy - you are conveniently forgetting goods buildings in your plundering statement. These cannot be protected. You are correct in that after you have made all the goods necessary for an era (both for the tech tree and for constructing the GBS from that era), then you can delete your goods buildings and just have supply/coins buildings. With regular pol/mot you will not then get plundered. But how long does it take to finish with goods for an era without diamonds ?? Maybe 6-8 weeks at the very minimum. I was constantly plundered in the ME age at that point and lost a lot of goods ....and that was with 350% defence which was regularly being beaten with attacks of less than 100%, which is obviously a ridiculous situation ! With the new system that is extremely unlikely to happen given my investment in a strong defence (watchfires included). So watchfires are incredibly useful long term, and none of mine were placed to fill holes, but to serve a defence purpose, at the expense of rather pointless extra supply buildings (when you have 200mil of the things there is a limit to their use, other than to increase slightly the rather futile points gathering process that some players seem to almost religiously crave). Without wishing to veer off topic that is another weird one - why not just do away with points altogether and come up with an actual measure of how good a player is, rather than just a cumulative points count that means nothing, other than to tell other players how long you have been playing the game for. And I have over 5 mil pts...but I realise it means absolutely nothing .....

Actually I didn't forget them. I think the last goods building I built was in CA. I won't bother explaining how this is possible without diamonds b/c I am sure you figured it out long ago. Maybe you have wasted too much space by placing watchfires?

If we ignore all of that, what you seem to be saying is that watchfires are only useful for people in bad neighborhoods who are also very poor at timing their collections. The better long term solution would probably be to play smarter. Think of how much is lost long term by having a bunch of space taken up by watchfires. It is astronomical. I guarantee this would cover the costs of plundering.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually I didn't forget them. I think the last goods building I built was in CA. I won't bother explaining how this is possible without diamonds b/c I am sure you figured it out long ago. Maybe you have wasted too much space by placing watchfires?

If we ignore all of that, what you seem to be saying is that watchfires are only useful for people in bad neighborhoods who are also very poor at timing their collections. The better long term solution would probably be to play smarter. Think of how much is lost long term by having a bunch of space taken up by watchfires. It is astronomical. I guarantee this would cover the costs of plundering.

You are getting off thread I think...but in response I would very happily trade some more of my rather useless supply/coin buildings for even more watchfires right now. Sure I could do without goods buildings by trading up/down or swapping for FPS etc but I chose not to. And do you really need those extra coins/supplies by completely filling your city with them ? I dont think so....which brings me back to the subject at the end of my last post.....the mad points obsession, which is achieving nothing when you stand back and think about it ! And most people like me have real lives where wives, kids, friends etc mean that we cannot get to a computer at exactly the same time every day of the week....I prefer it that way. So the GB regrading is actually making FOE more like real life now, where attack/defence are more balanced and there are always prizes for those who spend the time to think about strategy. And....just like real life....prizes can be plundered from those with a weaker defence...whilst those with high defences will have a more realistic chance of keeping their possessions and not having to madly get to a computer to collect them on time every day

 

[DeletedUser13082]

You are getting off thread I think...but in response I would very happily trade some more of my rather useless supply/coin buildings for even more watchfires right now. Sure I could do without goods buildings by trading up/down or swapping for FPS etc but I chose not to. And do you really need those extra coins/supplies by completely filling your city with them ? I dont think so....which brings me back to the subject at the end of my last post.....the mad points obsession, which is achieving nothing when you stand back and think about it ! And most people like me have real lives where wives, kids, friends etc mean that we cannot get to a computer at exactly the same time every day of the week....I prefer it that way. So the GB regrading is actually making FOE more like real life now, where attack/defence are more balanced and there are always prizes for those who spend the time to think about strategy. And....just like real life....prizes can be plundered from those with a weaker defence...whilst those with high defences will have a more realistic chance of keeping their possessions and not having to madly get to a computer to collect them on time every day

The mad point obsession is achieving nothing and yet earlier in a previous post you were bragging of your high rank in one of the worlds on this server? Well done...

 

[DeletedUser]

The mad point obsession is achieving nothing and yet earlier in a previous post you were bragging of your high rank in one of the worlds on this server? Well done...

Please re-read my previous post before posting....you will see it is completely the opposite to what you are stating

 

[DeletedUser13082]

Please re-read my previous post before posting....you will see it is completely the opposite to what you are stating

Fair enough, my bad, I misread the post prior to the one I responded too.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are getting off thread I think...but in response I would very happily trade some more of my rather useless supply/coin buildings for even more watchfires right now. Sure I could do without goods buildings by trading up/down or swapping for FPS etc but I chose not to. And do you really need those extra coins/supplies by completely filling your city with them ? I dont think so....which brings me back to the subject at the end of my last post.....the mad points obsession, which is achieving nothing when you stand back and think about it ! And most people like me have real lives where wives, kids, friends etc mean that we cannot get to a computer at exactly the same time every day of the week....I prefer it that way. So the GB regrading is actually making FOE more like real life now, where attack/defence are more balanced and there are always prizes for those who spend the time to think about strategy. And....just like real life....prizes can be plundered from those with a weaker defence...whilst those with high defences will have a more realistic chance of keeping their possessions and not having to madly get to a computer to collect them on time every day

Now who is off thread? I was merely pointing out that anyone who actually employs a smart strategy can avoid getting plundered. You skipped the first part I see, but it would probably be hard to respond to.

Plundering should not be a guiding force for drastic changes such as this. Plundering is only a problem for people who are very new to game and in a bad hood, or for people who simply haven't figured out how to play the game well (being at computer at right time means little-as I said I haven't had goods buildings in ages).

These changes will kill PvP (what is left of it after hood merging) and considering the fact that watchfires will undoubtedly be offered again soon, it is only going to get worse. Plundering would be only reason to continue PvP after changes, but plundering has been neutered so much (must plunder a completed, nonmotivated, uncollected building) that it is never going to pay for the effort.

The changes needed to happen, but not in this way or this drastically. Don't really know how else to say it man. Your post and responses are all over the place, but I am trying to tie everything together (maybe not doing it well?).

You would have a point if they drastically changed plundering to make it viable, but that isn't anywhere near the case right now. As I previously established, watchfires are only useful to inactive people who haven't figured out how to play game well, but those are the ONLY people we can currently have a chance at plundering (without constantly clikcing through hood on loop every 5 minutes to see if they have anything available). This new system means plundering will be even less common (and more costly).

 

[DeletedUser3157]

let see players like hint set a high score without using rouges

Just like now, I held all the top scores before there were any rogues. Just like I held all of the best scores before there were any GBs(back when it actually mattered a bit). I think I'd do fine, players who can identify best units and strategies usually do ok in most circumstances.

 

[DeletedUser8813]

lol...holding the highest score is just a matter of being the first to bother posting it in the forum ..not a real test of ones battle prowess

 

[DeletedUser3157]

lol...holding the highest score is just a matter of being the first to bother posting it in the forum ..not a real test of ones battle prowess

Point on. That's why only real scores I've bothered with in last 6+ months have been the unboosted, HMA and LMA scores, just going for style points cause total maxes are worthless.

 

[mrbeef]

I love my Watchfires. I have many many millions of Coins and Supplies. If I sell my PE military buildings I will have an abundance of space too. If after the 1.20 update my WFs will make my city more secure, then I will sleep so much better at night.

I may not be getting plundered now, but I don't see anything wrong in having that little extra peace of mind.

 

[DeletedUser13805]

Just like now, I held all the top scores before there were any rogues. Just like I held all of the best scores before there were any GBs(back when it actually mattered a bit). I think I'd do fine, players who can identify best units and strategies usually do ok in most circumstances.

i should of said lets see players like hint beat the high scores without using rouges
we know you keep beating the high scores hint with the rouges as you never fail to post something or other but to me its meaningless as its not an 8 troop fight and also to use 7 rouges and 1 low age unit to beat todays moden troops is just plain daft and shows how easy it is with the rouge units, i am still waiting for someone to beat 8 tanks with 7 rouges and 1 slinger lol who knows it might be you who does it hint : )