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Forwarded: Ability to Modify Defensive AI Priorities

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DeletedUser

Proposal:
I propose the ability to define a personal list of priorities for the Defensive AI to follow be added to the game.


Have you checked the forums for the same or similar idea:
I have seen many threads discussing the AI's drawbacks, but none that proposed an idea like this.


Reason:
Everyone knows that the AI used on defense is predictable and easily tricked. Common tactics include using a Fast unit to lead the enemy back and forth across the map, or using a Grenadier to absorb enemy Long Range attacks. Some go as far as to say it's impossible to properly defend your town because of this.


Details:
The current AI obviously uses a list of priorities when deciding on an action. A simplified example is:
1) Most Damaged unit in range
2) Closest Ranged unit in range
3) Closest Melee unit in range
4) Stay out of range

My suggestion is to add a screen in game that lets you define a personal list of priorities for your units to use. For example a "Furthest Ranged Unit" priority would throw a wrench into the standard 7 Long Range + 1 Grenadier attacks.

In my example visual aid below, you can define behavior by defending unit type. Hopefully self explanatory.


Visual Aids:
Visual aids within spoiler tags.
Example of possible Defensive Priorities screen.
7cJaX91.png
Example placement of a "Set Defensive Priority" button. Not really an important aspect, it could go anywhere.
Qx6uObR.png


Balance/Abuse Prevention:
No balance or abuse issues as far as I can tell.


Summary:
Having no technical knowledge of how defending AI is currently set up, I have no idea if something like this is possible. Also, changes planned with the upcoming Guild Wars may make something like this not worth adding. It may just be a pipe dream.

But with the way things currently are in game, an option like this would make PVP battles more interesting and challenging. It might encourage people to actually try to defend their cities again instead of giving up on being able to defend properly and going the 2 spearmen route.

I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback.

EDIT: This could also make NPC battles more interesting as well if the same idea were applied to them. For example one province could have warriors that charge into battle, while another might be more cautious and prefer to stay back and attack from range.

EDIT2: At least look at the first visual aid before you decide! I'm really proud of it!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

This is the BOMB!

Drop it like it's HOT, Drop it like it's HOT!

P.S. I think others might think this is too advanced but i LOVE IT!

+1 :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

mungiu said:
I think others might think this is too advanced
Click to expand...

I can see where concerns about it being too complicated might come from. But nothing says it would have to be used by a player. There can always be default settings that are similar to the way the AI works now and players just be allowed to modify them if they wish. Could place the button in the Settings screen somewhere as an 'advanced' option.

The whole reason I thought of this was because another player was complaining to me the other day about the AI, how their dragoons were facing short ranged units, ones that dragoons specifically have bonuses against. But instead of moving in for the kill, they took a few steps forward and attempted to stay out of range, which led to them losing. This player said that they felt there was no point in actually trying to defend since the current AI can be taken advantage of so easily, a sentiment that's been echoed here on the forums many times.

It seems to me that if so many people are willing to give up on an aspect of the game, it should at least be looked at.
 

DeletedUser

+1 from me. Great visual aid.
This is something that can bring more balance to PvP with regards to the inadequacy of the AI. I think it is a good way for more personal input and variety to the battle system in general. Especially when taking into account the offensive/defensive boosts provided by Great Buildings.

As for concerns about it being too complex, players can also skip the option to "set priorities" or just modify one or two things.
 

DeletedUser

LadyMedea said:
As for concerns about it being too complex, players can also skip the option to "set priorities" or just modify one or two things.
Click to expand...

Add this to the main post Tae !

LoL are all other users scared of posting in here?
 

DeletedUser

+1 great idea. However, without knowing how the current AI is implemented it will be hard to offer anything useful as far as implementation goes.

EDIT: I will defiantly try to offer something more, once I have more than a couple of minutes break to think about it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser8813

Yes i like this idea,it will give you a little more control .some will find it hard or think its to advanced but they will learn if they are willing..
 

DeletedUser

Taeriyn said:
Example of possible Defensive Priorities screen.
7cJaX91.png
Click to expand...
I can see several problems with this. First of all this example is too complicated and not complicated enough. There is no way you can cover all possible states, unless the devs decide to put up their FSM here. Which will probably limit devs options to tweak/adapt it and thoroughly disappoint you as to the AI intelligence. So as much as I'd love more complexity in this regard, I think that several profiles such as "defensive" vs "Aggressive"(one that try to win, the other to inflict most damage) with devs setting up the values might be best, at least to begin with.

Furthermore, I suspect that there is only unit AI, based on basic FSM and IMO without at least basic tactical AI feed that consider the battlefield as whole, all of this about better AI is just wishful thinking.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser

+1 pretty good idea. My only question is how much juice this will use up, the game crashes pretty frequently as it is now.
 

DeletedUser4202

1+ to this idea it would make the PvP more strategic and keep a better balance. If this were implemented I might start defending again as of right now I see no use of defending since my units are killing themselves with no effort from their part.

Yes, I have noticed that the ai is a little bit smarter as of know my long distance and short distance is always targeted first even if it means that the ai short distance have to take more steps to get there.
 

DeletedUser

One thing no one has mentioned, there is already a way to make your AI smarter, build the statue of Zeus! also now that we have the Easter event we can buy Watchtowers, these things improve the defensive capability of the AI, do we want to get rid of these improvements?
 

DeletedUser

theonlysilky said:
One thing no one has mentioned, there is already a way to make your AI smarter, build the statue of Zeus!
Click to expand...

Statue of Zeus has zero affect on the AI at any time, as it only boosts your attacking army, which is always controlled by you.
 

DeletedUser

+1

As for it being complicated... these will appeal to many of the more advanced/knowledgeable users and having a default set-up would alleviate this. Besides which, there are several players that would undoubtedly test it to the max and record their findings on the FoE Wiki as many players have already done with other aspects of the game.
 

DeletedUser17245

i suport this idea only if defender will need to rebuild his units after attack same as attacker needs, only than am up for this idea, u can plan your defence but every unit u lost u need coin and suplyes to rebuild it same as attacker needs it!
 

DeletedUser2989

I love this idea, it was only minutes ago that I was watching a replay and was disgusted by how my units prioritized targets and movements. My Fast unit moved forwards without any targets being available to it, leading to it being slaughtered. My long ranged unit targeted enemy snipers doing nothing when it could have targeted a tank and at least scratched it. My conscript avoided using trenches and entrenchments that would have boosted it's attack/defense and stood in the open shooting other conscripts ignoring it's better targets (the enemy heavies/long ranged).

The AI has some positives such as jaegers hiding in trees till a target presents itself or warriors preferencing open areas before resorting to standing on bushes. However they seem to be set on a "target the weakest" regardless of the bonuses the individual units get. Ie sniper is physically weaker than a tank at base but a long ranged unit can cause more damage against a tank than a sniper after bonuses are applied. In earlier ages the weakest unit is always the long ranged unit and now the are rushed with heavies being ignored. So while the changes have rendered earlier strategies ineffective, ie fast/heavy dummy units no longer fool the enemy, it's been replaced by the long ranged/short dummy target.

As for the idea as it is currently set up, I think everything would need to start at default (as set by the game) with players then modifying the targeting command that AI use specific to each unit type (obviously possible as different unit types already use different terrain). This would be done using the actions similar to the way Taeriyn described in the spoiler image (modifiers seems excessive to me and modifying the movement behavior is perhaps a bit too complex for a simple one line tag) except it would be a list of unit types, eg My long ranged target long ranged then heavy then light then ranged then fast, My fast target ... and so on. This way you are only altering the targeting part of the AI not the AI as a whole (how it moves and all that). This relies on the "Default" setting being the target preferences the way they are and AI movement preferencing it's bonus terrain types.

Where you run into problems with any such system is can the server handle adding personalized AI behaviors to each player on the server? This wouldn't be the first "simple" idea that actually adds a mountain of data. The only way I can see to implement this idea while minimizing data would be to have a small set of 3 or so profiles which have all the AI behaviors set up to be either aggressive at range, aggressive up close or defensive. Given a good enough description of the general AI behavior for the three profiles players could use them to shape their defense while sacrificing the fine detail of the above customization system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser15432

Taeriyn said:
Proposal:
I propose the ability to define a personal list of priorities for the Defensive AI to follow be added to the game.


Have you checked the forums for the same or similar idea:
I have seen many threads discussing the AI's drawbacks, but none that proposed an idea like this.


Reason:
Everyone knows that the AI used on defense is predictable and easily tricked. Common tactics include using a Fast unit to lead the enemy back and forth across the map, or using a Grenadier to absorb enemy Long Range attacks. Some go as far as to say it's impossible to properly defend your town because of this.


Details:
The current AI obviously uses a list of priorities when deciding on an action. A simplified example is:
1) Most Damaged unit in range
2) Closest Ranged unit in range
3) Closest Melee unit in range
4) Stay out of range

My suggestion is to add a screen in game that lets you define a personal list of priorities for your units to use. For example a "Furthest Ranged Unit" priority would throw a wrench into the standard 7 Long Range + 1 Grenadier attacks.

In my example visual aid below, you can define behavior by defending unit type. Hopefully self explanatory.


Visual Aids:
Visual aids within spoiler tags.
Example of possible Defensive Priorities screen.
7cJaX91.png
Example placement of a "Set Defensive Priority" button. Not really an important aspect, it could go anywhere.
Qx6uObR.png


Balance/Abuse Prevention:
No balance or abuse issues as far as I can tell.


Summary:
Having no technical knowledge of how defending AI is currently set up, I have no idea if something like this is possible. Also, changes planned with the upcoming Guild Wars may make something like this not worth adding. It may just be a pipe dream.

But with the way things currently are in game, an option like this would make PVP battles more interesting and challenging. It might encourage people to actually try to defend their cities again instead of giving up on being able to defend properly and going the 2 spearmen route.

I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback.

EDIT: This could also make NPC battles more interesting as well if the same idea were applied to them. For example one province could have warriors that charge into battle, while another might be more cautious and prefer to stay back and attack from range.

EDIT2: At least look at the first visual aid before you decide! I'm really proud of it!
Click to expand...

Extremely hood, well thought out idea +1 from me here
 

DeletedUser

+1 from me, as mentioned above is soooo annoying when you watch the replay and AI has done some really silly moves haha, kim.
 

DeletedUser97590

Great idea, yet 9 months later nothing like it has been implemented.
Hopefully it will be implemented one day.
 
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