New Content Guild Battlegrounds Update 2023 Feedback Thread

[Nidwin]

I think it should be less, maybe 1/5. The only reason I can see why they don't implement it is that they don't want to admit they got it wrong in the first place. So it will stay wrong indefinitely and we are stuck with it. At least that is the implication of @Kyrael's response to feedback on this topic.

The most bizarre part of @Kyrael's response to feedback is the claim that designing a better matchmaking system is too difficult for them. The current "ranking" system would actually make a lot of sense if it were used for matchmaking, since guilds currently deprived of tower fragments would get a better chance next time around. It would make even more sense if they reduced the LPs awarded of course. They just should not call it a "ranking" system. Apparently it is really designing a ranking system that is too difficult for them.

It's not that simple and I made that proposal at the beginning of season one after the GbG change. If asked today I would say we keep the LP gain and loss as it actually is. Inno, when making changes, needs to take the entire picture into consideration and not just listen to individual justification for personal reasons and or gain, me included.

The actual ranking system with the actual LP gain and loss works quite well, it's kept simple and it's efficient. Guilds that have to disband and immediately reform, guilds that loses a big amount of their GbG power because they lost players, guilds that have overdone themselves, ... can get where they should be in an acceptable timeframe. This is where this actual system works very well. We also need to remember that a season is 2 weeks, 3 days rest and 11 days fighting. If you half the LP gain a diamond league guild (e.g. Chamaizee on P-server) would need twice the amount of time to get back to diamond league where they belong. Wildfire after failed merge would need twice the amount of time to get back where they should be.

There's also now, after a full 6/7 seasons, a new clear sub-meta with and x-amount of high plat and diamond guilds yo-yoing through the rankings. Yo-yoing is a valid and normal tactic and has always happened from gold till mid-plat, now it's also happing at higher ranking. In my opinion this new sub-meta from the top plats and low diamonds is what's causing some havoc in the rankings but this could resolve itself in the future. High plats and low diamonds yo-yoing may simply need some time to understand gold and low/mid plat gameplay so they can properly control, as big brothers do, their battlegrounds when they sink into mid to low plat or even top gold league battlegrounds for a season.

One last thing for Inno.
C'mon folks, give the silvers and low golds back their GbG toys they can afford, the flags and statues, please. They simply can't afford those actual buildings and wouldn't even know how to properly use them. And those flags and statues did make a difference in silver league and low gold. And I know as I haven't forgotten when I was a silver and low gold.

 

[harold mouse]

The actual ranking system with the actual LP gain and loss works quite well, it's kept simple and it's efficient.

Do you mean the matchmaking system? I don't agree. I think it is now and always has been thoroughly unpleasant, like throwing heavyweights into a ring with Welterweights. If you mean the ranking system, then it is farcical, as it does not accurately reflect guild strength (ideally ranking should also reflect other aspects than GBG, just as the old system did not reflect only GvG).

Guilds that have to disband and immediately reform, guilds that loses a big amount of their GbG power because they lost players, guilds that have overdone themselves, ... can get where they should be in an acceptable timeframe. This is where this actual system works very well. We also need to remember that a season is 2 weeks, 3 days rest and 11 days fighting. If you half the LP gain a diamond league guild (e.g. Chamaizee on P-server) would need twice the amount of time to get back to diamond league where they belong. Wildfire after failed merge would need twice the amount of time to get back where they should be.

Tbh that seems fair enough to me. If guilds break up and reform, or fail in some aspect such as a merger, they should accept there is a cost. It may also help to reduce a season of GBG to one week (maybe five days fighting and two days off), allowing faster movement in the table, but I would still think halving to number of LPs awarded is not enough. In general, as with any game, the closer the matchmaking, matched the better the game. For example, races can still be exciting in the new GBG, as we have found in seasons where random matchmaking has given a decent match.

There's also now, after a full 6/7 seasons, a new clear sub-meta with and x-amount of high plat and diamond guilds yo-yoing through the rankings. Yo-yoing is a valid and normal tactic and has always happened from gold till mid-plat, now it's also happing at higher ranking. In my opinion this new sub-meta from the top plats and low diamonds is what's causing some havoc in the rankings but this could resolve itself in the future. High plats and low diamonds yo-yoing may simply need some time to understand gold and low/mid plat gameplay so they can properly control, as big brothers do, their battlegrounds when they sink into mid to low plat or even top gold league battlegrounds for a season.

But this is the point. It is not a tactic and never was. It is rather something which the game forces on a guild, and always has been. Nor is there any chance of it resolving itself without a change to matchmaking. The difference now is that instead of it being thoroughly unpleasant in all aspects, it gives guilds yo-yoing from lower diamond unfair rewards as compared to stronger guilds, and it gives all yo-yo guilds an absurdly high "ranking" in alternate seasons.

Inno could resolve matchmaking very simply by using the current "ranking" table. Even without changing LPs awarded that would give closer matchmaking in diamond and introduce some balance in rewards. Quite separately they should produce a ranking table which accurately reflects guild strength.

 

[Nidwin]

The game doesn't force anything on any guild, it's the guild's decision to do something in a certain way or not. Yo-yoing is business as usual in gold and up to mid plat because those guilds can't fight on the same level every season. They don't have the guild goods resources to do so and when they go for a big win or nice 2nd spot they end up too high the next season and go for a sink. This is now also happening in higher rankings and that's a perfect valid tactic and a good call from guild leaders or battleground leaders.

 

[Agent327]

This is a thread for feedback to Inno.

Having an endless discussion with one other person is feedback?

 

[harold mouse]

The game doesn't force anything on any guild, it's the guild's decision to do something in a certain way or not. Yo-yoing is business as usual in gold and up to mid plat because those guilds can't fight on the same level every season. They don't have the guild goods resources to do so and when they go for a big win or nice 2nd spot they end up too high the next season and go for a sink.

The guild does not change much from one season to the next, but their opposition is determined by the matchmaking algorithm. They don't have to "go for" a big win. They find themselves against weaker opposition and get a big win doing much the same as any other season. They don't "go for" a sink the next season. They find themselves against much stronger opposition and have no choice in the matter. None of this is the guilds decision; it is how the game works. It is not such a bad thing in lower leagues as it creates variety and it does not much affect how many hits a player can get or his rewards, but it is a bad thing in upper platinum and diamond, because the guild has little option than to suffer one bad season where they make few hits in 1000LP lead because sectors are locked, followed by a dull season making few hits and reaping less rewards in platinum because their opponents are not making hits.

This is now also happening in higher rankings and that's a perfect valid tactic and a good call from guild leaders or battleground leaders.

It always was happening in higher rankings; you will find complaints about it in this forum from 2020. No good guild leaders would follow this as a tactic. because it is simply too painful, unless you are prepared to handicap development of your guildy's cities by alternately taking one season off and doing little the next. If that is what a guild does, finding themselves at No 3 in the "rankings" without a single diamond win is just a joke. The following season they were 48th.

A guild might simply resign itself to the fact that yo-yoing is a part of the game, but for many it is painful. It is a major reason for mergers. When my guild became too strong to remain comfortably in low platinum, the choice would have been either to get strong players to leave (which I did not want to do) or to merge, which we did very successfully. At about the same time two other guilds merged. That did not work. They broke up, both weaker than before they merged. The difference is that it is not now as painful for yo-yo guilds. One of those guilds actually ended up 2nd in the championship with three wins (in lower divisions). But don't call that due to strategy. They did not know beforehand how Inno were going to change GBG, and nor did they plan to be the right cycle to finish near the top rather than ~20th.

The changes to GBG benefit a small number of small guilds, in a very arbitrary way, but they do not make yo-yoing desirable. Another yo-yo guild, with two wins in lower leagues after four seasons took in a huge influx of strong players (not a simple merger as they came from at least two other guilds). They are now probably the fifth strongest guild, and, having also had lucky breaks with the random matchmaking of 1000LP, I would think they find that preferable.

 

[Kev-]

I'm still waiting for the answer to how a Guild can be undefeated in GBG for years yet only P3 in Global GBG ranking Inno............... Come on fix your broken table either rename it or allocate credit for prior VP and Championship wins stop the lnsults to winning Guilds that are marked down due to your broken matching system that gifts easy wins.

 

[Agent327]

I'm still waiting for the answer to how a Guild can be undefeated in GBG for years yet only P3 in Global GBG ranking Inno...............

Others got more victory points????

 

[Kev-]

Others got more victory points????

Only because ejits at inno wiped the slate and don't count champ wins or atribute points to wins, likewise they annul prior VP scored so how is that a Global ranking when it resets with every Championship.

 

[Agent327]

Only because ejits at inno wiped the slate and don't count champ wins or atribute points to wins, likewise they annul prior VP scored so how is that a Global ranking when it resets with every Championship.

You spelled eejits wrong and it is a global ranking that starts fresh at the beginning of a new Chanpionship. Something you can come accross in a lot of sports.

 

[Kev-]

So it is not a global ranking at all which is peoples arguement. It is a current championship table, no more than that and as such Inno should either reflect global standing or rename.

 

[Agent327]

So it is not a global ranking at all which is peoples arguement. It is a current championship table, no more than that and as such Inno should either reflect global standing or rename.

And that argument needs to be repeated over and over again?????

At the moment it reflects global standing the way Inno wants it to, so there is no reason to rename it. They might as well call it The Mickey Mouse Championship and that still would not change a thing.

 

[Vesiger]

Oh, hey, this forum has an ignore feature! Cool!

@Agent327 : Congratulations. You are the first person EVER, in any forum, I put on ignore. You can be proud of yourself.

He has been the one poster I have on ignore for years - I thought he had been banned and can't believe he has come back (or that anyone could conceivably imagine that his behaviour resembles that of any official moderator)!

 

[Agent327]

He has been the one poster I have on ignore for years

And miss all the fun?

(or that anyone could conceivably imagine that his behaviour resembles that of any official moderator)!

I have been one, just not here.

 

[Grof Z]

There is NO NEED to report any issues with Agent / Koi .. as they wont do a single thing about it ...
as per new FORUM RULES - Trolls are allowed

 

[Grof Z]

 

[Grof Z]

So its no longer - TAG @Kyrael ... but ... its now - Report

 

[Emberguard]

So its no longer - TAG @Kyrael ... but ... its now - Report

I know from experience it’s much easier on the moderation side to find a report or PM than it is to find a notification

Aside from which, they are having issues with the notification system not working properly at the moment. So a report is a good idea to get their attention if you’re requesting moderation action on something, while a PM would also be appropriate if you need to ask something but don’t need moderator action taken


Post in thread 'Forum changes'
https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/forum-changes.46554/post-467372

Just an update here, I seem to have an issue with my notifications currently, and am not being notified of @Kyrael tags. I will investigate this, but in the mean time, please either reply to a post of mine if possible or send a DM.
Thank you!

 

[I Am The Cat]

I play solo in one world and as part of a guild in another. Are there any plans to make things a bit fairer for solo players? At the moment it's not really possible for us to compete fairly in GbG. Could we not be separated out from the multi-member guilds? We start out at an immediate disadvantage by not being able to play round the clock and it's downhill from there really. And although the goods required for the field camps are less than for larger guilds, the cost is still extortionate and still impossible for most lone players. We don't seem to have been considered in any part of the game even though there are a lot of us.

 

[Agent327]

I play solo in one world and as part of a guild in another. Are there any plans to make things a bit fairer for solo players? At the moment it's not really possible for us to compete fairly in GbG. Could we not be separated out from the multi-member guilds? We start out at an immediate disadvantage by not being able to play round the clock and it's downhill from there really. And although the goods required for the field camps are less than for larger guilds, the cost is still extortionate and still impossible for most lone players. We don't seem to have been considered in any part of the game even though there are a lot of us.

It is guild battlegrounds, not solo battlegrounds. Yes, you can start a solo guild, but that is only cause someone has to start the guild. Part of FoE is the social aspect. There is nothing social about solo guilds. Guild size has no influence on GBG. You can be a solo guild, or a guild of 78. If your league points match you can run in to eachother. That is what is considered to be fair.

 

[harold mouse]

He has been the one poster I have on ignore for years - I thought he had been banned

Doubtless he should have been.

(or that anyone could conceivably imagine that his behaviour resembles that of any official moderator)!

That may be inconceivable, but it is not as inconceivable as the notion that the stream off inanities to which we are subjected, showing identical views and behaviour, could come from more than one source, particularly when one takes into account that one starts when the other stops.