Tanmay11
Warrant Officer
no its not a german company. but wouldnt it just be possible to let the person who reported know that it was a valid report?
-
Dear forum reader,
To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account, you need a forum account. You can REGISTER HERE!
Please ensure a translation into English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.
-
We are looking for you! Always wanted to join our Support or Forum Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
Take a look at our recruitment page for more information and how you can apply:
Push Accounts
- Thread starter Andrew420
- Start date
DeletedUser276
That would open the doors of besmirching a player. Think of it as office politics, while the employees (players) may gossip in private, the supervisors cant and wont comment on HR complaints. Especially ongoing investigations. By the time a mod realizes a complaint is valid the player may see missing gbs or other things. The paperwork for giving penalties is immense. And thats for a volunteering player. Plus if a player is cheating with others then the workload is huge. There were many days I pulled 26-30 hour shifts following a trail of bread crumbs across multipul accounts. That was my choice as with the rest of my workload if I stayed a basic shift time would have taken me 3 weeks to sort through. My salary at the time was enough for a cup of tea a day. Most of the mods are volunteer. While you may see a quick reply as a small thing adding it to the ammount of work coupled with getting not 1 complaint but multipul complaints for different players against multiple other players it adds up. Plus any ramifications of a mod saying its valid and the complaining player potentially spouting off ingame to said players guild or friends, it starts a snowball effect that more times than less hits mods in the eye trying to descalate the situation. Thats why I worded the rules very carefully when they were sent in for review. I understand that some people want more info, but its usually best to just have fun with the game to avoid potential issues.
DeletedUser5180
if a gb is removed what happens to the fps invested by genuine players on the current level, do they get returned as fp packs to the investor.?
DeletedUser12400
Of course not
DeletedUser6065
I fully believe this. Long ago Remorce (Blacksmith) wrote out a short list of some of the things examined to determine push accounts. Just the few things listed could indeed take a good while to adequately examine, especially looking at players on multiple worlds (IMO).
. . . mk
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser276
lol it was a very short list as I couldnt discuss the tools involved as it would show players how to skirt the system. thats why I had rule of thumb its an hour per player investigated, that includes checking every player investing in the gb. Mikes claim is very valid for a timeline if you look at my quote...
DeletedUser108673
Slightly off topic i guess but are you allowed cross world fp swaps if its not pushing???
Example i am active and my city is growing on 2 different worlds i have the same friend on both worlds can i "donate" 100 fps to his gb on world 1 and him donate 100 fps to my gb on world 2???
Example i am active and my city is growing on 2 different worlds i have the same friend on both worlds can i "donate" 100 fps to his gb on world 1 and him donate 100 fps to my gb on world 2???
DeletedUser5180
Mo
No, this is classed as cross world trading and not allowed
DeletedUser
Regarding showing banned users - warning long post but situation provided.
All this talk on naming and shaming users I don't think people actually realise how much trouble you can get into. Data Protection Laws are exactly what they state LAW therefore it's applicable to both companies and individuals.
In the UK we never signed to be part of the EU don't get confused with the EEU which we are apart of and in fact UK parliament are debating at this very time if we should fully join the EU. However our main reason for not joining is we didn't want our laws dictated to us by Brussels (European Parliament) and therefore that's why the UK is bound by UK laws.
We have the Data Protection Act 1998 which is VERY SERIOUS if you are found to have broken this law fines are unlimited and you could face upto 5 years in prison or both. UK Data Protection is governed by the Information Commissioners Office (ICO). Although individuals are not required to register, companies have to register and the registry is made public also those who have broken the law is also made public.
Now more importantly Germany is part of the EU and governed by EU Laws and Directives. In this instance the EU has incorporated human rights into it's directive, I assume this was done because should any person have their personal data released without consent they could file a law suit under the Data Protection Directive and European Law on Human Rights. With respect to InnoGames and in fact anyone in Europe COMPANY or INDIVIDUAL - MUST accept the UK Data Protection Act 1998 if based or living in the UK or the rest of Europe should follow EU Directive 95/46/EC which states the following;
The right to privacy is a highly developed area of law in Europe. All the member states of the European Union (EU) are also signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights(ECHR). Article 8 of the ECHR provides a right to respect for one's "private and family life, his home and his correspondence", subject to certain restrictions. The European Court of Human Rights has given this article a very broad interpretation in its jurisprudence.
In 1980, in an effort to create a comprehensive data protection system throughout Europe, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) issued its "Recommendations of the Council Concerning Guidelines Governing the Protection of Privacy and Trans-Border Flows of Personal Data". The seven principles governing the OECD’s recommendations for protection of personal data were:
1. Notice—data subjects should be given notice when their data is being collected;
2. Purpose—data should only be used for the purpose stated and not for any other purposes;
3. Consent—data should not be disclosed without the data subject’s consent;
4. Security—collected data should be kept secure from any potential abuses;
5. Disclosure—data subjects should be informed as to who is collecting their data;
6. Access—data subjects should be allowed to access their data and make corrections to any inaccurate data; and
7. Accountability—data subjects should have a method available to them to hold data collectors accountable for not following the above principles.
Just so you know when you sign up to InnoGames FoE the screen name you select is actually an extension of your personal information. So should InnoGames post or make public a username/player that has been banned is actually a direct VIOLATION of EU Directive 95/46/EC Sections 2 and 3. There actually could be only one way that InnoGames could post or make public the information is if they received written consent from the owner of that information (so the player). However the DPO (Data Protection Officer) has the final say, period. So should such consent arrive on their desk the company policy or his/hers decision can still be NO and no one can override that decision not even a higher ranking member of staff as he or she has been named as the designated Data Protection Officer.
In order to investigate certain actions in the game or assist people the Data Protection Office will have given a blanket consent for moderators to see personal information. Now lower ranked moderators may only see partial information whilst high ranking members may see more detailed information and that's why they can view your information without any problems, however should they post any of it then it's a whole world of trouble.
Fact is since the username is an extension of the users personal information publicly posting banned users and/or their reasons for said ban would be a direct violation of EU Directive 95/46/EC Sections 1, 2 and 3 as I'm sure they would not inform the user of the posting. However even if they did they would still be breaching sections 2 and 3.
InnoGames ToS and Privacy policy is an extension to the EU Directive, when you sign up you agree to follow the ToS and Privacy Policy, you don't exactly have a choice to follow the law or not. It should also be mentioned that it's common practice for players to exchange personal information whilst it's not a good idea people still do it. So with that in the mix notifying the community and wider audience that a user has been banned could effect that user from harassment from someone they have given personal information to and also it's common practice for players to use the screen name on multiple games and could cause a knock on effect.
With all that being said EU Directives or German Law which will just be very similar like the UK's version maybe sketchy on some aspects of the username and that's why companies put in a privacy policy to cover them and more importantly YOU! So asking for a name and shame or asking if such player has been banned don't expect the answer your looking for as more than likely you will get something like 'Sorry due to our Privacy Policy, EU Directives and German Laws etc...) I mention German Law as some German Laws may cover things the EU Directive has missed. I'm not 100% sure but I think the way it works is EU Countries follow the EU Directives but still have the option to fall back on their own laws if needed.
Never-the-less EU Directive 95/46/EC prevents InnoGames from making public any personal information such as a ban and/if provided a reason why. In addition InnoGames Privacy Policy is an extension and you are bound by it for as long as your a member. However InnoGames has already said they will provide you with the information they hold on you, if not, this can be obtained either by a Subject Access Request or Freedom for Information Request, EU Directive 95/46/EC Section 6.
REMEMBER Data Protection Laws apply to both Companies AND Individuals which means YOU! are bound by them too! Every country has a Data Protection Legislation so saying I'm in such and such country won't work. Plus in this instance YOU are bound by EU Directives and German Laws.
To make it simple, just because you can assault someone in Africa (selected as outside of Europe - not saying you can just an example) and nothing will happen to you doesn't mean you can come to Europe and do the same. If you do you are bound by the laws in which country the assault took place and that countries police force can request to have you extradited back to that country to face the charges. In retrospect you are bound by InnoGames Privacy Policy, Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions and most importantly EU Directive 95/46/EC, possibly Germany's version of it and your own countries version of it. Fact is personal data is highly sensitive and if it is miss-handled in anyway there could be large law suits against a company or an INDIVIDUAL that means YOU, so should you find out why someone got banned and posted it ANYWHERE that player/person can persue you for civil damages and whichever law it comes under will come after you for Criminal Charges.
Don't take people's information lightly!
Sorry for the long post but this should finally close the debate.
Dread
All this talk on naming and shaming users I don't think people actually realise how much trouble you can get into. Data Protection Laws are exactly what they state LAW therefore it's applicable to both companies and individuals.
In the UK we never signed to be part of the EU don't get confused with the EEU which we are apart of and in fact UK parliament are debating at this very time if we should fully join the EU. However our main reason for not joining is we didn't want our laws dictated to us by Brussels (European Parliament) and therefore that's why the UK is bound by UK laws.
We have the Data Protection Act 1998 which is VERY SERIOUS if you are found to have broken this law fines are unlimited and you could face upto 5 years in prison or both. UK Data Protection is governed by the Information Commissioners Office (ICO). Although individuals are not required to register, companies have to register and the registry is made public also those who have broken the law is also made public.
Now more importantly Germany is part of the EU and governed by EU Laws and Directives. In this instance the EU has incorporated human rights into it's directive, I assume this was done because should any person have their personal data released without consent they could file a law suit under the Data Protection Directive and European Law on Human Rights. With respect to InnoGames and in fact anyone in Europe COMPANY or INDIVIDUAL - MUST accept the UK Data Protection Act 1998 if based or living in the UK or the rest of Europe should follow EU Directive 95/46/EC which states the following;
The right to privacy is a highly developed area of law in Europe. All the member states of the European Union (EU) are also signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights(ECHR). Article 8 of the ECHR provides a right to respect for one's "private and family life, his home and his correspondence", subject to certain restrictions. The European Court of Human Rights has given this article a very broad interpretation in its jurisprudence.
In 1980, in an effort to create a comprehensive data protection system throughout Europe, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) issued its "Recommendations of the Council Concerning Guidelines Governing the Protection of Privacy and Trans-Border Flows of Personal Data". The seven principles governing the OECD’s recommendations for protection of personal data were:
1. Notice—data subjects should be given notice when their data is being collected;
2. Purpose—data should only be used for the purpose stated and not for any other purposes;
3. Consent—data should not be disclosed without the data subject’s consent;
4. Security—collected data should be kept secure from any potential abuses;
5. Disclosure—data subjects should be informed as to who is collecting their data;
6. Access—data subjects should be allowed to access their data and make corrections to any inaccurate data; and
7. Accountability—data subjects should have a method available to them to hold data collectors accountable for not following the above principles.
Just so you know when you sign up to InnoGames FoE the screen name you select is actually an extension of your personal information. So should InnoGames post or make public a username/player that has been banned is actually a direct VIOLATION of EU Directive 95/46/EC Sections 2 and 3. There actually could be only one way that InnoGames could post or make public the information is if they received written consent from the owner of that information (so the player). However the DPO (Data Protection Officer) has the final say, period. So should such consent arrive on their desk the company policy or his/hers decision can still be NO and no one can override that decision not even a higher ranking member of staff as he or she has been named as the designated Data Protection Officer.
In order to investigate certain actions in the game or assist people the Data Protection Office will have given a blanket consent for moderators to see personal information. Now lower ranked moderators may only see partial information whilst high ranking members may see more detailed information and that's why they can view your information without any problems, however should they post any of it then it's a whole world of trouble.
Fact is since the username is an extension of the users personal information publicly posting banned users and/or their reasons for said ban would be a direct violation of EU Directive 95/46/EC Sections 1, 2 and 3 as I'm sure they would not inform the user of the posting. However even if they did they would still be breaching sections 2 and 3.
InnoGames ToS and Privacy policy is an extension to the EU Directive, when you sign up you agree to follow the ToS and Privacy Policy, you don't exactly have a choice to follow the law or not. It should also be mentioned that it's common practice for players to exchange personal information whilst it's not a good idea people still do it. So with that in the mix notifying the community and wider audience that a user has been banned could effect that user from harassment from someone they have given personal information to and also it's common practice for players to use the screen name on multiple games and could cause a knock on effect.
With all that being said EU Directives or German Law which will just be very similar like the UK's version maybe sketchy on some aspects of the username and that's why companies put in a privacy policy to cover them and more importantly YOU! So asking for a name and shame or asking if such player has been banned don't expect the answer your looking for as more than likely you will get something like 'Sorry due to our Privacy Policy, EU Directives and German Laws etc...) I mention German Law as some German Laws may cover things the EU Directive has missed. I'm not 100% sure but I think the way it works is EU Countries follow the EU Directives but still have the option to fall back on their own laws if needed.
Never-the-less EU Directive 95/46/EC prevents InnoGames from making public any personal information such as a ban and/if provided a reason why. In addition InnoGames Privacy Policy is an extension and you are bound by it for as long as your a member. However InnoGames has already said they will provide you with the information they hold on you, if not, this can be obtained either by a Subject Access Request or Freedom for Information Request, EU Directive 95/46/EC Section 6.
REMEMBER Data Protection Laws apply to both Companies AND Individuals which means YOU! are bound by them too! Every country has a Data Protection Legislation so saying I'm in such and such country won't work. Plus in this instance YOU are bound by EU Directives and German Laws.
To make it simple, just because you can assault someone in Africa (selected as outside of Europe - not saying you can just an example) and nothing will happen to you doesn't mean you can come to Europe and do the same. If you do you are bound by the laws in which country the assault took place and that countries police force can request to have you extradited back to that country to face the charges. In retrospect you are bound by InnoGames Privacy Policy, Terms of Service or Terms and Conditions and most importantly EU Directive 95/46/EC, possibly Germany's version of it and your own countries version of it. Fact is personal data is highly sensitive and if it is miss-handled in anyway there could be large law suits against a company or an INDIVIDUAL that means YOU, so should you find out why someone got banned and posted it ANYWHERE that player/person can persue you for civil damages and whichever law it comes under will come after you for Criminal Charges.
Don't take people's information lightly!
Sorry for the long post but this should finally close the debate.
Dread
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser276
Yeah thats a long winded technical explanation of my post, you can see my office politics example in there. The UK part wasnt needed as a company is tied to the laws where thier servers are located. If things are that bad in Germany (German privacy laws are more strict than EU laws) imagin what its like for companies with servers in multipul countries around the globe. Thanks dread, Law is my fortie but with typing these out on a ps4 its a bit much lol. My specialty is criminal law so business law im rusty on. Good job mate.
DeletedUser
Sorry Remorce I must of missed your post. I'm actually a DPO but that's only because I know the security wrapped around our servers.
Your kind of right on the servers but the Data Protection is applicable to a legal entity so either a company or individual, the servers only come into play during an investigation and if found that the servers are in breach of the Data Protection in fact at that point both countries can go after them.
There was an issue with WHMCS having UK based servers and all their credit card information was taken off their servers and to make it worse it was zipped up and made public. The fact is the data needs to be PCI Compliant simply encrypting the data with say a common MD5 and SALT making it a two part encryption is very easily cracked. You need to follow the PCI Compliance Guidelines to be 100% safe when protecting users information.
WHMCS tried to make the argument I think in 6th Circuit Court that because the servers were hosted in the UK and not the US they were not liable, it was thrown out almost immediately and they were heavily fined. There was also an issue with Digital Point I think that was a PCI Compliance issue aswell I'm not sure but I think they had data stolen, they are probably one of the biggest forums on the Internet and I can't remember but the owner (won't mention the name although it's in the press) was jailed I don't remember their being a fine. However in that case the company hosted the servers.
I don't really know law all that well but when it comes to Data Protection Laws and Compliance I pretty much know the ins and outs. We hold literally billions of lines of personal information which is encased around multiple firewalls and on top of that known threats are automatically banned. Server access can only be obtained from a single location and 3 failed attempts at a 20 alphanumeric password will ban that IP which then becomes a massive headache for me as I have to sort it out lol.
But with over 50 servers hosted in one of the UK's largest data centres with 4 1TB Primary Backbone Internet Access direct to the IXP.
Our Websites sit on a Content Delivery Network boosting threat assessments adding additional firewalls ICMP flood defence and DoS defence in 24 data centres around the world. So yeah not only am I the DPO but primarily my role is Director of Global Operations. DPA requests in the UK come directly from the police force in the form of a RIPA which is graded 1 to 3 where 1 is imminent danger to life and 3 within two weeks. The reason I mentioned the UK is to explain how Data Protection Laws vary, whist after receiving a verified RIPA I can provide the information. The whole process takes 15 minutes, if a request for information came from Germany I would have to goto court and swear under oath the information I'm providing is true, I hand it over, it's stamped and in and out within 15 minutes.
Another reason to mention the UK because we're not part of the EU but are part of the EEC (European Economic Community). I thought it might be a great way to demonstrate the difference between a collective of countries and a country by itself and that although the UK does not follow or bound by EU Laws we are as soon as a service is provided to us in the EU Zone.
Sorry another long post and oh yeah I forgot to say 'your welcome' I can't imagine doing this on any game console lol, I'm on a pad which is fast but not as fast as a computer lol.
Regards
Dread
Your kind of right on the servers but the Data Protection is applicable to a legal entity so either a company or individual, the servers only come into play during an investigation and if found that the servers are in breach of the Data Protection in fact at that point both countries can go after them.
There was an issue with WHMCS having UK based servers and all their credit card information was taken off their servers and to make it worse it was zipped up and made public. The fact is the data needs to be PCI Compliant simply encrypting the data with say a common MD5 and SALT making it a two part encryption is very easily cracked. You need to follow the PCI Compliance Guidelines to be 100% safe when protecting users information.
WHMCS tried to make the argument I think in 6th Circuit Court that because the servers were hosted in the UK and not the US they were not liable, it was thrown out almost immediately and they were heavily fined. There was also an issue with Digital Point I think that was a PCI Compliance issue aswell I'm not sure but I think they had data stolen, they are probably one of the biggest forums on the Internet and I can't remember but the owner (won't mention the name although it's in the press) was jailed I don't remember their being a fine. However in that case the company hosted the servers.
I don't really know law all that well but when it comes to Data Protection Laws and Compliance I pretty much know the ins and outs. We hold literally billions of lines of personal information which is encased around multiple firewalls and on top of that known threats are automatically banned. Server access can only be obtained from a single location and 3 failed attempts at a 20 alphanumeric password will ban that IP which then becomes a massive headache for me as I have to sort it out lol.
But with over 50 servers hosted in one of the UK's largest data centres with 4 1TB Primary Backbone Internet Access direct to the IXP.
Our Websites sit on a Content Delivery Network boosting threat assessments adding additional firewalls ICMP flood defence and DoS defence in 24 data centres around the world. So yeah not only am I the DPO but primarily my role is Director of Global Operations. DPA requests in the UK come directly from the police force in the form of a RIPA which is graded 1 to 3 where 1 is imminent danger to life and 3 within two weeks. The reason I mentioned the UK is to explain how Data Protection Laws vary, whist after receiving a verified RIPA I can provide the information. The whole process takes 15 minutes, if a request for information came from Germany I would have to goto court and swear under oath the information I'm providing is true, I hand it over, it's stamped and in and out within 15 minutes.
Another reason to mention the UK because we're not part of the EU but are part of the EEC (European Economic Community). I thought it might be a great way to demonstrate the difference between a collective of countries and a country by itself and that although the UK does not follow or bound by EU Laws we are as soon as a service is provided to us in the EU Zone.
Sorry another long post and oh yeah I forgot to say 'your welcome' I can't imagine doing this on any game console lol, I'm on a pad which is fast but not as fast as a computer lol.
Regards
Dread
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser6974
you will see that a lot in my guild, i run our GB Club, all members that signed up add 30 FP's to each players GB of choice then move on to the next one. so each club member's GB gains 30 fp's from each player. 10 members everybodies GB gains 300 FP's when the round is done, then we start a new round and do it all over again. if a certain player is after the bp's from a certain Gb they will go back and add more fp's to go for the BP's. its not pushing, its just helping GB's grow without having to add a lot of your own fp's and everybody benefits the same.
DeletedUser7719
Yes, but what Akbhoy is describing is when one player gets 3000+ FP, but sees very little/none being donated back from that player.
DeletedUser6974
thats happening a lot across all servers and worlds, players are selling goods in exchange for FP's. i know of players stocking goods 2 and 3 ages ahead of their current age just buy buying them for FP's. They dont see FP's coming back because they are swapping goods behind the scenes.
Tanmay11
Warrant Officer
i dont think its goods for fps either.
its more like this - 5-10 account donating with very low age cities on multiple levels and gbs
Last edited:
DeletedUser6974
right, in those cases FOE could easily determine if they were push accounts since the other players city was not growing in age or goods so they were deleted. but the other cases originally brought up in this thread are legit such as several players adding 30 fp's per gb or fp's being added but we couldnt see goods being swapped like FOE can see.