Placements in advanced neighbourhoods.

[DeletedUser110648]

Apologies, I imagine this has been raised a lot, but I have only started playing this year - and more information would be nice.

I put a ticket in, but they said everything is within parameters and nothing can be done, fair enough.

But does anyone else feel that it can be highly unfair in matching people for neighbourhoods? I just reached Industrial Age, and have the two Goods technologies researched, and Riflemen. But a few days after, the neighbourhood switch came, and having been in a mixed Ina/CA hood, I expected a fully InA hood, with the occasional person hopping up to PE as they've waited, and gives them an edge - fair play.

But over half my neighbourhood are highly advanced, almost ME people. I can tell, because even the rank #30ish person has High-Rise buildings, one of the last technologies of the Progressive Era. I have literally only just scratched into InA, but apparently I make a good match for people almost at ME. I've been told that people are matched based on, 'FPs spent on research, and their current Age', and that two different Ages can be matched together.

As I've advanced, I've noticed people with say, 1.3mil points, sitting in LMA/CA, and they are the top person by 1-1.2mil points over the next person. Why aren't those people placed into highly advanced neighbourhoods? One guy i spoke to had never been put in a higher neighbourhood than his current age, CA - even with a huge GB list (Arc, Dyna, Innovation Tower, etc.), many Level 10+, 1.3mil points - he always landed in a CA neighbourhood. yet it seems every time I just reach an Age, I get placed into a much more difficult situation.

I don't know about further Ages, my most advanced world is InA. But it seems the gap between units - their bonuses, ranges, movement, and mix of advantages/disadvantages - between InA and PE, is huge, bigger than what I've experienced before. The whole battlefield changes. If I get attacked with someone using PE units, they literally dictate the field we fight on - I cannot fight on terrain that works for my units. I can move all of 4-5 tiles, and stepping on anything other than plains is horrendously impairing. So my units can't even fight on the terrain they are meant for.

I'm just so confused, annoyed, and slowly realizing that being active is a curse. My last two/three hood changes have seriously put me at a disadvantage (as soon as I hit CA, one tech researched, I was put into a mostly InA hood, where again, people were almost at PE). I know the game isn't meant to be plain sailing, but it seems ridiculous that somehow I'm being forced to either rush to PE (I like advancing, but now I can't take time to level my GBs), or just lose battles and get plundered. Some people have it worse than me, read some who were 2-3 Ages behind.

It just seems so conducive to making people quit. If that's how the system works, then there's nothing I can do, as I said, fair enough. But now I can truly see why people quit - I like the game, but I can sympathise with those who just give up because they don't stand a chance. Is there anything we, as players, can do to try and appeal to Inno to make changes to the current system? Why are the people who sit in an Age and level their GBs not being placed in more difficult neighbourhoods, and why do people who advance quicker get put in more difficult, unfair situations? It would take me 3-4 weeks to get to PE, that's with zero FPs put into making my GBs level up - and with the Continent Map provinces receiving ever higher defender bonuses - I see it as being expected to do both, but not given the time or fair playing field to work with. I either rush to PE (and get put in ME/PME neighbourhood), or get constantly attacked/plundered, and just be able to do nothing about it.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

From the announcement of the current Neighborhood Merging System: "The only criteria that will now be taken into account is era and the amount of Forge Points spent in the techtree. This means, that normally, right after the merging occurs, there should be no differences in age within a single neighborhood (with an exception of very new game worlds as well as 14 neighborhoods per world where two different eras will meet)." (forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/new-neighborhood-merging-system.32938/)

So, obviously, you've had the bad fortune of being placed as one from the lower age in one of the fourteen mixed neighborhoods. I don't know if spent FPs are a part of the equation for these neighborhoods. However, even if it is, some will have hoarded FPs, in order to rush toward the next age immediately after the merge. That eliminates the effect of the limitation. I'd say this explains your situation.

I have no doubt that it sucks. The good news is that the likelihood of ending up in one of fourteen neighborhoods is very low, so your next one should be normal. You just have to hang in there for two weeks. You may be short on goods for a while, unless you collect on time, but other than that, you should be able to play normally. Rather than rushing ahead, I would recommend that you lower your ambitions slightly, and focus on GBs, core technologies, and city planning, so you'll have a good position in your next neighborhood. Rushing ahead will just put you at the bottom there as well, which would really suck.

This is a game of long term strategy, and the next merge is less than two weeks away. In the scope of the game, that's not very long.

 

[DeletedUser109475]

As I've advanced, I've noticed people with say, 1.3mil points, sitting in LMA/CA, and they are the top person by 1-1.2mil points over the next person. Why aren't those people placed into highly advanced neighbourhoods? One guy i spoke to had never been put in a higher neighbourhood than his current age, CA - even with a huge GB list (Arc, Dyna, Innovation Tower, etc.), many Level 10+, 1.3mil points - he always landed in a CA neighbourhood. yet it seems every time I just reach an Age, I get placed into a much more difficult situation.

Well it's a strategy game, some see a strategy as chasing through the tech tree as quickly as possible, jumping up an era with little or no stock of forge points and grinding up through the tech using their hourly/daily fp collections. Some have little or nothing in the way of GB's and can't obtain boosted deposits due to not having the ability to fight on the continent map and having little or no goods to negotiate or trade with.

Others take the opposite approach and hunker down in an era for long periods and invest their fp into GB's and swap deals. In doing so they can develop their GB's to higher levels, build higher era GB's through fp/goods deals, stockpile goods, supplies and coins and be a far stronger lower era player rather than a weaker higher era one.

Personally I never jump eras unless I have enough fp packs to research half the tech in one go in order to upgrade a mix of residential, military and goods GB's though in my neighbourhood it's apparent that many don't think that way as they are still producing goods from two or three eras previous and have barracks that are at least one era down from their town hall. I feel these players are reactive in that they respond to the immediate needs for the tech tree rather than being proactive by looking at what they will need today, tomorrow and further into the future.

Perhaps the "difficult situation" scenario which many describe is down to their style of gameplay as much as Inno hood reshuffles.

 

[DeletedUser108179]

There are two extracts I'm looking at:
a) "... as soon as I hit CA, one tech researched, I was put into a mostly InA hood, where again, people were almost at PE"
b) ""The only criteria that will now be taken into account is era and the amount of Forge Points spent in the techtree. This means, that normally, right after the merging occurs, there should be no differences in age within a single neighborhood" (supposedly an Inno statement)

My comment: Since those numerous complaints are mostly resulting out of placement into Hoods with players having far apart Tech progress giving unfair advantages in PvP (Hood attacks) ... then players with same Tech progress ahould be placed together.

This leaves only two conculsions:
a) Inno talks bollox and can't get it right placing players into one Hood having done same progress in Tech advance
(which is a simple programming to do, no fancy and complicated program needed)
b) Inno isn't bothered and not willing to do so - otherwise their programmers could have done in a flash to sort it.

 

[DeletedUser109475]

A percentage of players will always know how to best play a hood shuffle, it takes a little bit of thought and pre planning but it's not difficult to do. Fp packs are the main requirement and patience to not jump eras too early thereby having sufficient goods, coins and supplies to support a healthy building spree.

I've logged off on a Sunday, been shuffled, login again around 3am game time (as I'm up early for work anyway) and jump eras then upgrade buildings. Within an hour I have gone up an era with 3/4 of the tech researched, planted expansions, higher era housing and barracks along with goods buildings. Anyone visiting say 18-20 hours after the shuffle would assume I had been in that era a while as they will be looking at buildings from way up that higher era tech when in truth it's all literally brand new and about to start a first production run. I've genuinely achieved that between a hood shuffle and calculation time on the same day more than once.

As a Traz owner I soon get troop stocks and simply unlock all available spots with gold as a quick start to the best possible army I can produce quickly. The fact I can back them up with a healthy attack bonus and a DA with over 450% def boost means most of a new hood can't beat my DA even if I leave the lower era troops in place.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

The statement isn't "supposedly" anything; I provided a link, leading straight to Inno's announcement. Once something is documented, it's no longer "supposed"; it's then a fact.

The answer to your question is:
"b) Inno isn't bothered and not willing to do so"

The reason is quite simply that the whining crybabies are wrong. It isn't unfair that superior strategic choices give your neighbor an advantage.

The game is large enough that you could probably be placed with people whose tech trees are completely identical to yours, whose speed of progress is virtually identical, and who are exactly as active/inactive at PvP as you. That would, however, remove strategic competition as a factor in the neighborhoods. I believe it has been pointed out somewhere that this is a strategy game. If not: It's a strategy game!

The fact is, everyone in the same age is at the approximate same place on the tech tree. When Inno considers "era and the amount of Forge Points spent in the techtree", that means that mixed era neighborhoods will still have approximately the same spread in FPs spent on the techtree as single era neighborhoods.

That means that our OP may have been exaggerating a bit when he wrote "... as soon as I hit CA, one tech researched, I was put into a mostly InA hood, where again, people were almost at PE". He may have been somewhat further than that, and his neighbors certainly weren't that advanced, at least not at the very moment the merge happened. That's OK; exaggerating is something we've all been guilty of, one time or another, especially when we're frustrated.

Like me, many of his neighbors probably wouldn't change era until after the merge happened, and then only if they could research core technologies instantly, using FP packs, and had everything ready (plans and resources) to reorganize and upgrade their city. That means that, even in an unmixed neighborhood, you may find yourself up against players who are nearly through the next era.

You're right: Inno knows this, they aren't bothered by it, and they won't change it more than they already have.

The current merging system already helps the inept quite a bit. When it came, I actually agreed with it, others merely grumbled mildly, and only some few protested wildly. However, a complete elimination of strategic advantages in neighborhood merges will result in serious protest from a lot of players.

What you're complaining about is not an error, it's a game feature. More precisely, it's a strategy feature.

 

[DeletedUser14881]

Something that could be done when shuffling the neighborhood is taking in account the individual playstyle of players.

For example, it's not because I play this game for years now that I enjoy or bother gathering knowledge of all the aspects of it. I hate battling, sectors or PvP, it's boring and not rewarding. GE on the other hand is awesome and I don't "hurt" anyone's entertainment by playing it alone so, so why should I stay in a neighborhood with other players addicted to battling, that constantly plunder those playing more casually, taking away resources that come from humongous buildings (in later ages) and are very hard to get?

If one gets frustrated because some players, stronger or more experienced, are making profit with their hard work, what's gonna happen? They'll abandon the game and every leaving is one less potential "customer" to Inno.

Of course, one, two, three quitters is not a big deal but think about it on larger scale.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

A strategy game is supposed to provide challenges, difficulties, and even outright unpleasant consequences of poor strategic choices. Not developing your city's defenses is a poor strategic choice. Putting players with different styles together is what provides challenges and rewards for everyone. True, this particular feature is more challenge to some players, and more reward to others, but that's the case with all challenges in the game.

The fact is, though, that plunderers put much more hard work into getting your resources, than you put into making them.

Then there's the fact that Inno wants players to log in often. The threat of plundering forces players to check in, and every moment spent in the game is a moment when the player might spend diamonds. In fact, the more inconvenient it is to log in at the time, the more likely that the player will collect resources automatically, which costs diamonds. Then there are the looters, who spend even more time logged in because of this feature. With diamonds involved, I doubt it'll change anytime soon.

Edit: Grammatical error fixed.​

 

[DeletedUser14881]

I know that, but that was indeed a well worded point-of-view

 

[Vesiger]

The fact is, though, that plunderers put much more hard work into getting your resources, than you put into making them.

Hmm... In my experience, most 'professional' plunderers only attack where they are certain of an overwhelmingly easy victory, and retreat if they can't win at once :-P

 

[DeletedUser110131]

@Vesiger Certainly, if they think they'll lose a substantial number of troops, most will withdraw. I usually won't, but I'm nuts. Some may also be pressed for time, and can't spend it on a manual battle.

Whether they attack for loot, tower points, or both, it's about the numbers; they need to win a large number of battles. If they loose enough troops, they'll have to wait for healing/recruitment before attacking again, which can cost them a large number of wins. Even one or two lost troops per battle can cause problems, if they don't have a high level Traz or lots of troop buildings.

Still, I've seen some make a valiant effort to overcome my defenses, which anyone can tell will probably fail, and certainly be costly. However, even those who only take sure wins on auto battle, still put in more work than the two clicks it takes to start a production, and, very generously, they also save the owner the click to collect.

Those fighting PvP will prefer hard battles, which can really rake in the tower points. I'm certainly delighted when I find a robust defense. I know some who will refrain from plundering if, and only if, they get a lot of tower points.

 

[Andrew420]

The fact is, though, that plunderers put much more hard work into getting your resources, than you put into making them.

Its really hard work being placed in a hood full of lazy players who don't collect on time or are in bad guilds that don't motivate their buildings
Maybe my definition of work differs from yours but nothing about this game reminds me of work

 

[DeletedUser107476]

To be honest the hood system is a lot fairer now than it was. Before you were often in with players two or more eras above, sometimes 10 era's above your current era. In those circumstances it is completely unfair. The system now pits you against a lot nearer players era wise than before.

 

[DeletedUser110131]

Its really hard work being placed in a hood full of lazy players who don't collect on time

Absolutely exhausting, yes.

"Work" is a versatile word. I can mean anything from "altering" ("I'm working on my manners") to "exhausting activity done only out of necessity". You can work in a coal mine, or on your stamp collection. FoE is a lot closer to "stamp collection" than to "coal mine", even though most people would prefer coal mining over stamp collecting, and FoE over coal mining.