Neighbourhoods have to be revisited.. (re: attacking)

[DeletedUser]

So well all know that pretty much the only way to win the top tier pvp towers these days is to farm 30+ players in your neighbourhood daily..

The consequence is that low level players are being attacked constantly and develop a bad initial perspective of the game. Many people claim to 'just attack and not plunder'; but, after attacking the lowest point player in my neighbourhood today (I am not saying it's unfair to do so, its just unfortunate that the current system encourages it), I noticed that out of around 30 buildings in their city - 10 or so of them had been plundered - 3/4 tool buildings and ~5/15 of their houses (houses were all on same timer length so definitely plundered - tool buildings could have been set to different timers i guess).

I think we need a new system that encourages attacking players of a similar level, not necessarily through restrictions, but by offering larger rewards for doing so (even a larger gain in pvp tower points would suffice). Also, defensive armies should maybe not all survive as that is the main turn-off of attacking strong players (no-one wants to lose 5+ troops just to steal a few coins and do no damage to the opposing player's army).

What do you guys think?

btw...
-this isn't meant to be a suggestion, just a discussion about the current system and wether/how it could be improved
-as per changelog, 0.18, nothing addressing the above is being implemented in the upcoming Colonial Age


(I have a feeling attacking through the ranking list will be made possible eventually - at least it should! This way there can actually be some cross-neighbourhood guild fighting. Although we can't support people's cities in other neighbourhoods, we can visit them, so this can't be that hard to implement.)

***Please don't make this thread a discussion about this... I think it would be much more interesting to discuss what changes could be made short-term to improve the battle system, and most importantly, keep new players playing!

 

[DeletedUser4089]

There already is an incentive to attack the higher ranking players in the neighbourhood. Attacking a noob with 2 spear defence, will at most, get you 240 points. Attacking a high ranking player with 8 Imperial Knights in defence can get you over 5000 points.

 

[DeletedUser]

Okay.. however, attacking both the high and low ranking players will get you 5240 points. Thus not really solving the problem of beginners being over-plundered.

Also most 'noobs' in my neighbourhood have a full army which can provide between 1000-2000 points, without doing any damage to a 4 short range, 4 long range army (thus creating an incentive to repeatedly attack lower level players). On the other hand, 8 Imperial Knights will do quite a bit of damage to your troops.

 

[DeletedUser]

Short answer; There isn't anything that would prevent lower ranked players from being attacked. If you really want those 240 BP, then you'll get them.

Elaboration;
Giving a bonus to attacking higher ranked players just means extra loot.
Any strategist would have figured out by now that attacking higher players causes damage to your troops, so you attack any low ranked players first to minimize Army injury before you face the big fish for extra loot and points.

For Battle Points orientated players it doesn't change anything, except more loot.

So again, there isn't anything that would prevent lower ranked players from being attacked, unless penalties get implemented.

- L

 

[DeletedUser]

is there no way to make neighbourhoods of equal leval players to protect the noobs from the big players and give them a chance to play also if neighbourhoods are equal it will make more competition for the pvp towers insted of one person getting the top prize week in week out

 

[DeletedUser]

Hey michael1983,

Neighbourhoods consist out of active players. Every three days, inactive players get hidden from the neighbourhood.
If you have a player that is extremely active and progresses fast, and you have a player that is only active once a day or two days, then you'll still have both players in the same neighbourhood, with a huge gap in ranking. There is nothing to be done about this.

Neighbourhoods get merged every week. This merge does require neighbourhoods to be of similar ranking and progression among other things. Players are never individually moved, so you'll almost always have neighbourhoods with high ranking players and low ranking players. Again, there is nothing to be done about this (currently at least).

Eventually high ranking players will not (always) bother with the lower Age PvP towers due to population and space requirements in their town, so low ranking players can compete in those. If you have a player that is dedicated to compete in every single tower, then you'll just have to deal with it, I guess.

- L

 

[DeletedUser4089]

Lower ranked players should maybe try PM'ing high ranking players who plunder them, and ask for a truce, in return the lower player could promise to motivate/polish the high ranking player daily. Diplomacy may work, it's worth a try at least.

And of course, high ranking players who don't plunder aren't a problem as defenders have no penalties except plundering.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lower ranked players should maybe try PM'ing high ranking players who plunder them, and ask for a truce, in return the lower player could promise to motivate/polish the high ranking player daily. Diplomacy may work, it's worth a try at least.

I think that happens in many instances, however, there are just as many players who just like the pvp-battles and like the looting - as it's their way of securing the goods, supplies and coins they need for their progress, and often as not they don't think twice about whom they're taking those things from.

I think it would be nice if there were a way that protects the starting player a little bit, for although it's impossible to lose your complete village, it's quite possible to be badly stalled in your progress, and that's not really something that encourages a new player to stick to the game, in my opinion.

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps create a threshold? Before that threshold is met, players cannot be attacked.
eg: The moment a players puts down military buildings, their town can be attacked.
This could easily be abused, so a back up trigger would be: After X amount of Forge Points have been used, a player can be attacked.

- L

 

[DeletedUser]

Also, larger neighbourhoods might help.

I maybe didn't make it very clear, but I think the main reason lower level players are being attacked so much is because people competing in the pvp trees need every point they can get (since you can only attack every 24 hours). Although this is more than enough, attacking just the top ranked players may not be enough, and thus forces players to farm new, lower level players - even though they might not want to attack them.

Attacking other players should have some greater meaning - not just a way to scrounge together a few measly pvp points in order to compete with other top players..

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't think the attacks themselves are the problem though, it's the plundering. I think being plundered is even worse for a lower level player, as it will cost him relatively much more to replace the lost items.

A threshold may be an idea, or maybe a week's immunity (a few days may be enough) after starting on the game.
And another thing to think about: could such a player attack (read: plunder) himself?

 

[DeletedUser]

A threshold may be an idea, or maybe a week's immunity (a few days may be enough) after starting on the game.
And another thing to think about: could such a player attack (read: plunder) himself?

That's why I said "the moment they start putting down military buildings" I think that in itself is an indication of getting/being ready for battle.

I don't think a timed immunity would do the trick, because some players only login once in a while (within the 3 days removal period).
Forge Points used would be an indication of how far someone is in progression and the devs could make a certain number of FP used a threshold.

This doesn't fix the problem, since high ranked players can still take out 8 Bronze Age units without a scratch.. but at least you won't be attacked the moment you start the game.
Also, low Age players are in general more click-active than high Age players, so they should time their collections in such a way they won't get plundered, or propose a truce for plundering to the high Age players.

As for larger neighbourhoods and advanced battling systems.
I think a larger neighbourhood would throw some or a lot of things out of balance. And this is still mainly a civilization game.
Even though additional or improved battle functions are announced, they may still not fulfill the desires of PvP orientated players.
In that case, Innogames is renowned for their more PvP focused games.

- L

 

[DeletedUser6968]

Hi everyone . I have been following this thread and this is my point of view :
In my sector we have a range of players that go from 36 k points to 330 points. I am, when I write this at 15K myself. Now, I am competing in 3 pvp towers. So I am attacking a lot of players each day with different combination of troops.
The way I play the game is I do not plunder small players. I know that can be really frustrating for them and they may, in the end, leave the game.

So there could be a threshold imposed taking in account the differential of points for plundering. Ex: You could still attack but not plunder if there is a 5k point difference between the two players.
This way you can still compete in the pvp tournament and the smaller players, even if they get attacked, will not be hindered in their development.

 

[DeletedUser]

there could be a threshold imposed taking in account the differential of points for plundering. Ex: You could still attack but not plunder if there is a 5k point difference between the two players.
This way you can still compete in the pvp tournament and the smaller players, even if they get attacked, will not be hindered in their development.

That's not a very good system, because two players that are at the exact same stage of progression might already have 5k points difference, merely because one uses a military and attacks daily and the other doesn't.

- L

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps create a threshold? Before that threshold is met, players cannot be attacked.
eg: The moment a players puts down military buildings, their town can be attacked.
- L

That's a really good idea. As a relative noob myself, I was attacked pretty much straight after i started and farmed regularly for days... i felt it was a pretty unfair system, relying on some AI using my spearmen against more advance units - in my case it drove me on to research the better units myself, but it could have gone the other way and I could have given up as I am sure others do.

Maybe there could be a threshold per age, i.e. you once you have researched the first two columns or military units then you can be attacked, but you forgoe this 'newbie protection' if you attack others first?

 

[DeletedUser6965]

So there could be a threshold imposed taking in account the differential of points for plundering. Ex: You could still attack but not plunder if there is a 5k point difference between the two players.
This way you can still compete in the pvp tournament and the smaller players, even if they get attacked, will not be hindered in their development.

GREAT idea! If there will bei such a threshold , then NOT for attacking, but for plundering. The 5kpoints different ist not that good, but we can discuss other thresholds.

Lodroth: That's why I said "the moment they start putting down military buildings" I think that in itself is an indication of getting/being ready for battle.

The "tutorial" in the beginning says, you have to build spearmen And even if it wouldn't, so everyone would just build no militarybuilding and can't be attacked the hole game ^^

 

[DeletedUser]

The "tutorial" in the beginning says, you have to build spearmen And even if it wouldn't, so everyone would just build no militarybuilding and can't be attacked the hole game ^^

You missed the rest of my post then. I said:

This could easily be abused, so a back up trigger would be: After X amount of Forge Points have been used, a player can be attacked.

But I had forgotten that the tutorial requests that.. hm.. Then maybe the moment someone creates another military building or a second spearfighter baracks.


EDIT:
I have created an idea out of my suggestions. You can find it here: Plunder Thresholds

- L

 

[DeletedUser]

why not only allow plundering if the players are within 1 age of each other?

so for example a player in the EMA could plunder players in the Iron Age but not those in the Bronze Age (and of course could plunder players in his own age or above).

 

[DeletedUser6968]

why not only allow plundering if the players are within 1 age of each other?

That is a good idea.

 

[DeletedUser]

Don't know what is the big fuss about being plundered for a lower level player...
You can only plunder 13 coins (if not 6) and they refill in 5-15 minutes...
So even a city that was plundered and re-plundered, in 15 minutes they are good to go.
The "auch" is for advanced players that can loose a lot. (maximum I plundered was 30 ebony so far)

Absolutely speaking, you are right, of course. 6 or 13 coins doesn't seem much.
However, relatively speaking, in percentages and I'm sure there are others who can do the calculations much better than I can, 6 or 13 coins for a beginning player is much more than 100 or 200 coins is for an advanced player