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how to stop the stalemate in gvg

DeletedUser13805

it is becoming clear now that many maps are now in a state of stale mate in gvg.

one idea i have had to try to stop this from happening is for a new guild to be formed made up of at least 20 or more of keen fighters, together they could smash the hold of the guilds who control the most sectors etc

the new guilds only role would be to take sectors and let them go so that it opens up the game again for all the other guilds to have a game.

thats one idea but do you have a better one ?

or should the game be left alone and the big guilds can just have control and no one is really bothered ?

or should there just be a guild that its only job is to take on the big hitters ? thats another idea maybe one for just the old pvp players to get together in there own guild just to attack and release the sectors ?

any input here will be welcome as i am always thinking up ways to progress the pvp fighting side of the game above all other sides and its taken a huge knock of late.
 

DeletedUser7719

Even if you did smash the bigger guilds, they will still smash the smaller ones that try to enter. Considering the amount of armies you will also waste from this, it won't get you too far (maybe one big guild every month which can gain it all back within 2 months ;))
 

DeletedUser13805

Even if you did smash the bigger guilds, they will still smash the smaller ones that try to enter. Considering the amount of armies you will also waste from this, it won't get you too far (maybe one big guild every month which can gain it all back within 2 months ;))

@ byeordie a squad of 20 fighters would take down full defended sectors in a matter of mins mate. it only works out at 5 fights per man and its game over
multiply it by 10 and its 50 fights per man for 10 sectors in a matter of an hour or so and take 10 sectors away from anyone and its going to soon mount up within a week.

dont forget that the aim is to release the sectors as you move on and there open again and either the big guilds or the little ones take them but the thing is there is action taking place and not the dead maps that are happening now thats the point and idea behind it all to get it all moving.
 

DeletedUser101862

Well done super troll!!! So clearly you have noticed that everybody disagreed with this form of cheating in a different thread so you now open a new thread to try to promote it? Awesome job.

P.S, for somebody who doesn't participate in GvG, why do you feel anybody would listen? You have no idea at all what it is like to spend tons of goods and work hard as a team to work your way through enemy sectors to have them ripped from you by some selfish players who want nothing more than to spite your guild and it's members by exploiting a loophole in the game mechanics.

As already stated by Remorce, Development team are currently working on ideas of how to stop this cheat from being possible. Nothing more to be said.
 

DeletedUser7719

@ byeordie a squad of 20 fighters would take down full defended sectors in a matter of mins mate. it only works out at 5 fights per man and its game over
Have you tried hitting a full sector defense? The fact that I can make one army 8 bazookas and another 8 tanks will make you suffer serious losses if you want to hit the auto button. If you don't hit the auto button, then the big guild will just continuely take out your siege and replace their armies if they get the time.

lol desy, if you really wanted to I can discuss a method of gaining 2M points about everyday with a peace treaty (with every guild near) one landing sector
 
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DeletedUser13805

Have you tried hitting a full sector defense? The fact that I can make one army 8 bazookas and another 8 tanks will make you suffer serious losses if you want to hit the auto button. If you don't hit the auto button, then the big guild will just continuely take out your siege and replace their armies if they get the time.

lol desy, if you really wanted to I can discuss a method of gaining 2M points about everyday with a peace treaty (with every guild near) one landing sector

i know byeordie i have been offered up chances of easy points from a few guilds since guild wars started mate, but heres the thing i do almost 2 million a day now as it is, without the need for any tricks of the trade shall we say : )

now back on topic
the rant from the preivous poster is out of order i am not trolling i am putting out an idea of how to try to stop the map being as empty of action as it is now and its only going to get worse which might be fine for the big guilds but it makes for an ultra slow and boring game for anyone who enjoys a good fight

if anyone else can come up with a good idea of how to stop this slow down that is going on then please lets hear it !!!!

when was the last fight on the map your on ? compared to how it was when gvg was first released ?

honestly if nothing is done then what is left in the game ? it really will be just a game to pop in once a day to collect goods and not much else and i care to much for the pvp fighting side of the game to let it just go without so much as a fight to do something about it
 

DeletedUser8813

there is nothing left..the once exciting game which was known as FORGE OF EMPIRES is now about as exciting as farmville..it will take a major turn around to make it what it was..since gvg was introduced i have seen more and more players drop out..4 from our guild which is only 48 strong...they are now just producing goods on a 2 day cycle..so log in every few days to deposit goods to treasury...this can not be good for the game..just like this idea will not be good for the game..player will lose interest or what interest there is in gvg then what do we have farmville 3
 

DeletedUser101862

By suggesting something that has already been announced as being a loophole in game mechanics and has also been announced that ideas are under way in order to fix it? Hmm... very clever. Suggest that people begin taking part in something that is due to be fixed due to it not being an intentional part of the game? You really don't see the problem there? Effectively, you are writing a post saying "Here is a bug, exploit it!". Probably not a very clever thing to do.

Also, how would you know if GvG is at a stand still? You don't take part in GvG, remember? Now if you like the fighting side of the game so much then why try to suggest people start doing something that will simply kill the GvG aspect of the game? Think about it, for the 3rd time I will explain; All guilds begin exploiting this issue and start HQ dropping in order to use ghost guild against other guilds. Now if all guilds are doing this to each other, who is left on the GvG map? NOBODY! Nobody will fight on GvG as they have to spend goods to do so and when they spend those goods they lose them in no time because of players using ghost guilds simply to spite each other and retaliate against each other.

Would you keep spending that amount of goods to claim sectors when you know that as soon as their protection runs out somebody is going to just ghost guild right through them for minimal costs? Nobody would, it would be pointless.

the rant from the preivous poster is out of order i am not trolling i am putting out an idea

Also, you have been on the forums long enough to know that if this is an idea then it belongs in the ideas forum, not game discussions.
 

DeletedUser4879

The only way to improve the game is to close down GvG, say for 3 month or
whatever it takes for the Devs to improve it to make it playable!! Only come
back to it when all the silliness and bugs taken care of!!
I like to have the game back I used to enjoy!!
Like to know how many players left the game because of GVG! I find more and
more empty cities in my Guild and Naborhood!!
 

DeletedUser96867

@pisepampel i'm not sure 3 months would do it. Gvg has been going for almost 5 months now since the beginning of testing with almost no changes, they haven't even attempted to fix the obvious problems.

@desypete The problem with your solution is that it's the goods cost which are largely responsible for stalemating gvg. If you have ghost guilds which just attack and release sectors on a regular basis, players and guilds will see their goods investment being wasted and be even less likely to spend goods to attack another sector.
 

DeletedUser653

@pisepampel i'm not sure 3 months would do it. Gvg has been going for almost 5 months now since the beginning of testing with almost no changes, they haven't even attempted to fix the obvious problems.

I feel like agreeing with you but cannot as we will get army management this weds, already delivered in Beta nd its ok, much better than now. so they may be plenty of other things that need doing but to say they hae done almost nothing is wrong.
 

DeletedUser96867

I feel like agreeing with you but cannot as we will get army management this weds, already delivered in Beta nd its ok, much better than now. so they may be plenty of other things that need doing but to say they hae done almost nothing is wrong.

I meant in terms of trying to fix the gvg stalemate situation which was an obvious problem as far back as late november/early december in the testing process, among some other gvg issues. Certainly the guild treasury is really nice to finally have as in my opinion it was a must have part of gvg, and the ability to locate unattached units will also be nice but it should have been added regardless of gvg.

HOW TO FIX GVG:

Here is what i would propose: \

1)GOODS COST
Greatly reduce or completely eliminate the goods cost of gvg. The main purpose (at least the siege cost) is to limit the number of sectors a guild can take. Instead i propose putting a sector limit per age (say 15 sectors) per guild. The top guilds would then be forced to maneuver more for the higher power sectors to take top spot over the other top guilds(also would have to let sectors go to fight for reward sectors see #2 below). Instead of sieges costing goods, increase the unit cost of placing siege armies to reduce nuisance sieges from being placed and increase the cost of sieging/attacking in gvg to exploit pvp points. Instead of paying one 8 unit army as a siege which has to be defeated 10 times, require say five armies to be placed as the siege army each of which has to be defeated 2 times, in addition limit the number of sieges a guild can place per day.

2)REWARD SECTORS
Create reward sectors which will move on a regular basis (say once per week) Each reward sector will pay a small daily reward to the guild which holds that sector. Each province would have a number (10-15) reward sectors. Some could pay coins, other supplies, some goods, some fp, other medals, and perhaps 1 would pay diamonds(could have a wishing well sector). These sectors would move once a week and would be moved to sectors which border on at least 3 different guilds creating small localized fighting over the reward sectors.

3)GVG RESET
Reset gvg after a certain time period perhaps 8 weeks. The first few weeks of gvg are active as guilds advance on the npc map. The middle of the cycle will have some activity as guilds move for position and to take and hold reward sectors. The last week or 2 of the cycle would have activity as guilds attempt to advance in the rankings for the end of the gvg tournament cycle. Note: A gvg reset will make it easier for new guilds to enter gvg, for guilds to changethe ages they take part in gvg as they advance, and also allow guilds to take a break from gvg if they want to take a cycle off to focus on other parts of the game. Presuming there were still goods costs for gvg sectors some amount of goods would have to be paid back at the reset.

4)Eliminate the current reward system. Instead rewards will consist of the daily reward sectors, some daily rewards for guilds by ranking in each gvg age, and a large reward based on a guilds ranking in each individual age at the end of the gvg tournament cycle. I would remove the reward for a guilds overall ranking across all ages, each age would be separate sort of like the pvp tournaments are all separate each week.

5)Limit the number of ages a guild can take part in gvg to 3-4. This should make it easier for smaller guilds to take part in the lower age gvg.

6)Put in place rules/code which will prohibit guild hopping for gvg/ghost guilds/HQ leapfrogging plus the other loopholes we currently have.

7)Would also be great if the gvg maps changed some with each gvg cycle even if this just meant that the sector powers changed, and the ages shuffled among the provinces to provide something slightly fresh with each cycle.

Just my thoughts, really not sure why i wasted an hour of my time doing that.
 
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DeletedUser4879

I feel like agreeing with you but cannot as we will get army management this weds, already delivered in Beta nd its ok, much better than now. so they may be plenty of other things that need doing but to say they hae done almost nothing is wrong.

What they've done is stuff it up!! As I asked before, how many players have left since and how many
gone dormant waiting for better things to come!??:eek:
 

DeletedUser8813

What they've done is stuff it up!! As I asked before, how many players have left since and how many
gone dormant waiting for better things to come!??:eek:

I agree ...the treasury should have been included to start with ,the unattached filter is great but does nothing to improve the overall gvg situation..gvg has been such a none event for me even if i wanted to actively participate ..i couldn't..the calc happens during my night time all the action happens just before or just after..so there are no fights left for me nothing to do but watch to see if some one happens to lay siege..which is a rare occasion..oh i can produce goods or troops for def but if i was to just do that i may as well go play farmville.
I am sorry to say gvg has done nothing in my book to enhance forge of empires..and by the time they get round to fixing the holes ,exploits and ghost guilding ..it will be way to late.

and post 13 has some solutions that should be given so serious thought
 

DeletedUser13805

@fischh
one idea you posted up lept out at me !!!

the idea of resetting gvg maps seems a very goods one, it would make it so much more a game if it changed each week or month along the lines like pvp does weekly
so all guilds would be able to work most of the time and if there no good at it one week or month they can save up to have another crack at it next week or month.

this could be a good feature indeed to keep it from stalemate well done for that idea as its simple and should be easy to implement and it means there is no time for standing still so a big thumbs up for that idea
 

DeletedUser653

Interesting list
1) not going to work if guild has to find 5x8 units per siege, this prevent players without Alcatraz from playing, 40 troops to place siege will leave no other troops to fight with! Remember (I suspect) most guilds only have 4-6 players in an age, only a few can say they have 10 active fighters in an age.
2) could be interesting but but no one going to place a siege on a defended sector for 20,000 coins are they. It really would have to cover the cost of a siege and more.
3) All guilds doing will will hate this and Personally if I found it all reset after all the hard work I just would not bother.
4) rewards are always nice, but they will go to the same 5 or 6 guilds each week and thus defeat the objective.
5) An interesting idea and might work
6) 100% agree
7) NA if we do not have refresh.

But a good go at getting those thoughts on the forum.
 

DeletedUser96867

@HRC
1)Agree that is a problem but i don't see gvg ever working with the existing goods costs, and without them something has to be done to make sieging more difficult, if it's free other than one 8 unit siege army people will be placing nuisance sieges all over the place. I would also suggest reducing the number of defending army slots in the higher ages as it's hard to have enough military buildings. Could also change my proposal so that instead of having to defeat 5 siege armies twice (5x2=10) each would have to be defeated 4 times (5x4=20). This would reduce the number of sieges needed and increase the time a guild has to take a sector. For me spending 2,000+ goods per siege just isn't going to work.

2)This would be a daily reward to every member of a guild so it would add up. Attacking a reward province would be a bonus over what ever reason we have to attack a sector now(taking an additional sector now so we will start getting 1fp a day reward in 87 days instead of 89 is that really worth it?). Certainly there will be situation where some guilds will decide the reward isn't worth the effort, but some might, and it depends on which reward sector it is. I expect half of it will be the pride is taking and holding a wanted sector for the week.

3)The biggest problem are the goods we have committed to the effort. If the goods cost was removed or greatly reduced i think it would work. The problem is this should have been done before gvg ever went live so everyone knew what they were getting into. For me i think the best part of gvg will always be the first couple weeks as guilds race for position on the map, attempting to cut off other guilds and occupy key positions, since that phase of gvg was completed it's become a boring chore to maintain gvg with little enjoyment. (imagine how after a number of resets guilds opening strategy would advance each time, and guilds would start to learn which sectors were the most strategic to hold and intense fights would break out over them) Think about what if would be like if pvp didn't have a reset and just went on and on forever, after a few weeks or a month it would be boring and no one would take part, it's the reset which keeps it fresh and new each week.

4)Rewards will be paid out to many guilds like in pvp where the top half dozen players in each tower often get medals each week. With a limitation on the number of ages a guild can fight in more guilds will get rewards as the same few guilds can't dominate every age. As it is now many of the guilds taking part in gvg will have to wait a year before they even start getting the 1fp a day reward, don't tell me the 4% decrease in training time, and the 1% decrease in building costs are great rewards for the majority of gvg guilds.

I'm certain what i suggested wouldn't work perfectly in any sense of the word but i think it would be a move in the right direction. I just don't see how gvg will ever be successful long term with the current goods costs, and nothing to keep it fresh. In my guild we have even debated if the current system was worth the goods costs to take a npc sector in CA, never mind the goods costs to attempt to attack another guild.

In my opinion the reset is the key to ever making gvg work long term. However I agree now that gvg has gone live it'll be so painful to make that change it may no longer be possible.

Who really thinks that gvg as it is now is going to work long term without some major overhauling? What INNO really needs to do is start a discussion with the players to figure this out, as what they came up with just doesn't look like it is going to work very well.
 
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DeletedUser2989

As for the original post, I'm not sure that would fix the stalemate. Reasons for that are all already stated.

As for later posts (fischh's in particular), those are some very major changes that make the normal PvP seem kinda pointless... If you turned GvG into a tornament it would feel like doubling up on a feature. So I'd be against converting it into another tornament.
Your goods cost solution is very blunt and I'm not sure it really removes the stalemate as all you'd have to do is take 15 sectors and wait for a rewards sector to pop up on one you own (if I'm understanding your rewards suggestion right). Your siege armies proposal is interesting but very costly in terms of troops, it also unlocks 3 slots that would normally be pay to unlock as well (unless your doing away with those costs). I've always thought siege armies should still be 10 hit points but up to 2 can be placed or more if you pay the acssociated goods cost to unlock it (give the players the choice to spend more if they want).

The rewards that are currently on offer in GvG aren't great but they could be improved or expanded, your reward sector idea is an interesting and should be proposed on it's own. Regardless of the form of GvG I think having Reward sectors that give their reward to the guild controlling that sector at the end of the day would be worth a look at and could be a good way to add in more valueable/immidiate rewards.

As for my idea on how to get GvG moving again, well the problem seems to be that guilds are more likely to siege NPC's over other guilds especially when it can cost so much. Thus I'd say seperate the cost to siege NPC's from siegeing other guilds. I can think of two ways to work out the costs for the sieges but in both cases it requires that kind of seperation so that we make it more attractive to attack eachother than to dominate the NPC's. It might not help all guilds get onto the map but it should address the issue that this thread started with which was "how to stop the stalemate in gvg".

My idea is posted here http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/showthread.php?24653-Seperate-Goods-cost-to-Siege-in-GvG

I won't repeat my full concept here.
 

DeletedUser

it is becoming clear now that many maps are now in a state of stale mate in gvg.

one idea i have had to try to stop this from happening is for a new guild to be formed made up of at least 20 or more of keen fighters, together they could smash the hold of the guilds who control the most sectors etc

the new guilds only role would be to take sectors and let them go so that it opens up the game again for all the other guilds to have a game.

I think the main problem with that idea is the lack of interest in doing it: if people were interested in breaking the stalemate in GvG, they'd be doing it in their current guilds. It doesn't require a new guild to make that happen, and it may be more difficult to attempt it in a new guild compared to an established guild that has been working together for some time.

It is probably inevitable that there is slowdown in GvG; the initial rush is unsustainable in terms of time, effort and costs.
 

DeletedUser8813

I think the main problem with that idea is the lack of interest in doing it: if people were interested in breaking the stalemate in GvG, they'd be doing it in their current guilds. It doesn't require a new guild to make that happen, and it may be more difficult to attempt it in a new guild compared to an established guild that has been working together for some time.

It is probably inevitable that there is slowdown in GvG; the initial rush is unsustainable in terms of time, effort and costs.


it's the cost that is stopping it now..thats why ghost guilds are being formed ..this will only add to the lack off interest..and as to slow down ...well it has stalled already
 
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