Happiness GBs are too weak

[DeletedUser3157]

Among other GB whining, I thought I'd let u know that the happiness GBs all strike out for being worth not that much. Likely devs did not assume how often buildings would be polished for more active guild members when putting out those numbers. For exampe lvl10 Dresden is only 38% better than polished trading company and if you go on opposite extremes, Colosseum is so bad a calculating top player would raze his lvl10 colesseum when entering CA. I know I would. I am right now after Dresden as my 6th GB and as only happiness GB I plan to build and more and more I am having doubts if it is even worth it and wonder of how I overcome my happiness drop for intial first 7 levels, shouldnt be like this for GBs I think, esp of top age ones, hence I don't really think the bonus is big enough(this, or the bonus for all other military and economy ones is too big in comparision, what it also likely is).

 

[DeletedUser7798]

thanks for addressing this. making them polish-able should be a easy balanced fix.

 

[DeletedUser]

As far as I'm concerned you make a good point hint. Hope the MOD'S or DEV'S can help you out with this issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't quite get it. If it does not do what you want it to do then don't build it. There must be a lot of GBs on the 'not worth building' list for each individual. On the other hand, someone who plays an independent game and does not like to rely on polishings may say: Wow what a bargain.

 

[DeletedUser]

hehe. I haven't given it a thought yet but coming from hint it brings me a great smile.

I remember hint being a pioneer in bashing the "minds behind the GB" as "greedy/money suckers/diamond-selling sharks" for making them so difficult to get in comparison to "a swipe of the credit card".

Now, the tables have turned and the buildings he couldn't wait to get fast enough are not that good anymore.
The stats are exactly the same as they were. In fact, the effect of each building was plain and clear even before they were implemented
What changed is:
When you didn't have them-----> you wanted them badly.
When you have them ------> They are not good enough.

P.S. Sorry hint, nothing personal towards you. It's the natural human nature. Always after what one doesn't have.

 

[DeletedUser3157]

This is all true since I felt GBs were introduced prematurely and I addressed that issue. And I still feel I was right. I also admit I underestimated the amount of BPs being able to collect via donations to other GBs and it was much bigger than I expected. Nevertheless this has nothing to do with the point I was adressing in this thread, as in I was point out a simple minor inbalance.

About the order goodness of different ones, I had my list done on day1 and I been furfilling it since that, that has not changed since.

 

[DeletedUser8813]

Among other GB whining, I thought I'd let u know that the happiness GBs all strike out for being worth not that much. Likely devs did not assume how often buildings would be polished for more active guild members when putting out those numbers. For exampe lvl10 Dresden is only 38% better than polished trading company and if you go on opposite extremes, Colosseum is so bad a calculating top player would raze his lvl10 colesseum when entering CA. I know I would. I am right now after Dresden as my 6th GB and as only happiness GB I plan to build and more and more I am having doubts if it is even worth it and wonder of how I overcome my happiness drop for intial first 7 levels, shouldnt be like this for GBs I think, esp of top age ones, hence I don't really think the bonus is big enough(this, or the bonus for all other military and economy ones is too big in comparision, what it also likely is).

a little confused here..dresden = 5200 happiness at level 10 no polishing required..trading company 900 happiness or 1800 polished ...so to me that looks like you need 2.8 trading companies to do the same as dresden...thats a little better than 38% i think ...that means the coliseum aint so bad after all

 

[DeletedUser]

a little confused here..dresden = 5200 happiness at level 10 no polishing required..trading company 900 happiness or 1800 polished ...so to me that looks like you need 2.8 trading companies to do the same as dresden...thats a little better than 38% i think ...that means the coliseum aint so bad after all

2.8 trading companies take a lot more space than a dresden. He's looking at happiness / square, a more accurate metric. Hint's math is correct.

 

[DeletedUser8813]

2.8 trading companies take a lot more space than a dresden. He's looking at happiness / square, a more accurate metric. Hint's math is correct.

ah yes i see what he is getting at .....good thing i dont work by the square,,i look at total space it would use and 1 building 5x5 is better than 3 @...3 x 4 to get the same happines over 24 hours...

 

[DeletedUser]

Three Trading Companies = 36 squares and 5400 happiness and two lots of 3 polishes per 12 hours

Comparing the same number of squares and polishes (as gives approximately an equal amount of happiness as a level 10 Frauenkriche of Dresden) then:

• Level 10 Dresden = 25 squares, 5200 happiness and 11 goods per day.
• Those 6 polishes could go on Gambrel Roof Houses for an extra 6 x 1350 x 1.2 (assuming an entusiastic population) = 9720 gold.
• Those 11 remaining building spaces could also go on Gambrel Roof Houses for an extra 11 / 4 x 1350 x 1.2 (assuming an entusiastic population) = 4455 gold and 712.25 population (This could be more gold if I considered 1-hour houses but I was using GR houses for the polishes so I'll stick with those houses; similarly 11 spaces is only 2.75 houses so I'm working on a per-square bonus for this which is not entirely realistic but it'll do for a quick calculation)

So considering 36 squares containing either 3 Trading Companies or a level 10 Frauenkirche of Dresden and some GR Houses to fill the space then the latter gives 200 less happiness but, per day, gives 11 goods and potentially 14,175 more gold and 712.25 additional population.

I would have the Frauenkirche of Dresden over 3 Trading Companies (and do... although it's only level 3 at the moment).

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't quite get it. If it does not do what you want it to do then don't build it. There must be a lot of GBs on the 'not worth building' list for each individual. On the other hand, someone who plays an independent game and does not like to rely on polishings may say: Wow what a bargain.

Surely though the purpose of a Great Building is to be great not dull!

 

[DeletedUser]

thanks for addressing this. making them polish-able should be a easy balanced fix.

I agree these Great Buildings that provide happiness as their major role are flawed and need some ammendments in the next update perhaps. Why not double their output to make them more attractive, polish-able shouldn't be required the other buildings aren't so why this type?

 

[DeletedUser11540]

Well, I have a few GBs and I must admit happiness GBs is quite bad in comparison with any other GBs. The only happiness GB I want to have is Hagia Sophia since it's undoubtedly the best of its kind ( prove FP + largest happiness pool). Colosseum needs tweak in medal reward, too few even with level 10 ( low is ok but lv10 gives not even half that of lv1 Deal castle?). Dresden....worthless, best happiness/tile but goods reward sucks in quantity. Notre Dame: same as Dresden, supposes to be worse but it takes less space and less FP to lv up.

My GBs of choice are Zeus, Lighthouse, Hagia Sophia, St's Mark, Castel Monte, Deal Castle ( Aachen if I want to be Super Offensive).

 

[DeletedUser]

Level 10 Colosseum gives 4000 happiness for 42 squares = 95.23 happiness per square.

It is also an Iron Age building - so four ages behind the current age.

If you compare it to a trading company then that gives 900 / 12 = 75 happiness per square (78.75% of the benefit of a Colosseum).

But if you compare it to a IA building then:

• Amphitheter gives 880 / 16 = 55 Happiness per square (57.75% of the benefit of a Colosseum);
• Public Bath gives 570 / 16 = 35.625 Happiness per square (37.4% of the benefit of a Colosseum); and
• Triumphal Arch give 190 / 6 = 31.67 Happiness per square (33.25%% of the benefit of a Colosseum).

So, a maximum-level Colosseum is about three times more efficient than an equivalent (unpolished) non-premium building of it's age, just under twice as efficient as the (unpolished) premium building of its age and is still more efficient than an the most efficient (unpolished) non-premium building four ages above it. Plus it gives free medals.

I would say that's not a bad building for it's age...

Would I have it in the Colonial Age - no.
Would I have it in the Iron Age (or EMA or HMA) - quite probably.

... but then I wouldn't expect to be using Public Baths in my Colonial Age city either.

 

[DeletedUser]

Each age has two great buildings. For that age, their powers are too great. As civilization progressed into more advanced ages, the "gap" between those great structures and "normal" ones became smaller, till the age when it was not considered great anymore.
In the next age, the new culture buildings will maybe take less space than Colosseum and provide more happiness, i will keep Colosseum as part of city's history.

Asking for Colosseum to be more powerful is like asking for the chalet houses to provide more coins.
In the Colonial Age, or Industrial age, a player can decide to replace Colosseum with a similar great building that provides more happiness or keep it. But calling for developers to double Colosseum and other GB so they are still great in CA....... not a great idea when you take into account the game of a player in BA or Iron age.

But i would give it a thought to the reverse. Happiness buildings like Colosseum, start to fade in might as culture buildings of higher ages become very powerful.
The same should apply to Zeus statue. Maybe the military boost of Zeus should be a few % lower for units of each higher age

P.S. I have noticed that in general players in CA who have finished research long ago (i'm one of them) tend to have flawed arguments, based on the fact they forgot the path they walked to get there.
I see in the forums a lot of arguments and suggestion on issues that affect earlier ages as well to be presented as if the game starts from Colonial age.

 

[DeletedUser8813]

Each age has two great buildings. For that age, their powers are too great. As civilization progressed into more advanced ages, the "gap" between those great structures and "normal" ones became smaller, till the age when it was not considered great anymore.
In the next age, the new culture buildings will maybe take less space than Colosseum and provide more happiness, i will keep Colosseum as part of city's history.

Asking for Colosseum to be more powerful is like asking for the chalet houses to provide more coins.
In the Colonial Age, or Industrial age, a player can decide to replace Colosseum with a similar great building that provides more happiness or keep it. But calling for developers to double Colosseum and other GB so they are still great in CA....... not a great idea when you take into account the game of a player in BA or Iron age.

But i would give it a thought to the reverse. Happiness buildings like Colosseum, start to fade in might as culture buildings of higher ages become very powerful.
The same should apply to Zeus statue. Maybe the military boost of Zeus should be a few % lower for units of each higher age

P.S. I have noticed that in general players in CA who have finished research long ago (i'm one of them) tend to have flawed arguments, based on the fact they forgot the path they walked to get there.
I see in the forums a lot of arguments and suggestion on issues that affect earlier ages as well to be presented as if the game starts from Colonial age.

Now this is a post i totally agree with

 

[DeletedUser276]

you know... I dont think I could have explained it better myself. Kudos Klevito.

 

[DeletedUser11618]

I don't agree that GB's like Zeus should also depreciate with age(I don't have Zeus). A large part of their appeal is the ever lasting greatness of them. The Egyptians never razed the pyramids, and neither should our empires need to raze their GB"S in the future.

I think what hint would really like to see is the happiness GB's scale like the other GB's. Doubling their happiness obviously doesn't fix the problem as then happy GB's just go obselete later.

How about the Happiness GB's increase empire happiness by a fixed %? Every other GB works with %'s, why not the happy GB?

 

[DeletedUser2206]

When we have a "special" quest, like the Hallowe'en and Winter quests, the buildings do not increase their worth as we progress; therefore, neither should the Great Buildings. Just my humble opinion.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

The same should apply to Zeus statue. Maybe the military boost of Zeus should be a few % lower for units of each higher age

I like that idea if we keep the happiness GBs the same. I don't know if it should also go down for lower ages too though.