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Beware the Autobattle

DeletedUser110131

I found that the AI is different in different situations, for example I am in the ME continent map and the AI always targets my real units first and completely ignores my rogues unless they are the only unit they can attack. Where as if I am attacking another players city the AI will always target rogues first.
Yes, the AI behaves different on the Continent Map. I'm fairly certain that it's the same AI, only with different parameters, though.
 

Agent327

Overlord
That hardly matters.

It does matter since you keep correcting others about the way they read where you yourself only read what you want to read. You are great in telling of others and your own crap smells like roses.You have an opinion about everything and whether you know something about it or not does in your own words "hardly matter".

The "Auto Battle" button isn't outright suicidal in PvP. I can use it on a good part of the neighbourhood. All I need to do is check the strength of my neighbours at the start of the neighbourhood. That way I can see on which ones I can use the Auto Button and which ones I better not. It is not really that different from starting a battle and finishing it on auto. In that case you also go to auto once you know you can win. That such a great player and fighter as you never thought of this.
 

DeletedUser110131

You have an opinion about everything
I guess we have something in common, then.
All I need to do is check the strength of my neighbours at the start of the neighbourhood. [,,,] It is not really that different from starting a battle and finishing it on auto.
It's completely different.

If you use the "Auto Battle" button, all your neighbors have to do, is switch up their defenses slightly, and your troops are massacred. Of course, you have a fair chance at getting lucky, since many players are too passive to do that. Even so, when "survival" depends on luck, you're following a "suicidal" strategy. Even with more good than bad luck, you'll start to accumulate defeats.

If you finish a battle on auto, then you know both the units and the terrain, and can fight manually if victory isn't certain. You can avoid defeat altogether.
 

Agent327

Overlord
It's completely different.

If you use the "Auto Battle" button, all your neighbors have to do, is switch up their defenses slightly, and your troops are massacred. Of course, you have a fair chance at getting lucky, since many players are too passive to do that. Even so, when "survival" depends on luck, you're following a "suicidal" strategy. Even with more good than bad luck, you'll start to accumulate defeats.

If you finish a battle on auto, then you know both the units and the terrain, and can fight manually if victory isn't certain. You can avoid defeat altogether.

Bullcrap. You twist and turn like a turd in a bowl. Where it at first was outright suicidal I now suddenly have a FAIR chance of getting lucky. Your problem is that if someone does not agree with your superior view of the game, which usually comes down to a lot of words with very little content, they immediately get told they do not read what you write and they do not play the game. Well, once again your view is absolutely shortsighted. Slightly switching up the defenses doesn't do crap and luck has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of players with an attack way over 200% that can use that auto button on a good part of the neighbourhood. They will not start to accumulate defeats. They probably will not even know that the defense has been switched up slightly. Maybe that auto button is suicide for you, but it isn't for a lot of players and you absolutely do not speak for all the players, even if you seem to think different.
 

DeletedUser96901

maybe you guys need more boost and being in a better era ;)

8 eels. enough boost. autobattle. won

except the ones with more than 400% defense
but that are only 1 or 2 in every hood.
and those are written down and don't be autobattled twice


If you use the "Auto Battle" button, all your neighbors have to do, is switch up their defenses slightly
there are also only one or two who change their defense after defeat
write them down and you know them

but for me with 8 eels and enough boost
it doesn't matter what the defense is if the have their boost is below 200%


Yes, the AI behaves different on the Continent Map. I'm fairly certain that it's the same AI, only with different parameters, though.
and ? everybody know that

arctic future: 8 battle fortress. autobattle. won
oceanic future: 8 eels. autobattle. won

so the way to success is:
knowing the units to use (and having a boost)
 

DeletedUser110131

Where it at first was outright suicidal I now suddenly have a FAIR chance of getting lucky
Next thing, I'll have to specify that I don't mean that you'll actually die from this type of "suicide"? The statement was a deliberate exaggeration; there's no risk of death, nor certainty of always loosing. There's "just" certainty of loosing some percentage of battles (ignoring the exception mentioned by Test Ament). To me, a strategy with a certainty of loosing, at any frequency, is a "suicidal" strategy.

In the context of the statement of mine that we're discussing, the frequency would also have been very high, since I made it in the context of a 7 rogue line up.

Apparently, we have different definitions of what is an acceptable success rate. That's fair enough. You're happy with winning on occasion, and would have to loose every battle before you'd consider it "suicide". To me, leaving the outcome to luck is unacceptable, as is predictably loosing at some frequency. I prefer my defeats to be non-predictable. "Predictably loosing at some frequency", of course, is synonymous with "accumulating defeats".

sually comes down to a lot of words with very little content
I know. I could never pack in as many insults and ad hominem attacks in a sentence or two, as you can. You're a master of maximum content, with a minimum of words. It's just unfortunate that the content is always so thoroughly unhelpful.

8 eels. enough boost. autobattle. won
Would that be the case for 7 Rogue line ups, as well?

The phrase "enough boost" makes that statement completely safe. By definition, "enough" guaranties the outcome. If you're "fast enough", you not only can win any race, you will, with certainty, win all races. I won't doubt that you're right that you can identify some players in each neighborhood that will loose on the boost discrepancy alone. Maybe even without any risk of losses of your own, though I'd be very surprised.

Based on your statement, I concede that it's not "suicidal" for everyone, with all line ups. I suspect that it's not very relevant for the majority of players, though. For me, in the neighborhoods I've been in, it has been to risky, and I'm quite certain I'd be defeated more often than I'll accept.

there are also only one or two who change their defense after defeat
write them down and you know them

I don't keep such lists any longer. It's a lot of work, in order to gain little certainty. Simply having a look at the battle map is much less work, and gives complete certainty.

Looking away from the "enough boost" situation, which I doubt that many are in, there's considerable uncertainty, even with non-Rogue line ups. The AI is very poor at exploiting the terrain, and whether it benefits from the terrain is mainly based on coincidence. Combine that with other fairly random behaviors from the AI, and you have a significant element of randomness. You may win most of the time, but not reliably, and not without losses. Unless you have "enough boost", of course.

and ? everybody know that
It's old news to me, to you, and to many others, perhaps even to Pyro Psycho, who's statement I replied yo. However, the statement was a bit tentative, so I specified, and added my agreement. It's a fairly important fact for n00bs, who may drop in on a thread like this, to find advice.

 
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DeletedUser107476

arctic future: 8 battle fortress. autobattle. won
oceanic future: 8 eels. autobattle. won
Wondering at how many losses on the double battles and how many diamonds to heal in between battles?
Also what boost was at that point?
 

Agent327

Overlord
Next thing, I'll have to specify that I don't mean that you'll actually die from this type of "suicide"? The statement was a deliberate exaggeration; there's no risk of death, nor certainty of always loosing. There's "just" certainty of loosing some percentage of battles (ignoring the exception mentioned by Test Ament). To me, a strategy with a certainty of loosing, at any frequency, is a "suicidal" strategy.

There goes the turd again. Still twisting and turning.

In the context of the statement of mine that we're discussing, the frequency would also have been very high, since I made it in the context of a 7 rogue line up.

There is no context. Your statement is absolute. Context arrives later when you perform your turd act.

Apparently, we have different definitions of what is an acceptable success rate. That's fair enough. You're happy with winning on occasion, and would have to loose every battle before you'd consider it "suicide". To me, leaving the outcome to luck is unacceptable, as is predictably loosing at some frequency. I prefer my defeats to be non-predictable. "Predictably loosing at some frequency", of course, is synonymous with "accumulating defeats".

I never loose.

I know. I could never pack in as many insults and ad hominem attacks in a sentence or two, as you can. You're a master of maximum content, with a minimum of words. It's just unfortunate that the content is always so thoroughly unhelpful.

It's only unhelpful cause I am talking to a brick wall that still thinks it is the best wall ever built.

Would that be the case for 7 Rogue line ups, as well?

Why does it have to be? Are you now not allowed to pick your own units before you use the auto battle?

The phrase "enough boost" makes that statement completely safe. By definition, "enough" guaranties the outcome. If you're "fast enough", you not only can win any race, you will, with certainty, win all races. I won't doubt that you're right that you can identify some players in each neighborhood that will loose on the boost discrepancy alone. Maybe even without any risk of losses of your own, though I'd be very surprised.

By definition, not taking boost into account makes your suïcide statement rather stupid. Now you can even identify some players in each neighbourhood that will loose. Man, you are more slippery than an eel in a buckut full of mucus. Never seen someone turn this much before.

Based on your statement, I concede that it's not "suicidal" for everyone, with all line ups. I suspect that it's not very relevant for the majority of players, though. For me, in the neighborhoods I've been in, it has been to risky, and I'm quite certain I'd be defeated more often than I'll accept.

Does this mean there is actual light at the end of the tunnel and you start to realize that you might be wrrr.. wrrrr.... wrr..... wrong?

I don't keep such lists any longer. It's a lot of work, in order to gain little certainty. Simply having a look at the battle map is much less work, and gives complete certainty.

It's a lot less work than typing these long forun posts and learns you a lot more.

Looking away from the "enough boost" situation, which I doubt that many are in, there's considerable uncertainty, even with non-Rogue line ups. The AI is very poor at exploiting the terrain, and whether it benefits from the terrain is mainly based on coincidence. Combine that with other fairly random behaviors from the AI, and you have a significant element of randomness. You may win most of the time, but not reliably, and not without losses. Unless you have "enough boost", of course.

There isn't any uncertainty, but I now know why you have no clue. You simply have not developed that far yet.

That must be a harsh statement coming from a player that does not play the game according to you. I guess Test Ament does not play the game either.
 

Agent327

Overlord
Wondering at how many losses on the double battles and how many diamonds to heal in between battles?
Also what boost was at that point?

Acceptable losses cause you win and Alcatraz more than covers for it. No diamonds needed to heal. Don't know about him, but for me a 200+ boost.
 

DeletedUser107476

Acceptable losses cause you win and Alcatraz more than covers for it. No diamonds needed to heal. Don't know about him, but for me a 200+ boost.
And you changed name to Test Ament when exactly? I can go through most battles with 1 loss no diamonds used when using manual, so curious as to what it takes for him to do it on auto and how many losses.
 

Agent327

Overlord
And you changed name to Test Ament when exactly? I can go through most battles with 1 loss no diamonds used when using manual, so curious as to what it takes for him to do it on auto and how many losses.

Do you think that because of that I might have said "don't know about him"?

On that same note, did I ask you how you do in your battles?
 

DeletedUser96901

Wondering at how many losses on the double battles
3-4 on average

and how many diamonds to heal in between battles?
zero. I never heal units with diamonds

Also what boost was at that point?
OF city:
93% (the normal level 11 on the 3 attack GB for long playing players: level 10 and using the voucher)

AF cities
75%-90%

(no AO or Kraken on those worlds)

the autobattle is the best (=fastest) thing for players with many cities if they know what units to use
at least on world map an GE


I can go through most battles with 1 loss no diamonds used when using manual
sure better unit selecting and doing manually is much better

but autobattle in AF and OF map with those units is so freaking fast and easy
 
I just have to laugh at these long-winded know-it-it-all's - lol - The auto-battle is for those of us that know we have all the boost needed to win a battle and don't want to waste the time doing the battle.

It wasn't designed for the standard players - Those with typical level 10 gb's or less.

Open the flood gates. Let the onslaught come - I'm waiting for a good laugh!
 

Vesiger

Monarch
What's slightly worrying is that after fighting thousands of manual battles I've been using the new auto-battle option on the first level of the GE recently (when I've had quests to 'defeat 30 units' etc), and have got the distinct impression that it loses fewer units than I do...

I suspect I'm not 'taking advantage of the terrain', beyond using it to hide certain units in: half the time the enemy units seem to hit me on the first turn anyway, so the only way to avoid losing units is a high percentage of rogues (and you can never be sure what they're going to turn into).
 

DeletedUser653

Come on guys, this is a beginner mistake the OP did in using 1 unit and 7 rogues, under auto the single unit rushed up field and becomes the unit the AI then targets. No unit left and rogues normally did quickly. I think we have all had a Ce fight with the one AAV unit and rogues against 8 tanks, works great if you hold it back a go but hit the auto and you know its going to be a 8 lost units even before they die.

So if your fighting fully auto you must use slow units with rogues or just use the right units to win the battle and use 8 real ones
 

DeletedUser653

What's slightly worrying is that after fighting thousands of manual battles I've been using the new auto-battle option on the first level of the GE recently (when I've had quests to 'defeat 30 units' etc), and have got the distinct impression that it loses fewer units than I do...

I suspect I'm not 'taking advantage of the terrain', beyond using it to hide certain units in: half the time the enemy units seem to hit me on the first turn anyway, so the only way to avoid losing units is a high percentage of rogues (and you can never be sure what they're going to turn into).
interesting - i will give it a go and compare
 

DeletedUser6065

'Come on guys, this is a beginner mistake the OP did in using 1 unit and 7 rogues, . . . '
Not necessarily a 'beginners mistake', HRC. I've been Forging since 2 days before dirt was born. I recently rushed in w/ 7 Rogues, and 1 Armored Car using AutoCombat.
. . . . m'wearing a bag over his head'k
 

PomPoms

Sergeant
I get how to increase my attack bonus for attacking...but how do you increase your attack % for your Defending army? There is a huge gap in this area between attack and defence %'s as there are only Deal and St Basil to increase the attack part of it. The AI is really dumb at fighting anyway, we should be able to "hurt" those who attack at least a bit! I guess there is a good reason that one's attack bonus doesn't count everywhere?
 

Vesiger

Monarch
I get how to increase my attack bonus for attacking...but how do you increase your attack % for your Defending army? There is a huge gap in this area between attack and defence %'s as there are only Deal and St Basil to increase the attack part of it. The AI is really dumb at fighting anyway, we should be able to "hurt" those who attack at least a bit! I guess there is a good reason that one's attack bonus doesn't count everywhere?
Monastery, ritual flame, Tigers' Den, watchfires and various special buildings out of the new sets.
 
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