DeletedUser
Mamcat, I believe you are trying to bully people into not plundering, which is after all just playing by the rules. Petition InnoGames to provide no plunder servers if it's such an issue for you.
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DeletedUser1862
I will not attempt to deny your right to your opinion. I will state to make it clear, if I am guilty of bullying anyone, it is to accept and respect the right of others to play with different styles. This thread was initiated regarding the different styles and I made comment within that context. A couple of others made it about bullying, and I was attempting to clarify some perspectives and encourage broader horizons of understanding. I'm sorry that you see it as you do and would remind you of my last statement, that emphasized that differences can be worked out with communication and respect. I have stated repeatedly that I fully respect that there are people that play the game in different ways. How is that bullying?
DeletedUser
Live with it is not text book bullying or rudeness, its reality.
DeletedUser
Indeed it is, and there are many playing styles and personal choices. They do not necessarily have to be yours, and that is something that needs to be accepted. Of course, you can ask people not to plunder you, but it's just as "bad" to force them not to plunder.
If you don't like being plundered, you just have to be smarter
- set your times so that you're sure you'll be there to collect, and if you can't do that, accept that there's a possibility you can be plundered.And no, it's never nice to find that your most expensive goods or houses have been plundered - happened to me time and again. Just shrug though, retaliate if you want, and start again
DeletedUser1862
Indeed it is, and there are many playing styles and personal choices. They do not necessarily have to be yours, and that is something that needs to be accepted. Of course, you can ask people not to plunder you, but it's just as "bad" to force them not to plunder.
I'm confused.:confused: How is the portion quoted (or anything I've said in the thread for that matter) "forcing someone not to plunder" or demonstrating a lack of acceptance of multiple playing style choices?
And while we are at it, here is a brain twister for everyone for the sake of debate: (Whatever way one might believe I seem to achieving this "forceful adherence to my or chivalrous style" aside) How is playing "barbarian" style, attacking and plundering in as described in the initial post, or telling someone to "live with it" any different? That is "forcing" people as you say, to play the game their way is it not?
And before anyone argues that it's not forcing someone to play "Barbarian" style because the game provides the option in the first place, I will remind everyone that, that particular argument easily goes both ways as well because, it is only an option and not required. The game also provides the option to not plunder. There are in fact many people that play without, it's not like I'm the only one. I whole heartedly agree that in some cases one must try all sorts of alternatives and playing smarter certainly numbers among them. I have never said otherwise. I did point out (early on in the thread) that there are other alternatives as well. How is that any different than outlining how one can "play smarter"?
I should think we could discuss and debate, and agree to disagree in the context of a thread discussing different playing styles and not resort to pronouncements of "live with it", pointing fingers and naming a specific person a bully (from which I have pointedly refrained) or concluding that styles not our own are invalid.
For the record: I have never said, people should not be allowed to plunder or play their own style. I have in fact repeatedly stated that I accept there are multiple styles to play.
In spite of what some may think from my participation in numerous similar threads, I did not start this thread, nor did I attempt to turn it into a discussion of bullying.
I have never made statements to invalidate opposing opinions or styles of play. I have only asked that some people consider other perspectives.
I have never pointed a finger and named a name as being a bully (unlike some) & I have repeatedly stated that the key is to accept and communicate.
DeletedUser1032
Point 1: Here's an idea against the so-called bullies... You get together as a neighbourhood, and everyone decides not to do any trades with the bullies. Since fighters need to concentrate on their military, they can't produce everything they need when it comes to goods. If they don't get what they need in order to advance, you're in effect stunting their growth by withdrawing the goods they need to advance in research.
Point 2: But then again, you can't really call anyone a bully if that's what the game allows. They are not cheating, not abusing the system... They're just more active, and they're using what the game gives them, and everyone else gets the same options, and they're using it to pound everyone around them into smithereens. That's their game style, and as an online game, that's what FOE allows.
Point 3: If you don't like point 2, see point 1, do some work and some politics with your neighbours, stop complaining about battles that rob you off your resources. That's part of the game, get used to it.
By the way, all above points come from a guy who does not have any military at all. Do I like getting attacked and plundered? No. Are battles part of the game? Yes. So I got used to the risks of not having any military, get robbed once every few days, record the actions of the plunderer, and talk to my neighbours in order to keep them from doing business with the attackers. Will I ever raise military units? Yes. And you know who's gonna be my first target :-)
Point 2: But then again, you can't really call anyone a bully if that's what the game allows. They are not cheating, not abusing the system... They're just more active, and they're using what the game gives them, and everyone else gets the same options, and they're using it to pound everyone around them into smithereens. That's their game style, and as an online game, that's what FOE allows.
Point 3: If you don't like point 2, see point 1, do some work and some politics with your neighbours, stop complaining about battles that rob you off your resources. That's part of the game, get used to it.
By the way, all above points come from a guy who does not have any military at all. Do I like getting attacked and plundered? No. Are battles part of the game? Yes. So I got used to the risks of not having any military, get robbed once every few days, record the actions of the plunderer, and talk to my neighbours in order to keep them from doing business with the attackers. Will I ever raise military units? Yes. And you know who's gonna be my first target :-)
DeletedUser
Eh! Here.
Seems like your demanding someone should not plunder you, thus trying to force the not to plunder.
DeletedUser1862
Annnd within the context of the discussion, that is different from those that would "force" others to accept the predations of the Barbarianism style player how???? Well, to answer my own question. It's different in the very substantial way that: unlike a friend of mine that was driven from the game by predation early on, said player is still in the game and happily playing and advancing, trading and polishing...
I would point out; a) There was no demanding by any definition of the word. I believe that one is far more likely to capture a fly with honey than vinegar. b) To plunder or not to plunder was and still is the question and choice of the player. I simply pointed out that he had more to loose and far more to gain. It was and remains entirely his choice. It just happens that for the most part, the entire neighborhood has reached an agreement to respect each others styles, (through communication) and what do you know? Everyone seems rather happy and content for the moment. Said player, (who is on my friends list) doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
Will that work for everyone in every neighborhood? Clearly not. Everyday, I find new reasons (in the forums) to be grateful that I have not ended up in a neighborhood that would have me surrounded by an abundance of hard core "barbarian" style players.
DeletedUser
Ahh, sorry for the confusion!
I see that by reading the whole thread up till then before responding, I missed to quote a part you said earlier, but I need to thank Watcher for having seen the correct paragraph! I will not quote it again here, as posts will become unnecessarily lengthy
.Also, "live with it" can be taken in different ways too. It can be sarcasm, but I don't think it was meant that way at all, merely as a matter of fact, as I said myself: just shrug and start again - it wasn't the end of the world. I'm sorry to see that your friend left the game because of plunder, but it is part of the game, so condemning the attacker isn't really fair either
.DeletedUser
In these enlightened times Mamacat it is very easy to take the moral high ground however this game is not played in the context of the 21st century. Even in these modern times there are still nations raping and pillaging others, some of these acts are a metaphor for the activities of the most advanced countries. To avoid the pillaging perhaps you need to consider collecting your goods when they are complete? Build your city to suit your style of play - if you are inactive focus on creating more slow revenue machinations.
If morality was to take some kind of influence on the game maybe slavery could be introduced too? This evil practice is still in effect even today by certain sectors and more so during the historical periods which this game currently runs through. Personally I'd like to see this feature added to provide another potential resource to exploit along with gold, supplies and resources. The additional bodies could be added to the populace of the victors city which would affect happiness as well (a slave would count as 2 people on the happiness index for example) Maybe this aspect would be a little controversial for yourself Mamacat but I'm just hypothesising here.
Also it is standard practice within any form of warfare to utilise any form of technical advance to your advantage so complaining about LMA units vs Stone age is just one of the facts of life in these situations - if you have an advantage use it - after all the players who start on the same neighbourhood will all have started at the same time. I'm not telling anyone how to play the game but to get the best results activity is normally a key factor in any online scenario. This practice was also used to tremendous effect during the period of the British Empire when just a handful of men ran whole continents.
Finally on the chivalry aspect, Knights generally like to have their over abundant egos massaged and this usually involves some kind of homage (or at least the supply of the prettiest damsel in the village to perform aforesaid) so perhaps to make this work ingame the village in need of the protection racket set up by this bunch of steel-clad leering womanisers should offer up some form of favour (usually in advance) in the form of either forge-points, gold or supplies - the more advanced the protection the higher the cost. The so-called "Barbarians" have invested heavily in ensuring that their city has been developed to support the costs of creating such units and I am a firm believer in there is no such thing as a free meal. Why do you think that Prince John took such a bad rap during the time of the crusades? All that the common folk saw was this new-fangled tax system that had been formulated by the younger brother of a King who saw it fit to disappear to the eastern part of the Mediterranean with his drinking buddies but needed the people of the country to support him on this escapade. Prince John (a mere boy by comparison who had been bred for church duties) was vilified for this when all the time it was "Good King Richard" who was really to blame for the austerity forced on his people.
To sustain any form of war effort what really counts is having your own people behind you, and to cause the collapse of a civilisation enlightenment. Those who don’t prepare for conflict will ultimately become the oppressed as has been witnessed time and again across the history of the world.
If morality was to take some kind of influence on the game maybe slavery could be introduced too? This evil practice is still in effect even today by certain sectors and more so during the historical periods which this game currently runs through. Personally I'd like to see this feature added to provide another potential resource to exploit along with gold, supplies and resources. The additional bodies could be added to the populace of the victors city which would affect happiness as well (a slave would count as 2 people on the happiness index for example) Maybe this aspect would be a little controversial for yourself Mamacat but I'm just hypothesising here.
Also it is standard practice within any form of warfare to utilise any form of technical advance to your advantage so complaining about LMA units vs Stone age is just one of the facts of life in these situations - if you have an advantage use it - after all the players who start on the same neighbourhood will all have started at the same time. I'm not telling anyone how to play the game but to get the best results activity is normally a key factor in any online scenario. This practice was also used to tremendous effect during the period of the British Empire when just a handful of men ran whole continents.
Finally on the chivalry aspect, Knights generally like to have their over abundant egos massaged and this usually involves some kind of homage (or at least the supply of the prettiest damsel in the village to perform aforesaid) so perhaps to make this work ingame the village in need of the protection racket set up by this bunch of steel-clad leering womanisers should offer up some form of favour (usually in advance) in the form of either forge-points, gold or supplies - the more advanced the protection the higher the cost. The so-called "Barbarians" have invested heavily in ensuring that their city has been developed to support the costs of creating such units and I am a firm believer in there is no such thing as a free meal. Why do you think that Prince John took such a bad rap during the time of the crusades? All that the common folk saw was this new-fangled tax system that had been formulated by the younger brother of a King who saw it fit to disappear to the eastern part of the Mediterranean with his drinking buddies but needed the people of the country to support him on this escapade. Prince John (a mere boy by comparison who had been bred for church duties) was vilified for this when all the time it was "Good King Richard" who was really to blame for the austerity forced on his people.
To sustain any form of war effort what really counts is having your own people behind you, and to cause the collapse of a civilisation enlightenment. Those who don’t prepare for conflict will ultimately become the oppressed as has been witnessed time and again across the history of the world.
DeletedUser2770
well
there are many very good answers written above,with some i agree more,some less
i just want to add this:
as it is,this ""beta"" is more like simcity game than a battle field. and then there were no known empires just existing out there on their own h(i)eppines without battleing around to make one.
and the battle system here is ludicrous,AI's a dummy at it's best.
'till there's a way to realy battle PvP (not ai),plundering is a realy feasible award you can get.
make those seage weapons able to destroy some buildings in the city at least (if PvP cant make it up from PvAI!) or make military assault do some real threat.
make it a war game or a SIM, this masshup of the two is hardly to be enjoyed.
to those wheening about being plundered: be active and time your productions well.
to those who plunder: boys,there are better war games out there,where you might be kicked back realy good.
there are many very good answers written above,with some i agree more,some less
i just want to add this:
as it is,this ""beta"" is more like simcity game than a battle field. and then there were no known empires just existing out there on their own h(i)eppines without battleing around to make one.
and the battle system here is ludicrous,AI's a dummy at it's best.
'till there's a way to realy battle PvP (not ai),plundering is a realy feasible award you can get.
make those seage weapons able to destroy some buildings in the city at least (if PvP cant make it up from PvAI!) or make military assault do some real threat.
make it a war game or a SIM, this masshup of the two is hardly to be enjoyed.
to those wheening about being plundered: be active and time your productions well.
to those who plunder: boys,there are better war games out there,where you might be kicked back realy good.
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DeletedUser
I would expect the victims of the bullying to deal with it the same in which I had to; by investing time, money (coins) & resources (supplies) in military defense. When I started out I was innocent and moral. I set out to produce goods to trade with the cpu & other players to get through. After I had become victimised several times, I learnt that I could not afford to ignore the need for strong military units to defend the empire in my absence. I think its good that people can bully (Although I'm completely against bullying in the real world) as it forces people to re-think their strategies and change their game and essentially grow as players. And most players are not looking for a real fight, so long as you have units which present a problem for most if not all categories you may be safe as it is mostly the opportunity which tempts them. I still have my morals to some degree and usually attack nobody just starting out, and only attack when trades are unsuccessful and seemingly left with no other option (the only option would be to wait a while longer, which sometimes is not acceptable) But those who leave themselves completely vulnerable will lose out, and I haven't really attacked the same people more than once or twice (excluding rivals for gloating purposes) because they improved their military considerably and if you are trying to advance your empire you can not afford to lose your soldiers in battle for 1 stone lol
DeletedUser
All players are diferent. Somebody trading, producing, somebody (like me) taking these goods. My 15 military buildings produce much more goods than any factory. At the same time every battle gives me points. 30 battles per day and don't need any trading
DeletedUser4483
Im only playing just over a week and have grown into the iron age .... my favorite part is the fighting and plundering option to win the medals for the expansion .... never felt like a defenseless newbee who couldnt defend themselves.
I have attacked people who are higher than me and they only defend with two soldiers ... bad idea for them ... others have done this then next time put in a full defense .... better plan as some have defended there goods.
im the worst kind of plunderer though ... cant be bothered yet with the coin or supplies i go back and forth to see if they leave there stone or dye or such for me to take .... If it means that much it shouldnt be left around for someone to plunder .... i myself make sure to pick a time im going to be on the computer when my goods of Dye and marble are ready so as not to have them plundered.
I attack loads and am in a battle with one other for the most points to win the medals ... hes really putting in the effort .... he has nearly twice as many battles won as me but i am ahead on points .....
Do i want to see the system changed ... Absolutely not .... its a game and i cant understand how people can complain about it being a form of bullying .... i came form the Grepolis games where its war war war .... saw no complaints of bullying there .... and in that game you had teams of players that could attack you all at the same time .....
Here you get attacked and if you loose you get one item plundered ... but you dont loose your soldiers .... and you only loose your coins or supplies if you dont bother to collect them ........ pretty easy let off .... i was thinking the winning army should be able to plunder unused slots of land and tax the player for them .... that would kind of cool too.
Anyway im off to build my empire .. aquire lots of land ... a big army and plunder lots of stone and marble dye and whatever else others leave lying around.
Even worse just attacked a lad and he had two spear fighters defending ... easy victory .. he has 3 good supply buildings like wine and rock ... but worst of all he has two soldier barricks and not even using them in defense of his Empire .... Not much point in having these then is it.
I have attacked people who are higher than me and they only defend with two soldiers ... bad idea for them ... others have done this then next time put in a full defense .... better plan as some have defended there goods.
im the worst kind of plunderer though ... cant be bothered yet with the coin or supplies i go back and forth to see if they leave there stone or dye or such for me to take .... If it means that much it shouldnt be left around for someone to plunder .... i myself make sure to pick a time im going to be on the computer when my goods of Dye and marble are ready so as not to have them plundered.
I attack loads and am in a battle with one other for the most points to win the medals ... hes really putting in the effort .... he has nearly twice as many battles won as me but i am ahead on points .....
Do i want to see the system changed ... Absolutely not .... its a game and i cant understand how people can complain about it being a form of bullying .... i came form the Grepolis games where its war war war .... saw no complaints of bullying there .... and in that game you had teams of players that could attack you all at the same time .....
Here you get attacked and if you loose you get one item plundered ... but you dont loose your soldiers .... and you only loose your coins or supplies if you dont bother to collect them ........ pretty easy let off .... i was thinking the winning army should be able to plunder unused slots of land and tax the player for them .... that would kind of cool too.
Anyway im off to build my empire .. aquire lots of land ... a big army and plunder lots of stone and marble dye and whatever else others leave lying around.
Even worse just attacked a lad and he had two spear fighters defending ... easy victory .. he has 3 good supply buildings like wine and rock ... but worst of all he has two soldier barricks and not even using them in defense of his Empire .... Not much point in having these then is it.
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DeletedUser653
Sorry Mink, but i start at the biggest player and attack him, I then carry on all the way down to the weakest player. I sack without care and if theres nothing worth having I come back 2 hours later and look again.
I cannot take prisoners and the way the game plays currently, its player V's player.
A good weaker player can leave defence in place and by the time i get down the list i normally just have archers left so it gets slightly fairer and they might kill a archer or 2 during the attack. The only damage he will get is a plunder and if hes good at managing his collecting then there will be no plunder for me!
Sorry but the game is called "Forge of Empires" not cuddle thy neigbour and i treat all players equally and if anything I attack the bigger players a lot more oftern as they normally give a better battle and more points.
EDIT:
I cannot take prisoners and the way the game plays currently, its player V's player.
A good weaker player can leave defence in place and by the time i get down the list i normally just have archers left so it gets slightly fairer and they might kill a archer or 2 during the attack. The only damage he will get is a plunder and if hes good at managing his collecting then there will be no plunder for me!
Sorry but the game is called "Forge of Empires" not cuddle thy neigbour and i treat all players equally and if anything I attack the bigger players a lot more oftern as they normally give a better battle and more points.
EDIT:
I totally agree and its a much faster way of building up goods, I am sitting on 18 military buildings from archers upAll players are diferent. Somebody trading, producing, somebody (like me) taking these goods. My 15 military buildings produce much more goods than any factory. At the same time every battle gives me points. 30 battles per day and don't need any trading
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DeletedUser
The way the game is set up, it can be a wonderfully competitive, yet cooperative game.
Trading? Both parties benefit.
Polishing and motivating? Both parties benefit.
Fighting? Attacker gets points, defender loses nothing.
Plundering is literally the only place where it can be made into a zero-sum scenario. I really don't understand why it's such a draw for some folks.
DeletedUser
Great idea
DeletedUser653
What else is there to do to gain expansion units? By design of the game i have to gain PVP points and currently only have 381 but I need 2000 for my next slot, thats a lot of PVP points which can only be gained by fighting lots of other players.
On top of that it about the only thing going for it when you are at the end of the map and tree - theres nothing else to do but attack other players and plunder! I just wish I could knock a few defensive buildings down to save a few troops!
DeletedUser
Oh, I attack quite a bit, I just don't do the actual plundering.
I understand that it's a part of the game, and so I don't whine about people who do it. But when I attack, I'll just go back to my city. The plundering bit is what makes it zero-sum. By attacking without plundering, I get battle points and the defender loses nothing, so it's win-win (or win-'not lose' if you prefer).
If people plunder me I'll go back to their city, plunder something, and send a note to the effect of, "Hey, I'd rather play without plundering, but if you steal from me I'm going to steal from you."
I understand that it's a part of the game, and so I don't whine about people who do it. But when I attack, I'll just go back to my city. The plundering bit is what makes it zero-sum. By attacking without plundering, I get battle points and the defender loses nothing, so it's win-win (or win-'not lose' if you prefer).
If people plunder me I'll go back to their city, plunder something, and send a note to the effect of, "Hey, I'd rather play without plundering, but if you steal from me I'm going to steal from you."
DeletedUser653
Come on, its a "empire building game" a bit of attacking and plundering never did any harm (as the viking said!) ?
I get plundered by a few players, it costs them dear in troops (I hope) but they want the PVP points and if I have uncollected silk then they might well plunder it, thats my own fault for not collecting it and part of the game. They do not send me silly notes and understand the game very well.
Lifes not a win/win game and nether is Forgeof Empires!
I get plundered by a few players, it costs them dear in troops (I hope) but they want the PVP points and if I have uncollected silk then they might well plunder it, thats my own fault for not collecting it and part of the game. They do not send me silly notes and understand the game very well.
Lifes not a win/win game and nether is Forgeof Empires!
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