100% vs 120% happiness

[DeletedUser]

Personally I prefer to keep my happiness at 120% and have people boost my production buildings instead - much easier to keep from getting too much pop for the happiness after the boost expires that way. I also prefer to use the happiness per square ratio for determining what happiness buildings I need - I can always make up the difference in resources later.

 

[DeletedUser1688]

Hm,I have two public baths and one marketplace building atm,with roads that shoud be about 120% but what I find is worst of all, if we talk about happiness, is that you have only 50% if you are low wich is not corect it shoud be at least 80% couse max happiness is 120% ......

 

[DeletedUser]

Hm,I have two public baths and one marketplace building atm,with roads that shoud be about 120% but what I find is worst of all, if we talk about happiness, is that you have only 50% if you are low wich is not corect it shoud be at least 80% couse max happiness is 120% ......

I didn't understood that with 50%, 80%...
I was thinking at the same thing lately. How much is worth to keep cultural buildings and decorations for 120% productivity. I have done some math and maybe fellow posters here can check if is right.

I will start with my concrete case. I have 27 houses, 5 butchers and 3 tanneries, 6 taverns and some decorations and Gravel roads which gives 10 happiness per square which means that if I didn't have this road I had to build more cultural buildings. My total population is 1857 and available 9 which means that if I want to build something else I have to make houses also. My demand for happiness is 1857x1.4=2599.8 and now I have 2617. This means that is close to the limit so I can't be "accused" to have to many taverns.
For the rest of the math I have used HaekelHansi guide which is always very helpful.
I have 19 Frame houses and 8 Cottage. I will use for simplicity 27 Frame houses (meaning all the same) and because Frame house has a higher production per square and hour.
At 100%: 60/4=15 Coins per square and hour.
At 120%: 15+20%= 18 Coins per square and hour.
27 houses x 4 squares each = 108 squares occupied by my houses.
108x15=1620 (100%) ; 18x108=1944 (120). This being the total production.
1944-1620=324 this being what I lose if I leave out 120% productivity and I renounce to my cultural buildings and decorations.
324/15=21,6 the squares I occupy building more houses to compensate 120% to 100% difference. 21,6/4=5,4=6 houses.
A tavern occupies 9 squares: 21,6/9= 2,4 taverns.

Now with the production buildings.
5 butchers x 12 sq=60 squares. At a 15 minutes cycle a butcher produces 80 supplies at 100% happines.
80+20%= 96 (120%).
80/12=6.6 supplies per square at 100%.
96/12=8 supplies per square at 120%.
80x5=400;96x5=480. 480-400=80 supplies, the difference of production for my butchers from 120% to 100%.
80/6.6=12.12 squares.
For Tannery is the same amount at 15 minutes the difference is that a tannery occupies 9 squares.

3 tannery x 9 = 27 sq.
80/9=8.88 supplies per square at 100%.
96/9=10.66 supplies per square at 120%.
80x3=240; 96x3=288; 288-240=48. supplies the difference of production for my tanneries from 120% to 100%.
48/8.88=5.4 squares.

I hope I written so you can follow. If you followed we take the squares from the above: 21.6; 12.12; 5.4
21.6+12.12+5.4= 39,12 rounded up 40 squares.
I have 6 taverns x 9 squares = 54 squares. So if get rid of them I get 54 sq and I have to build houses and productions buildings that takes 40 squares to compensate. 14 squares difference in my advantage and I don't lose money and supplies building cultural buildings.

Indeed is interesting and important to do the math for Market place>Shoemaker>Brownstone house. Maybe I will do it and get back to you. But for me after this math happiness boost for productivity is just a mirage. Is true that neighbors can polish some cultural building for instance and you don't have to build so many cultural buildings but is not continuous, may times I found my self without 120% so I don't rely on my neighbors . And it doesn't matter because the neighbors can also motivate to double the production of a building so... Goods buildings are not affected by this 20% bonus as far as I know...

PS. I forgot to ask. I don't know if you get a penalty for having to less happiness. ???

 

[DeletedUser]

Maybe you should also take into consideration the fact that with the way the town's grid is laid out and expanded in the future, that is that it will always have an even number of grids either side, not ALL squares can be immediately utilized for housing and industry. There will always be some odd nook, somewhere out there which needs to be filled, and doesn't have enough space(a 2x1 odd space for example, or a 1x2) to fit in the necessary number of buildings and make them functional (connection to roads). Oh and one more thing in your example, you used Frame houses for example, they will house lesser people than what you have said in your example, hence little demand for happiness = lesser cultural buildings than your 6 taverns(personally I prefer the T arch + 6 monuments over the tavern, or if I have the luxury of space, the Public Bath, of course the marketplace supersedes all of the aforementioned).

 

[DeletedUser]

I do think they need to buff it a bit as the extra 20% is a bit low for the additional 40% you need to get it to encourage people to use it or give a penalty for not having it, say buildings work at 75% for having under the 140% but at or above 100% as below that is a huge penalty.

Maybe make goods buildings get a bonus also or bring the 140% needed to 120% so you pay the same and get the same bonus.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree. They can even make it dynamic so production will equal to the happiness/population ratio at any given moment with a sort of maximum limit like 140% or something....

 

[DeletedUser]

Maybe you should also take into consideration the fact that with the way the town's grid is laid out and expanded in the future, that is that it will always have an even number of grids either side, not ALL squares can be immediately utilized for housing and industry. There will always be some odd nook, somewhere out there which needs to be filled, and doesn't have enough space(a 2x1 odd space for example, or a 1x2) to fit in the necessary number of buildings and make them functional (connection to roads). Oh and one more thing in your example, you used Frame houses for example, they will house lesser people than what you have said in your example, hence little demand for happiness = lesser cultural buildings than your 6 taverns(personally I prefer the T arch + 6 monuments over the tavern, or if I have the luxury of space, the Public Bath, of course the marketplace supersedes all of the aforementioned).

1. You are talking about space optimization which is a different matter. They are other topics about this and indeed we always have to think how to optimize space, but it doesn't change cultural buildings over more free space.
2. Yes, I used Frame house in my example but I still need the population that I have right now and even more. How I said, I have 9 available population so I can't delete/sell houses to reduce the population. So you see, this changes nothing, only the revenue from each type of house. And this is another plus for not heaving to deal with happiness, you can build how many houses you like and have how much population you want without concern about happiness level and adding more cultural buildings/decorations.
I haven't made my mind yet about each case 100% or 120% but you make the case for 100% actually to be more lucrative. I don't know if that was your intention. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[DeletedUser]

PS. I forgot to ask. I don't know if you get a penalty for having to less happiness. ???

If provided happiness is lower than the demand for happiness you only have 50% productivity. I haven't tested if it also has an influence on battles.

 

[DeletedUser]

What I'm saying is that what you wrote above was kinda specious to begin with since you used all frame houses for an example, when in fact you're using your six taverns to keep your population, which is higher than what 27 frame houses could accommodate, enthusiastic. Since you have lesser population(in your example of 27 frame houses), you'll naturally be occupying lesser space to keep them enthusiastic and the difference in space (squares) may not be that significant to compensate for the loss in production if you don't keep them enthusiastic and instead go build more production buildings(houses included). Besides, you can't really fit 6 houses in 22 squares now can you?

There's also a penalty of 50% production if you go way below 100% happiness(you asked?).

 

[DeletedUser]

PS. I forgot to ask. I don't know if you get a penalty for having to less happiness. ???

I have my answer: you get a penalty. Ie. your people can be Angry and your productivity is at 50%. All that math for nothing
In this case I don't think I need to do math anymore only for 120%-100% difference. Is kind of obvious that is not feasible.

Do you know if the people can be more than enthusiastic?

PS. Thanks Randgris and random for you answers. I have posted after you and I didn't see.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have my answer: you get a penalty. Ie. your people can be Angry and your productivity is at 50%. All that math for nothing
In this case I don't think I need to do math anymore only for 120%-100% difference. Is kind of obvious that is not feasible.

Do you know if the people can be more than enthusiastic?

PS. Thanks Randgris and random for you answers. I have posted after you and I didn't see.

Dancing Half naked men and female hookers

 

[DeletedUser]

@hyperion1S

you would still need to have some cultutal buildings because if you dont provide the requested happyness your production will be cut in a half. You would have to multiply the number of houses and supplies production by 2 to compensate, which will cost you a lot of squares.

In my case :

I have 42 brownstone house giving a population of 3948, and the happyness needed to get the bonus is 5527. I actually provide 5528 happyness (3760 from cultural buildings, 173 from decorations, 1595 from roads). This yields an income of 4536 coins per hour.

To get the same income without the bonus i would need to have 51 brownstone houses, for a population of 4794. To provide this happyness, I would save around 2 market places. It would save 18 squares which would be taken by the extra houses needed. Add to this the increase in supplies production building, i would actually loose by not providing the bonus happyness.

 

[DeletedUser1606]

Let's try some things!

Cottages:


Tile Frame Houses:


I'd say 120% is great in many cases.

Rule of thumb: The more citizens there are in a home, the less gain you get from 120%. At end-game, 100% might even be better, of course depending on your type of "happiness buildings".