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GB balancing changes--Feedback thread

DeletedUser14471

Remorce said:
the testing on the beta server is solely for coding conflict testing. if the code works then minor changes have little ramification on how the coding interacts. Its not for getting to know how it all works and how every interaction is.

Hence why the rules try to steer discussion on other servers away as things may change before they get to this server which makes discussion on it moot.
Click to expand...

Alright, if it's only to test the coding, why on earth does Sovereign ask the following on the beta server forum 'Guild battles feedback thread)?

Quote:
We would love to know what you think, especially with regards to the following questions:

•Your overall opinion of the feature. Is there any part of the feature that really doesn't "work" for you?
•Do you think any aspects are too easy or too hard? If so, which and why.
•Is there any functionality in the UI that, in your opinion, should be improved upon?
•Anything else you'd like to mention.



Thank you for helping to improve Forge of Empires!


He clearly asks us feedback about features that are too easy or too hard! This has nothing to do with bugs due to coding. So, if they change the bonuses given by GB's, that guild feedback thread is pretty much useless, because at a much lower attack bonus, there is no doubt a lot of people would have replied to that thread saying that it was much too hard to get sectors with 50% or 75% bonus!
 

DeletedUser96867

Remorce said:
its not a new coding as such there was no need to test coding interaction which is what the beta server is for. As for player suggestions and feedback I have no idea as thats up to the developers if they think they require that.

This is a change of the current coding to a similar coding with different parameters. Beta server is to test new coding and how it interacts to see if new bugs are formed due to coding conflict. If it was new coding then yes I can see it getting tested there.
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem. There is no test to see if something is a good idea or if it works well, just to fix the bugs in a code. Why bother fixing the problems in the code for a feature which doesn't work the way it is currently designed? Why not attempt to fix the design issues before introducing a feature to every server. This makes absolutely no sense at all. I can add 2x2 and it now makes sense why there are so many features of this game which haven't been thought though.
 

DeletedUser

ddevil said:
Why was this feature not tested on the BETA till now after months of GvG launching over there... why was players suggestions and feedback not taken on the BETA itself and instead was announced on the LIVE servers first ?? ... Need a honest and if possible polite answer ...becoz these questions have really baffled me ...i mean such a big change surely had to be tested on a beta server first before even announcing it to the live servers ...thats how everything was till now isnt it?? ...so why suddenly this change now ?? ...I think players would have got a better idea on how things work with these new changes and a lot of these heated discussions and bans and threads removing /restoring and posts deleting maybe could have been avoided that way ...
Click to expand...
I think I understood it:

Developers are 100% sure that they have better understanding of what will make the game better than the player's base.

If you assume this point of view, everything becomes logical. You don't need to test balances in the game, because you know better than players what is good. Beta server is only to test code and catch programming bugs. Changing GB stats does not change code, so no need in additional testing. It also explains why there is no interest in player's feedback. Developers know better. No need to listen to players.

Understand this, and it will save you a lot of nerves. No matter what you will write here, it will not reach developers' ears and will not change anything. Accept the changes as inevitable. Adapt if the game is still interesting for you. Leave if the game moved to far from what you liked.
 

DeletedUser96867

Ggryvi said:
. No matter what you will write here, it will not reach developers' ears and will not change anything.
Click to expand...

That has become crystal clear. Wonder if the developers will notice gvg is a total flop on all the servers, even worse than it is on beta.
 

DeletedUser96867

Pembar said:
What are the rewards for gvg anyway?
Click to expand...

Currently there are fp, reduced unit training time and reduced building(coin/supply) costs are the rewards for guilds in gvg. I checked a few days ago the 9th ranked guild in gvg on the beta server(all ages combined) each player got 1fp a day, 4hr train time was reduced to 3:46minutes, (2hrs trains to 1:53), don't know about the % reduction in building costs. However this is a guild who has spend several hundred thousand (my guess is between 100k and 300k maybe higher) goods to take part in gvg to this point. As things stand on beta gvg battle points do not go towards pvp towers, so there are no player point, or medal rewards for gvg participation.
 

DeletedUser276

Sonia1 said:
Alright, if it's only to test the coding, why on earth does Sovereign ask the following on the beta server forum 'Guild battles feedback thread)?
Click to expand...

thats his perogative as thats his server. If you have a question about beta server please ask on the beta server.

Ggryvi said:
it will not reach developers' ears and will not change anything.
Click to expand...

And yet some of the changes that were going to happen before were stopped due to public outcry. The problem is trying to figure out if its a real issue or people who make phrases like that that make a mountain out of a mole hill. Its a hard task.
 

ddevil

Chief Warrant Officer
Remorce said:
The problem is trying to figure out if its a real issue or people who make phrases like that that make a mountain out of a mole hill. Its a hard task.
Click to expand...

Actually its very easy... Just had to test the feature on the BETA Server to know the outcome before announcing on live servers ... atleast would have given a better idea if not the full issue .... just my way of thinking ...
 

DeletedUser276

as previously stated the beta server is a test server for new coding not changed features. It is there to test the interaction of new coding with existing coding. Not to test new features to see how they interact.
 

DeletedUser

ddevil said:
Actually its very easy... Just had to test the feature on the BETA Server to know the outcome before announcing on live servers ... atleast would have given a better idea if not the full issue .... just my way of thinking ...
Click to expand...
Space Needless was tested on beta. Result - everything works as intended, no bugs. There were some players that made mountain out of a mole hill, but they were successfully ignored.
 

DeletedUser96867

Remorce said:
as previously stated the beta server is a test server for new coding not changed features. It is there to test the interaction of new coding with existing coding. Not to test new features to see how they interact.
Click to expand...

And as evidence previous posted from beta clearly shows that is not the case, but we aren't allowed to talk about that.
 

DeletedUser14471

Remorce said:
thats his perogative as thats his server. If you have a question about beta server please ask on the beta server.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? You just said the beta server is only to test coding. Now you're saying that it's soverign's server? If it's Soverign's server and Sovereign asks us to give feedback about what is too easy, too hard,... then it's clear that Soverign's server is not only meant to test coding but also for us to give feedback about the new features!!
 

ddevil

Chief Warrant Officer
Remorce said:
as previously stated the beta server is a test server for new coding not changed features. It is there to test the interaction of new coding with existing coding. Not to test new features to see how they interact.
Click to expand...

I did understand that Remorse ...I was just trying to give a suggestion that for the hard task of knowing whether any issue is for real or making a mountain out of a mole in new features can be made easy if tested on a beta server ... I understood this game does not do that when u informed me before and thats why this issue has blown out of proportions because most of us are still in dark how it will be when it hits this server ...most of us are only imagining calculating and contemplating on the outcomes without knowing how it will be in reality and in future prospects of the game ...
 

DeletedUser276

Sonia1 said:
What do you mean? You just said the beta server is only to test coding. Now you're saying that it's soverign's server? If it's Soverign's server and Sovereign asks us to give feedback about what is too easy, too hard,... than it's clear that Soverign's server is not only meant to test coding!!
Click to expand...

I will answer this about the beta server and that will be all.

The questions he asks are about NEW features and NEW coding. The feedback from that goes to the devs. If the developers require the feedback they will get it from him. As this is not new coding there is no need to test it on beta before it goes live as mathematically its sound from the developers viewpoints. He doesnt ask about pre existing content (this came directly from Soverign as I asked him to review your question you posted here)

Now please refrain from discussion the beta server further. If you have questions about the Beta server please ask them on the beta server.
 

ddevil

Chief Warrant Officer
Ggryvi said:
Space Needless was tested on beta. Result - everything works as intended, no bugs. There were some players that made mountain out of a mole hill, but they were successfully ignored.
Click to expand...

Players were not happy with the rewards that GB gave ... they did not alter it once everybody bought / built it .... thats a different issue buddy ... building it or not the choice was given to us from the start ...Also we knew beforehand what was going to come and most of us were prepared to an extent already ...even though players were not happy with it the issue did not blow out of proportions like for this new feature .... this one has upset everybody and it came as a shock to everybody ...including those who have had spend lots of time and effort in testing out the GvG on the beta server for Innogames... and now they give a complete different new feature of which nobody was aware directly on the live servers....
 

DeletedUser

ddevil said:
Players were not happy with the rewards that GB gave ... they did not alter it once everybody bought / built it .... thats a different issue buddy ... building it or not the choice was given to us from the start ...Also we knew beforehand what was going to come and most of us were prepared to an extent already ...even though players were not happy with it the issue did not blow out of proportions like for this new feature .... this one has upset everybody and it came as a shock to everybody ...including those who have had spend lots of time and effort in testing out the GvG on the beta server for Innogames... and now they give a complete different new feature of which nobody was aware directly on the live servers....
Click to expand...
I understand the difference of scales of these issues, and that changing existing features smells differently than adding new ones, but approach is the same: Mathematically it's sound from the developers viewpoints + no code bugs = go live.
 

DeletedUser14471

Remorce said:
I will answer this about the beta server and that will be all.

The questions he asks are about NEW features and NEW coding. The feedback from that goes to the devs. If the developers require the feedback they will get it from him. As this is not new coding there is no need to test it on beta before it goes live as mathematically its sound from the developers viewpoints. He doesnt ask about pre existing content (this came directly from Soverign as I asked him to review your question you posted here)

Now please refrain from discussion the beta server further. If you have questions about the Beta server please ask them on the beta server.
Click to expand...

I will only say this, and after that, I will "refrain" from commenting any further! I'm sorry, but really, don't you understand where the problem is in what you are saying? I now have 105% attack bonus on the beta server and for me, there's nothing that I would call "too hard" on the GvG wars. So, I didn't post any comment about that on the thread on the beta server (I did post a comment that said the rewards were too low and not worth the hassle). But if my 105% attack bonus woud suddenly become a 63% bonus and that the sectors on the map would have the same bonus, I would have posted on that thread that it's virtually impossible to conquer a HQ!! So, yes, that would be an element of the GvG that would be "too hard", which is EXACTLY the question Sovereign is asking! What is the point of asking such questions if you're gonna change the principle? And I understand that the coding is not new, but you cannot deny that attack and defense GB's are an integral (AND very important) part of the GvG. How can you ask people to give you feedback about that, when the principle is gonna be different anyways? Really, if that's gonna be it, I'm not participating in the guild wars, you are making the guild wars even less attractive (and they were already almost not attractive given the VERY poor reward for the very high costs)...Why bother... Anyway, this is my last post on this thread and do whatever you want with it, you can just ignore it and say that you are right and I am wrong, as that's the way it always is...
 

DeletedUser

I can post again. Thankyou.

Remorse - I do apologise for what you have deemed to be antagonistic remarks last night. I know that you have a tough job, especially last night where you were overwhelmed with negative feedback. I do maintain though the gist of what I stated in my now never to be again post due to its removal - Your post stating 'lol do you really think this is a discussion?' was the most antagonistic post of the night and showed disrespect to your members (customers). I also agree with madnat's post from tonight where she suggests that your description of your customers' feedback as 'side noise' is similarly antagonistic.

Moving past that. And moving beyond the fact that I personally and many others think that these changes are not well thought out, detrimental to the game and detrimental to you from a business perspective. I have one fundamental point/question to make/ask-

You seemed startled by the amount of negative responses you received last night over such a short space of time. So much so that you had little choice but to shut the thread down. The thread has re-opened today with exactly the same negative feedback from just as many experienced players. Does this in any may send a message to FoE? Does the feedback that we are giving you mean anything? Or are we all in here essentially wasting our time in trying our best to give you feedback/help you in trying to make the game one which we all continue to enjoy playing?

Thanks in advance, Rob
 
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