Small guilds in GbG

[Hindersplit the Elder]

I posted a comment and questions to Inno Games a while ago. Their response was “We appreciate your feedback on this topic! While we cannot guarantee any changes which will or will not be made, we will be sure to pass on your feedback”. Yah right. Then the said “We would also encourage you to post your feedback on our dedicated forum thread also”. I can only assume that they want to see how many others feel as I do. So below is my post, slightly modified and updated:



I’m in a small guild. We are active in GbG. The changes you made to GbG were not really helpful to smaller guilds. Let me explain.



Our guild is currently ranked 34 and we have 9 members. In a season recently passed we were grouped with guilds that were: ranked #1 with 79 members, ranked #5 with 75 members, ranked #6 with 61 members, ranked #14 with 25 members, ranked #23 with 27 members, ranked #29 with 32 members.



In our current season we are grouped with guilds that are: ranked #5 with 78 members, ranked #18 with 71 members, ranked #17 with 37 members, ranked #30 with 64 members, ranked #37 with 39 members, ranked #39 with 64 members. Once again my guild is ranked 34 with 9 members. The two larger guilds are in an all-out battle to take and keep 1st place. In doing so, as soon as one guild’s sector opens the other guild rapidly loads and closes it before we can load it even halfway. As such we never gain a sector; we only have our home sector, and we have very few fights/negotiations.

As you can clearly see the large guilds at the top of the ranking still dominate GbG and close any sectors that open before smaller guilds can load them. It doesn’t matter how good you are at fighting, or how good your boost stats are, you will never get many rewards in GbG in diamond league. Not everyone wants to be in a large guild. But through GbG you are forcing them into it. We constantly get requests from medium sized guilds to merge with them so that they can have a large guild.

You keep GE competitive by having guilds of the approximately same size compete against each other. If not it would be an obvious advantage to the smaller guilds. You stated that the changes you made were for more players to be able to be active in GbG. That still doesn’t work for smaller guilds. Why don’t you do the same thing to GbG, which is obviously a huge advantage to larger guilds? Guilds would only compete against other guilds that are a) in the same guild member quantity range first and then b) the same ranking range. As you keep moving up in ranking you will start to face tougher guilds of approximately the same size.

 

[Paladiac the Pure]

Your comment is one of many - and maybe you should do some research and see what others have said, and how others replied.
At the end of the day - it is your choice to remain in a smaller guild. Just because you are in a smaller guild does not mean you would be treated 'equally' if you were matched against other similar sized guilds. Some guilds (big and small) are active, some only so-so active and some are just barely alive - so even if you were matched with other guilds of only 9 members (as an example), some would be the beasts taking over the map, and some would continue to get only crumbs.
The changes to GbG should have helped you out - in the very least, allowing those who 'choose' to participate in GbG, can now have more opportunities, i.e. more fights, than they did previously - due to the increased number of points required to take a sector - which on its own is a very big help.
If you want to remain small and competitive, then compete where you can - probably in a silver level or so, maybe gold. Diamond league is meant for the top dogs - if you cannot compete in Diamond because you are not big enough, or active enough - that is the choice of your guild. You can grow or you can stay leashed up by the more active guilds. You want to stay small and stagnant, then learn to accept to live by your decision, or alter your decision and find the path that will lead to what you want.
One other thing to learn to do - is make alliances with other guilds, so when you are matched up with alliance members, you can use the resources of each alliance member to improve GbG for all in your group. You do not want to do that - again, your choice.

 

[Ariana Erosaire]

People have been asking for the matchmaking to be improved for over 4 years. Anyway it makes sense to match on something other than league points, but even more sense than member count would be to match guilds based on how many fights/negs they typically do, and averaged over seasons it would put guilds into similar groups (it is possible a 40 member guild fights the same as a 20 member guild because half the first guild doesn't like GBG, so you need to look deeper, though member count could still be added as a factor.)

One drawback to doing that would be that you get pigeonholed into being with the same few guilds over and over every season and it would take a dramatic change over time to move you out of your matchmaking rut. But now that they have added the tournaments that run for 3 months this fight-count and member-count factor could reset every 3 months and give people a chance to shake it up a few times a year without "feeding them to the lions" the entire 3 months as it happens now with random league matching.

You'd really think that over all this time someone would have though of a better matching system to implement but, you know they care most about how to sell event passes and monetize the game, so is it really that surprising? No.

 

[Forwandert]

The latest dedicated thread for gbg is in the link below. There has been a few threads. There's no doubt players in the same situations posting ideas/feedback in that thread though.

New Content - Guild Battlegrounds Update 2023 Feedback Thread

You heard correctly, the changes to GBG will be coming with the next season. Read all about it here, and post any feedback below.

forum.en.forgeofempires.com

 

[Nidwin]

If you want to remain small and competitive, then compete where you can - probably in a silver level or so, maybe gold.

OP reaches regularly diamond league so I doubt gold let alone silver is where his 9 folks guild is going to compete. This is probably high tier platinum league.

It's a general problem in all leagues, giving us often extremely mismatched battlegrounds but that's how Inno seems to want it.

 

[Hindersplit the Elder]

I posted a comment and questions to Inno Games a while ago. Their response was “We appreciate your feedback on this topic! While we cannot guarantee any changes which will or will not be made, we will be sure to pass on your feedback”. Yah right. Then the said “We would also encourage you to post your feedback on our dedicated forum thread also”. I can only assume that they want to see how many others feel as I do. So below is my post, slightly modified and updated:



I’m in a small guild. We are active in GbG. The changes you made to GbG were not really helpful to smaller guilds. Let me explain.



Our guild is currently ranked 34 and we have 9 members. In a season recently passed we were grouped with guilds that were: ranked #1 with 79 members, ranked #5 with 75 members, ranked #6 with 61 members, ranked #14 with 25 members, ranked #23 with 27 members, ranked #29 with 32 members.



In our current season we are grouped with guilds that are: ranked #5 with 78 members, ranked #18 with 71 members, ranked #17 with 37 members, ranked #30 with 64 members, ranked #37 with 39 members, ranked #39 with 64 members. Once again my guild is ranked 34 with 9 members. The two larger guilds are in an all-out battle to take and keep 1st place. In doing so, as soon as one guild’s sector opens the other guild rapidly loads and closes it before we can load it even halfway. As such we never gain a sector; we only have our home sector, and we have very few fights/negotiations.

As you can clearly see the large guilds at the top of the ranking still dominate GbG and close any sectors that open before smaller guilds can load them. It doesn’t matter how good you are at fighting, or how good your boost stats are, you will never get many rewards in GbG in diamond league. Not everyone wants to be in a large guild. But through GbG you are forcing them into it. We constantly get requests from medium sized guilds to merge with them so that they can have a large guild.

You keep GE competitive by having guilds of the approximately same size compete against each other. If not it would be an obvious advantage to the smaller guilds. You stated that the changes you made were for more players to be able to be active in GbG. That still doesn’t work for smaller guilds. Why don’t you do the same thing to GbG, which is obviously a huge advantage to larger guilds? Guilds would only compete against other guilds that are a) in the same guild member quantity range first and then b) the same ranking range. As you keep moving up in ranking you will start to face tougher guilds of approximately the same size.

Paladiac the Pure,

The guild I’m in regularly punches above it’s weight class. We are almost always in Diamond League. We have been in the top 3 in some seasons. Your condescending remarks about “if you want to stay small and stagnant, then learn to accept to live by your decision” is what I would expect from someone in a larger guild. Just because we are smaller doesn’t mean we should be stuck in silver or gold. It also means we shouldn’t have to join a larger league just to participate in GbG and actually farm sectors.

I’m not a newbie, and this isn’t my first GbG rodeo. Many members in my guild can regularly get between 130 and 150 attrition lvl. If we are given the chance.

As to your also condescending remark that maybe we should learn to make alliances, in diamond the new format doesn’t lend itself to alliances. Every large league wants to be 1st so they are tops in the 3 months fight count. We have been forming alliances for years before, but larger guilds that used to form alliances with us no longer form any alliances. The best they can do is “support us when they can”.

Your comment that ”the changes to GbG should have helped you out - in the very least, allowing those who 'choose' to participate in GbG, can now have more opportunities, i.e. more fights, than they did previously - due to the increased number of points required to take a sector” is not accurate. Most of us choose to participate in GbG, but when the sectors outside you home sector close rapidly as soon as they unlock we don’t have the choice to participate. That happens when we are matched up against 2 or more guilds ranked in the top 10 with 60 to 70 members.

 

[Hindersplit the Elder]

People have been asking for the matchmaking to be improved for over 4 years. Anyway it makes sense to match on something other than league points, but even more sense than member count would be to match guilds based on how many fights/negs they typically do, and averaged over seasons it would put guilds into similar groups (it is possible a 40 member guild fights the same as a 20 member guild because half the first guild doesn't like GBG, so you need to look deeper, though member count could still be added as a factor.)

One drawback to doing that would be that you get pigeonholed into being with the same few guilds over and over every season and it would take a dramatic change over time to move you out of your matchmaking rut. But now that they have added the tournaments that run for 3 months this fight-count and member-count factor could reset every 3 months and give people a chance to shake it up a few times a year without "feeding them to the lions" the entire 3 months as it happens now with random league matching.

You'd really think that over all this time someone would have though of a better matching system to implement but, you know they care most about how to sell event passes and monetize the game, so is it really that surprising? No.

Thank you for your reply. I think your method would also work.

 

[Ashtro]

Your comment is one of many - and maybe you should do some research and see what others have said, and how others replied.
At the end of the day - it is your choice to remain in a smaller guild. Just because you are in a smaller guild does not mean you would be treated 'equally' if you were matched against other similar sized guilds. Some guilds (big and small) are active, some only so-so active and some are just barely alive - so even if you were matched with other guilds of only 9 members (as an example), some would be the beasts taking over the map, and some would continue to get only crumbs.
The changes to GbG should have helped you out - in the very least, allowing those who 'choose' to participate in GbG, can now have more opportunities, i.e. more fights, than they did previously - due to the increased number of points required to take a sector - which on its own is a very big help.
If you want to remain small and competitive, then compete where you can - probably in a silver level or so, maybe gold. Diamond league is meant for the top dogs - if you cannot compete in Diamond because you are not big enough, or active enough - that is the choice of your guild. You can grow or you can stay leashed up by the more active guilds. You want to stay small and stagnant, then learn to accept to live by your decision, or alter your decision and find the path that will lead to what you want.
One other thing to learn to do - is make alliances with other guilds, so when you are matched up with alliance members, you can use the resources of each alliance member to improve GbG for all in your group. You do not want to do that - again, your choice.

You are so very mean lean pure a**!!!

 

[DESYPETE]

Paladiac the Pure,

The guild I’m in regularly punches above it’s weight class. We are almost always in Diamond League. We have been in the top 3 in some seasons. Your condescending remarks about “if you want to stay small and stagnant, then learn to accept to live by your decision” is what I would expect from someone in a larger guild. Just because we are smaller doesn’t mean we should be stuck in silver or gold. It also means we shouldn’t have to join a larger league just to participate in GbG and actually farm sectors.

I’m not a newbie, and this isn’t my first GbG rodeo. Many members in my guild can regularly get between 130 and 150 attrition lvl. If we are given the chance.

As to your also condescending remark that maybe we should learn to make alliances, in diamond the new format doesn’t lend itself to alliances. Every large league wants to be 1st so they are tops in the 3 months fight count. We have been forming alliances for years before, but larger guilds that used to form alliances with us no longer form any alliances. The best they can do is “support us when they can”.

Your comment that ”the changes to GbG should have helped you out - in the very least, allowing those who 'choose' to participate in GbG, can now have more opportunities, i.e. more fights, than they did previously - due to the increased number of points required to take a sector” is not accurate. Most of us choose to participate in GbG, but when the sectors outside you home sector close rapidly as soon as they unlock we don’t have the choice to participate. That happens when we are matched up against 2 or more guilds ranked in the top 10 with 60 to 70 members.

so your in a guild and you can not win unless inno changes things or other guilds help you, that really isnt the idea, to many people want to win and feel like winners when they are not when up against strong guilds, why should anyone want to help you or make your guild feel better than it really is ? if you can not manage then find another guild that can, or do like i have done and start a 1 man guild as i only need 5 to 600 fights a day not bothered about where i end up just so long as i can get the fights in dont need a guild for that, guilds are not important

 

[Nidwin]

i only need 5 to 600 fights a day not bothered about where i end up just so long as i can get the fights

I actually do bother as sinking too low isn't fun as you crush the battleground in 3-4 days and too high you get crushed and are a non factor. But sometimes you get a good battleground with a decent amount of guilds of more or less the same strength and activity, so not too bad in the end.

 

[Paladiac the Pure]

You are so very mean lean pure a**!!!

Quiet AssTroll. Nobody asked you. Go back and sit in the corner and be quiet.

 

[Ashtro]

Quiet AssTroll. Nobody asked you. Go back and sit in the corner and be quiet.

Did you come up with that line, or that was what your stepfather say to you when you smart mouth at your mother?

 

[Boof the Brave]

so your in a guild and you can not win unless inno changes things or other guilds help you, that really isnt the idea, to many people want to win and feel like winners when they are not when up against strong guilds, why should anyone want to help you or make your guild feel better than it really is ? if you can not manage then find another guild that can, or do like i have done and start a 1 man guild as i only need 5 to 600 fights a day not bothered about where i end up just so long as i can get the fights in dont need a guild for that, guilds are not important

This isn't the point at all. I can't see where Hindersplit mentioned the word "winning". It's not about winning but about getting a fair go. Too often when two or three stronger guilds get grouped together, the whole map is taken over and members of smaller guilds have to sit around twiddling their thumbs until the couple of sectors around their base reopen. If they're lucky, they may get a few fights in before they're retaken. How is that equitable? Is alright to say drop back to Platinum but the opposite is likely to happen where that guild will be too strong. They win that season and they're back in Diamond anyway. By suggesting joining a bigger guild, that just means the rich will get richer and the others can just fend for themselves with no chance of growing. Not everyone wants to be part of a large guild either, be it due to nature of their make up, politics often associated with them or whatever.