DeletedUser110481
Hi,
I am making a proposal that there be two types of neighbourhoods. One will be for PvP players and the other will be for non PvP players. this will allow people to play the game that they want to. I have no intention of forcing PvP players not to be involved in fighting, just as I believe that non PvP players should not be forced to fight.
This thread is going to be very long but it hs to be. I understand that this will be a difficult task for me to sell, and so I have worked very hard on designing as much as possible beforehand to show that it can be done. Please look through all of the changes I have made, even if it is just a skim. I am interested in any comments: anything I may have overlooked, any suggestions. Please don't just discount this suggestion until you have read what I have said. I think this can be done without substantially changing the game play, but at the same time enhancing player's enjoyment. I have tried very hard to compensate the PvP players as without the compensation the non PvP players would be advantaged over them.
I have been working with another player called Empire Conquering (EC) who is a Fighter. Between us we have both aspects of the game covered. He is looking at the impact on GvG which is something that I know little about as I don't like to fight other players.
One Wold vs Two
I belive that there are two ways to allow people to choose whether they fight or not. The would be One World, Two neighbourhoods (OWTN) or Two Worlds (TW).
OWTN would allow players to choose very early on whether they wanted to be involved in PvP. There would be nice neighbourhoods where players are unable to fight each other, so they can braid each others hair and talk about their feelings and nasty neighbourhoods where players can attack each other. In OWTN whenever neighbourhoods are created then the algorithm would not put non PvP players in with PvP players.
TW would have distinct worlds. Whenever you enter a world it would say either "This is a non fighting world" or "this is a non fighting world" or words to that effect so players can choose a differentr world if it is not the one they want.
I believe that OWTN is the better of the two options as it allows for currently existing worlds to be transitioned, will prevent possible mass migrations into worlds that suit a player better and mean that people can keep the cities that they already have, which is, after all the whole point of the game.
Overview of suggested changes
If these changes are implemented, then players will need to choose whether they are in the nice or nasty neighbourhoods. They should be given time to think about this and should get one week from the first time that they log into their city after conversion (this clock will be different for each city as players may want a mix of PvP and non PvP cities). They will be informed that once they decide they cannot change, as this will prevent people moving back and forth to gain an advantage. until they decide they will remain in the PvP environment they are currently in. The neighbourhoods will still change on the usual schedule so there may be a short period where PvP and non PvP players remain in the same neighbourhood as choosing will not automatically shoft you to a new neighbourhood (I imagine that would cause havoc wity the code.
The greatest negative impact that these changes would have on PvP players is that they will need buildings that the non PvP players do not. I fully admit that if these changes are implemented I will slash and burn all of my defensive buildings and this clearly is not fair on PvP players.
The first part of this I will look at a small change to the medal expansion regime to give some compensation, but then I will look at individual buildings defensive buildings and what changes can be made to them. Once again, I am happy for any suggestions if these don't seem right. at the moment they are a mixture of my gut feeling and maths. The maths may be good but my gut feeling could be very dodgy. These two changes (medal expansion and building changes) are aimed at balancing the PvP players/non PvP players so that PvP players will have more space.
Then I will look at some other factors I think should be changed to balance things, and also ensure that the immersiveness of the game is not reduced.
Crossed swords icon
If you are in a PvP neighbourhood the crossed swords icon will not be available. This means that you may have the crossed swords icon on the conversion week prior to being moved into your new neighbourhood. I see this as the simplest way to code the changes. Code part 1: If you choose nice neighbourhoods you will be put into one. Code part 2: When you are in a nice neighbourhood you do not have the crossed swords icon. I undersstand this may mean that PvP players will decide to run rampant because it is their last chance, but I think that it is important that the code work as a primary taks and keeping it simple will ensure this.
Medals Expansions
This is probably the simplest suggestion I have to implement. At the moment you get your first medal expansion at 100 medals, and then the next is at 300. I propose that PvP players get an expansion at 100, a second expansion at 100 and then move back to the normal regime of 300 etc. This means that they will get an expansion more than the non PvP players. This is not the only compensation, as I will also look at buildings, but it is a quick, simple and immediate reward.
If a player has already moved past the 300 expansion, they will get an extra expansion appear in their build menu as "Conversion" expansion so they are not disadvantaged by being beyond that point.
Buildings
These are changes to all of the Defensive Buildings that I can think of to compensate players who choose PvP as they will need to build them. I have not looked at attacking buildings at all as I do not believe these need to be compensated. I have them myself and I continue to add to them even though I do not attack other players. This is because I use troops in the GE and to take sectors on the world map.
The changes involve giving bonus abilities to the defensive buildings so that they provide more than just their defensive buildings. They are not as great as they would normally be as the building still has another use, but they will make the building more useful.
I'm going to do them in order of size:
Watchtower
Sacred Flame
Tiger's Den
Deal castle
St Basil's cathedral
Watchtower (WT)
My suggested change to this is that it act as a mini Wishing Well (WW). I looked at this and the Sacred Tower together to decide what the changes would be and so they are very similar. I have used maths and gut instinct again to assess what the amounts should be, but they may need some tweaking.
A WW provides items every day. It covers 9 squares. A WT covers 1 square and therefore is one ninth the size and a Sacred Flame covers 2 squares and therefore is two ninths the size. This averages between the two to one sixth. I made this weekly as it has a more readily recognised period.
Every week the WT provides one of the following:
40% Coins based on age
40% Supplies based on age
10% 1-2 Goods (random)
9% 1 FP
1% 1 Diamond
These are a complete guess. I looked at what a Wishing Well produced and approximately halved them (very approximately. There are some anomolies). The halving was because the WT already does something else, so it should get less than the Wishing Well. Then I halved them again because a WT does not need a Road, but a WW does. And then I used that amount for the Sacred Flame and about Half of it for the WT.
Sacred Flame (SF)
See the Watchtower for this. The principals are the same other than it provided more when it is harvested. These are my proposed amounts (once again I show the reasons in the WT and the principles are the same in the SF, but they are approximately double those of the WT.
40% Coins based on age (double that of WT)
40% Supplies based on age (double that of WT)
10% 1-5 goods (random)
9% 2FP
1% 2 Diamonds
Tiger's Den
Once again this continues to provide the defensive pluses that it does now. To decide what change to make to this I thought about Tigers and decided to use the superstition that their body parts promote a greater strength in the imbiber.
Once again, hey can be harvested once a week and provide one of the following at randon
+10/20/30 Defence Boost
+10/20/30 Attack Boost
+10/20/30 Supply Boost
+10/20/30 Coin Boost
The Coin and Supply boost is to provide compensation for the reduced supply and residential buildings and the Attack and Defence boosts are to be used strategically. Hopefully PvP players will choose the right time to use them.
Deal Castle
Deal Castle currently provides a defensive bonus and medals.
I propose that it gain a third ability. This should be population increase in the same manner to a Tower of Babel. I think that the amounts of the Tower of Babel may be enough as it is already providing two other abilities, but that is just a guess, so a lower or higher amount may be necessary. This will also mean that space is less impacted for PvP players as they will need less residential buildings.
This will be one of only two three ability Great Buildings (see Saint Basil's ahead). I don't see that this is a problem as we already have the Zeus and Cape Canaveral, which only have one ability.
Some farmer players will still choose to keep the building for the medals and population alone. If they choose not to do so because they consider it no longer of value within one week of choosing to be non PvP they will be compensated. they will be advised of this once they make the decision to be non PvP. the compensation will be paid upon deleting the Building. If they delete it more than one week after conversion, they will receive no compensation.
Once again, my maths may be out, but this is what I feel the compensation should be:
The goods that they used to build the building originally
One half of an Forge Points they put into the building after they reached level one (i.e. the FP to get the building out of the mud will not be compensated). this will be put into their inventory as Forge bags the same as rewards for investing in somebody else's GB.
The one half again is a guess. It should definitely not be the full FP as they have already gained the benefits of the building before it changed. I think it may be a little high... or maybe not... I'm sure the Inno people will balance it better than I.
Saint Basil's Cathedral
I chose the ability for this based on the little blurb that speaks of the roads gong to the building. This reminded me a little bit of the Treasure Hunt. Therefore, I also chose this ability as it will tie into existimg code. It just needs to go to the same piece of code that the TH currently goes to.
I propose that every time that Basil's is harvested it has its own TH.
As with the Deal, this will be its third ability and Deal and Basil's will be the only two GB with three abilities.
The first time you harvest for coins you get the 5 min Treasure Hunt for your age. At least one day later, when you harvest it for coins you get the 15 min TH for your age. then the 1 hour, then the first 4 hour, then the second 4 hour and then the 8 hour. And then it resets. Unlike the TH there will be no time limit, it just continues to cycle through.
Medals in PvP turnaments
At the moment I get PvP medals every now an again. I don't know why. I think it may be based on my GE and taking sectors. I think that if you choose the Nice neighbourhood you should not get these. It seems really out of place (even now. I'm not complaining. I like getting them. I just think I shouldn't). This is particularly true as I think the amounts are based on what neighbourhood you're in, and when you're all non PvP it seems even more out of place.
PvP Sector
Currently, whilst travelling through the countryside and taking sectors so that I can produce goods and get expansion, there is a PvP sector. This would seem very out of place to non PvP players so I propose the following change. It is a very slight disadvantage to the non PvP players (seriously, I wouldn't have noticed it).
Replace the PvP sector with a Great Building Sector. Until you conquer that sector, you cannot progress above Level 3 in any GBs of that age.
I didn't want to preclude you from building them as I know that some people work hard to get blueprints of higher age GBs as well as spending diamonds on them. that is why I set a Level 3 limit. It would ate least make the sector more meaningful to non PvP players.. atm the PvP sector is just a sector that I have to take before I can scout the sect ors beyond.
Questlines
Somebody said that you would need two different questlines for PvP players. It is important that we look at everything, so I have put it here. However, I don't think so as I feel that is already covered with the "Viciously Plunder 4 cities OR Aid 50 players and give them a hug" choices that are there.
That is everything I have so far.
If you had read all of this, thank you so much for bearing with me. I hope that if, at the beginning you thought "this is never going to work" I have swayed to believing that it is possible.
Even though I have done a lot of work, I know there is a lot more to do, however, this suggestion is not meant to be a definitive solution, just proof that it can be done.
Please post any comments. I think the most useful ones would be "you have overlooked this".
I am making a proposal that there be two types of neighbourhoods. One will be for PvP players and the other will be for non PvP players. this will allow people to play the game that they want to. I have no intention of forcing PvP players not to be involved in fighting, just as I believe that non PvP players should not be forced to fight.
This thread is going to be very long but it hs to be. I understand that this will be a difficult task for me to sell, and so I have worked very hard on designing as much as possible beforehand to show that it can be done. Please look through all of the changes I have made, even if it is just a skim. I am interested in any comments: anything I may have overlooked, any suggestions. Please don't just discount this suggestion until you have read what I have said. I think this can be done without substantially changing the game play, but at the same time enhancing player's enjoyment. I have tried very hard to compensate the PvP players as without the compensation the non PvP players would be advantaged over them.
I have been working with another player called Empire Conquering (EC) who is a Fighter. Between us we have both aspects of the game covered. He is looking at the impact on GvG which is something that I know little about as I don't like to fight other players.
One Wold vs Two
I belive that there are two ways to allow people to choose whether they fight or not. The would be One World, Two neighbourhoods (OWTN) or Two Worlds (TW).
OWTN would allow players to choose very early on whether they wanted to be involved in PvP. There would be nice neighbourhoods where players are unable to fight each other, so they can braid each others hair and talk about their feelings and nasty neighbourhoods where players can attack each other. In OWTN whenever neighbourhoods are created then the algorithm would not put non PvP players in with PvP players.
TW would have distinct worlds. Whenever you enter a world it would say either "This is a non fighting world" or "this is a non fighting world" or words to that effect so players can choose a differentr world if it is not the one they want.
I believe that OWTN is the better of the two options as it allows for currently existing worlds to be transitioned, will prevent possible mass migrations into worlds that suit a player better and mean that people can keep the cities that they already have, which is, after all the whole point of the game.
Overview of suggested changes
If these changes are implemented, then players will need to choose whether they are in the nice or nasty neighbourhoods. They should be given time to think about this and should get one week from the first time that they log into their city after conversion (this clock will be different for each city as players may want a mix of PvP and non PvP cities). They will be informed that once they decide they cannot change, as this will prevent people moving back and forth to gain an advantage. until they decide they will remain in the PvP environment they are currently in. The neighbourhoods will still change on the usual schedule so there may be a short period where PvP and non PvP players remain in the same neighbourhood as choosing will not automatically shoft you to a new neighbourhood (I imagine that would cause havoc wity the code.
The greatest negative impact that these changes would have on PvP players is that they will need buildings that the non PvP players do not. I fully admit that if these changes are implemented I will slash and burn all of my defensive buildings and this clearly is not fair on PvP players.
The first part of this I will look at a small change to the medal expansion regime to give some compensation, but then I will look at individual buildings defensive buildings and what changes can be made to them. Once again, I am happy for any suggestions if these don't seem right. at the moment they are a mixture of my gut feeling and maths. The maths may be good but my gut feeling could be very dodgy. These two changes (medal expansion and building changes) are aimed at balancing the PvP players/non PvP players so that PvP players will have more space.
Then I will look at some other factors I think should be changed to balance things, and also ensure that the immersiveness of the game is not reduced.
Crossed swords icon
If you are in a PvP neighbourhood the crossed swords icon will not be available. This means that you may have the crossed swords icon on the conversion week prior to being moved into your new neighbourhood. I see this as the simplest way to code the changes. Code part 1: If you choose nice neighbourhoods you will be put into one. Code part 2: When you are in a nice neighbourhood you do not have the crossed swords icon. I undersstand this may mean that PvP players will decide to run rampant because it is their last chance, but I think that it is important that the code work as a primary taks and keeping it simple will ensure this.
Medals Expansions
This is probably the simplest suggestion I have to implement. At the moment you get your first medal expansion at 100 medals, and then the next is at 300. I propose that PvP players get an expansion at 100, a second expansion at 100 and then move back to the normal regime of 300 etc. This means that they will get an expansion more than the non PvP players. This is not the only compensation, as I will also look at buildings, but it is a quick, simple and immediate reward.
If a player has already moved past the 300 expansion, they will get an extra expansion appear in their build menu as "Conversion" expansion so they are not disadvantaged by being beyond that point.
Buildings
These are changes to all of the Defensive Buildings that I can think of to compensate players who choose PvP as they will need to build them. I have not looked at attacking buildings at all as I do not believe these need to be compensated. I have them myself and I continue to add to them even though I do not attack other players. This is because I use troops in the GE and to take sectors on the world map.
The changes involve giving bonus abilities to the defensive buildings so that they provide more than just their defensive buildings. They are not as great as they would normally be as the building still has another use, but they will make the building more useful.
I'm going to do them in order of size:
Watchtower
Sacred Flame
Tiger's Den
Deal castle
St Basil's cathedral
Watchtower (WT)
My suggested change to this is that it act as a mini Wishing Well (WW). I looked at this and the Sacred Tower together to decide what the changes would be and so they are very similar. I have used maths and gut instinct again to assess what the amounts should be, but they may need some tweaking.
A WW provides items every day. It covers 9 squares. A WT covers 1 square and therefore is one ninth the size and a Sacred Flame covers 2 squares and therefore is two ninths the size. This averages between the two to one sixth. I made this weekly as it has a more readily recognised period.
Every week the WT provides one of the following:
40% Coins based on age
40% Supplies based on age
10% 1-2 Goods (random)
9% 1 FP
1% 1 Diamond
These are a complete guess. I looked at what a Wishing Well produced and approximately halved them (very approximately. There are some anomolies). The halving was because the WT already does something else, so it should get less than the Wishing Well. Then I halved them again because a WT does not need a Road, but a WW does. And then I used that amount for the Sacred Flame and about Half of it for the WT.
Sacred Flame (SF)
See the Watchtower for this. The principals are the same other than it provided more when it is harvested. These are my proposed amounts (once again I show the reasons in the WT and the principles are the same in the SF, but they are approximately double those of the WT.
40% Coins based on age (double that of WT)
40% Supplies based on age (double that of WT)
10% 1-5 goods (random)
9% 2FP
1% 2 Diamonds
Tiger's Den
Once again this continues to provide the defensive pluses that it does now. To decide what change to make to this I thought about Tigers and decided to use the superstition that their body parts promote a greater strength in the imbiber.
Once again, hey can be harvested once a week and provide one of the following at randon
+10/20/30 Defence Boost
+10/20/30 Attack Boost
+10/20/30 Supply Boost
+10/20/30 Coin Boost
The Coin and Supply boost is to provide compensation for the reduced supply and residential buildings and the Attack and Defence boosts are to be used strategically. Hopefully PvP players will choose the right time to use them.
Deal Castle
Deal Castle currently provides a defensive bonus and medals.
I propose that it gain a third ability. This should be population increase in the same manner to a Tower of Babel. I think that the amounts of the Tower of Babel may be enough as it is already providing two other abilities, but that is just a guess, so a lower or higher amount may be necessary. This will also mean that space is less impacted for PvP players as they will need less residential buildings.
This will be one of only two three ability Great Buildings (see Saint Basil's ahead). I don't see that this is a problem as we already have the Zeus and Cape Canaveral, which only have one ability.
Some farmer players will still choose to keep the building for the medals and population alone. If they choose not to do so because they consider it no longer of value within one week of choosing to be non PvP they will be compensated. they will be advised of this once they make the decision to be non PvP. the compensation will be paid upon deleting the Building. If they delete it more than one week after conversion, they will receive no compensation.
Once again, my maths may be out, but this is what I feel the compensation should be:
The goods that they used to build the building originally
One half of an Forge Points they put into the building after they reached level one (i.e. the FP to get the building out of the mud will not be compensated). this will be put into their inventory as Forge bags the same as rewards for investing in somebody else's GB.
The one half again is a guess. It should definitely not be the full FP as they have already gained the benefits of the building before it changed. I think it may be a little high... or maybe not... I'm sure the Inno people will balance it better than I.
Saint Basil's Cathedral
I chose the ability for this based on the little blurb that speaks of the roads gong to the building. This reminded me a little bit of the Treasure Hunt. Therefore, I also chose this ability as it will tie into existimg code. It just needs to go to the same piece of code that the TH currently goes to.
I propose that every time that Basil's is harvested it has its own TH.
As with the Deal, this will be its third ability and Deal and Basil's will be the only two GB with three abilities.
The first time you harvest for coins you get the 5 min Treasure Hunt for your age. At least one day later, when you harvest it for coins you get the 15 min TH for your age. then the 1 hour, then the first 4 hour, then the second 4 hour and then the 8 hour. And then it resets. Unlike the TH there will be no time limit, it just continues to cycle through.
Medals in PvP turnaments
At the moment I get PvP medals every now an again. I don't know why. I think it may be based on my GE and taking sectors. I think that if you choose the Nice neighbourhood you should not get these. It seems really out of place (even now. I'm not complaining. I like getting them. I just think I shouldn't). This is particularly true as I think the amounts are based on what neighbourhood you're in, and when you're all non PvP it seems even more out of place.
PvP Sector
Currently, whilst travelling through the countryside and taking sectors so that I can produce goods and get expansion, there is a PvP sector. This would seem very out of place to non PvP players so I propose the following change. It is a very slight disadvantage to the non PvP players (seriously, I wouldn't have noticed it).
Replace the PvP sector with a Great Building Sector. Until you conquer that sector, you cannot progress above Level 3 in any GBs of that age.
I didn't want to preclude you from building them as I know that some people work hard to get blueprints of higher age GBs as well as spending diamonds on them. that is why I set a Level 3 limit. It would ate least make the sector more meaningful to non PvP players.. atm the PvP sector is just a sector that I have to take before I can scout the sect ors beyond.
Questlines
Somebody said that you would need two different questlines for PvP players. It is important that we look at everything, so I have put it here. However, I don't think so as I feel that is already covered with the "Viciously Plunder 4 cities OR Aid 50 players and give them a hug" choices that are there.
That is everything I have so far.
If you had read all of this, thank you so much for bearing with me. I hope that if, at the beginning you thought "this is never going to work" I have swayed to believing that it is possible.
Even though I have done a lot of work, I know there is a lot more to do, however, this suggestion is not meant to be a definitive solution, just proof that it can be done.
Please post any comments. I think the most useful ones would be "you have overlooked this".