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Ahhh, that explains a lot. Now I understand why you can't accept that this idea is overkill and won't be implemented. You're one of those. It's your way or no way. Only your way is the right way, and only your ideas are good ideas. You can't accept when you're wrong, and you can't allow others to be right.
People like this are impossible to have discussions with. Hopefully this thread dies out soon. I'm sorry I got myself involved with this thread in the first place.
Ahhh, that explains a lot. Now I understand why you can't accept that this idea is overkill and won't be implemented. You're one of those. It's your way or no way. Only your way is the right way, and only your ideas are good ideas. You can't accept when you're wrong, and you can't allow others to be right.
People like this are impossible to have discussions with. Hopefully this thread dies out soon. I'm sorry I got myself involved with this thread in the first place.
Yes, to be honest, I really don't know why you even took you time and got involved in this thread, because obviusly you just took your time to answer the thread without even reading the other posts. First of all, this suggestion is not "overkill" at all, and second noone ever said that it won't be implemented. Obviusly you're too obsessed with answering each active thread in this forum, so I guess I'll have to feed you with the answer from The Countess:
It's an interesting idea though, but not something that is likely to be considered for the immediate future (would take loads of time to implement something like that).
So ohcrapitsalex, if you are too lazy to actually read the posts, please don't bother to spend your time answering.
I proposed this suggestion, and clearly wrote that the scaling could be kept as a settings option aswell. So why are you trying to say that it's my way or no way? Ah right, you didn't read the rest...
To be honest, if feels more like you are one of those. I suggested the scrolling as an alternative to scaling. But no, you are starting to get desperate because there can't be another option for those who doesn't like scaling. You like scaling and everyone must like it aswell. It's your way or no way. Only your way is correct, if scrolling would be added as an alternative your way would NOT be the only way. OMG that would be CHAOS for you, wouldn't it? YOU can't accept that other ideas are good as well (as an alternative). If you don't agree with an idea, it automaticly becomes overkill and you hope that it dies.
YOU can't allow others to get an option that THEY would prefer, when you would STILL be able to use you precius scaling... Pathetic...
Don't bother posting anything more in this thread unless you have something that actually adds to the subject that isn't off-topic. And stop blaming me for not being reasonable. I do my best to spend MY time to design suggestions that would help this game getting even better and to raise its over all quality ever further. Go bully someone else.
hey falcon and ohcrapitsalex, cool off guys. It feels like all you guys care about is slurring at each other right now. Let the thread rest; it feels like it's gotten a bit cranky
Can you stop making fun of my suggestions? I'm not here to entertain you, but to do my best to make this game even better. It's really not appreciated that I spend loads of time to design, write and make graphics for new suggestions to improve the game, just so some bully like you can stop by and troll. Apart from that, didn't you say that you was done in this thread? Currently you don't bring anything to this thread other than troll just to drown it.
When we see the loading screen, the .swf file is being (down)loaded from the server into your browsers cache. That is where the major serverload occurs. The .swf file that has been (down)loaded into your browsers cache holds all graphics, sounds and external files that the game needs. That is why there's a loading screen, simple classes without any assets wouldn't require any loading as they would have loaded within 1-2 seconds.
It's pretty fun that you're trying to tell me that each separate graphic and sound are loaded into the game when needed and not upon start. The time we wait for a city to load is the time it takes for the computer to assign the correct textures to each object (textures that are already downloaded), imagine the amount of time it would take to download each individual image from the server. Imagine when a players decides to go mot/pol all players all his guildies. Imagine when 30-50 players decides to mot/pol or attack + plunder at once. The server would be overloaded if it had to return textures every 1-3 seconds. Instead, each player that starts the game, loads all required assets (which is placed inside the .swf) upon start. 1 compressed package is downloaded, then extracted in the client.
Buildings and sounds aren't loaded when the game loads, but when they're needed. If you have chrome, open the network tab of the development tools and you can see the sounds and building images being loaded from the cdn. Some sounds are loaded beforehand, indeed, but some also through the cdn.
There are assets loaded with the .swf, like the background images for the city and a few 100 icons that are in the game.
Also, getting hold of the .swf files isn't hard, viewing the actual code inside it is though (let alone tamper with it), as most of that is hidden. I've managed to extract assets from them, but that's it.
Anyway, that's not really part of this discussion now is it
I wasn't referring to Falcon93's posts as being entertaining , i was referring to the hole tit for tat drama being entertaining . It makes for a good read .
Can you stop making fun of my suggestions? I'm not here to entertain you, but to do my best to make this game even better. It's really not appreciated that I spend loads of time to design, write and make graphics for new suggestions to improve the game, just so some bully like you can stop by and troll. Apart from that, didn't you say that you was done in this thread? Currently you don't bring anything to this thread other than troll just to drown it.
Apologies if you feel offended , none intended . If anything falcon93 , you have given more advice , tips , heads-up , and most importantly friendly advice to all members than anyone i can think of .
Please keep those ideas & inspirations coming .
Regards , Pba .
Buildings and sounds aren't loaded when the game loads, but when they're needed. If you have chrome, open the network tab of the development tools and you can see the sounds and building images being loaded from the cdn. Some sounds are loaded beforehand, indeed, but some also through the cdn.
There are assets loaded with the .swf, like the background images for the city and a few 100 icons that are in the game.
Also, getting hold of the .swf files isn't hard, viewing the actual code inside it is though (let alone tamper with it), as most of that is hidden. I've managed to extract assets from them, but that's it.
Anyway, that's not really part of this discussion now is it
There's a simple rule when programming; Assets should just be loaded once, and then re-used. So for instance, the texture for the High-rise should be loaded once in the beginning, and then every time the texture is requested, it should be re-used. So instead of loading the texture multiple times, and then again when loading another players city, it should be loaded once when loading the game and then just used for all objects that needs that texture, in this example the High-rises
Let me first apologize for my last post, it was poor choice of wording, and wasn't meant to sound the way it did. By "falcon's idea", I meant the whole thread in general, being's it was falcon's thread. I just meant that at least through the bickering in here, we at least provided some entertainment. I wasn't implying that this thread/idea was a bad one and was only good for "entertainment".
You keep assuming that i'm bashing and bullying your idea, stating that it's a bad one. I never once said it was a bad idea. No, in fact, I said it was a good idea (again, see post #50), but just that it was overkill as a solution to the confusing scaling situation. I'm sorry that you took offense to me saying that, but I also wasn't the only one to say so. If you aren't open to hearing feedback, whether it be positive or negative feedback, don't post in a public forum. I am not "bullying" you.
You keep saying that I haven't added anything to this thread, but you're wrong, I have. I've added my opinion on your idea, and i've explained why. Just because I don't agree that we need your idea implemented doesn't mean that i've "added nothing to this thread".
The only reason we moved away from the original topic was because I attempted to correct misinformation that I saw you providing. To be honest, I also believe that should be considered "adding to the thread", especially now that Slygoxx has confirmed what I corrected.
Lastly, your most recent comment - #74 - is also misleading. It's true that content/assets should only be called to download and cache once. In fact, content will always load the cached file if it's already been called once, unless specifically instructed not to, in which it's told to reload and refresh. However, unless i've misunderstood what you've said multiple times, you keep saying that all content should be preloaded upon the initial load of the game. As I've pointed out many times, it would be unrealistic to load everything when initially loading the game. Not only would loading times significantly increase, but we would also experience the unbearable lag immediately upon starting up the game that just about all of us encounter after P/Ming several guildies or attacking several neighbors. And besides, why would you want to preload all images, audio, and other content/assets when you won't necessarily call upon all of it during your session?
Once again, please don't interpret my comments as "bullying", "trolling", or even rude or condescending. I'm only here to offer my feedback, and while you may not personally welcome it, I am still entitled to do so.
You keep assuming that i'm bashing and bullying your idea, stating that it's a bad one. I never once said it was a bad idea. No, in fact, I said it was a good idea (again, see post #50), but just that it was overkill as a solution to the confusing scaling situation. I'm sorry that you took offense to me saying that, but I also wasn't the only one to say so. If you aren't open to hearing feedback, whether it be positive or negative feedback, don't post in a public forum. I am not "bullying" you.
Could you please tell me why you think it's overkill to implement a scrollable battlefield? The city view is scrollable and noone complains about it, in fact, it works very well. Imagine the city view being scaled, 1 square wouldn't be 1 square and each building would be smaller.
FoE has already got many rewards for being a very good browser game. I'm pretty sure that they didn't get those rewards because they kept everything as simple as possible, but instead because they've worked hard to really keep this game on a very high quality. So, I don't understand why you think that scrolling would be overkill? It would just raise the quality of the battles even more. Imagine the doors opened with a larger battlefield; Larger battles, more units per battle, more strategic terrain, real multiple trenches, not just 1 or 2, real strategies like flanking etc, or terrain that changes state during the battle depending on artillery fire or destroyed units. With a particle engine they could even implement dynamic smoke and fire.
What is overkill? It's a great implementation that would just raise the games quality even more, and that's what we are aiming for, isn't it?
The only reason we moved away from the original topic was because I attempted to correct misinformation that I saw you providing. To be honest, I also believe that should be considered "adding to the thread", especially now that Slygoxx has confirmed what I corrected.
Read Slygoxx's response again Everything is indeed not loaded when the game loads, but there are also assets that actually are loaded when the game loads. Also, I did clearly state that I didn't know how FoE's code was designed, simply because I'm not coding the game. What I tried to tell was how it "should" be done, and with "should", I don't mean that "my way is the only way", but how the whole structure of the code are written in the "original" way. For instance, you can eat with 2 forks, but the "orignal" way, the way you "should" eat, is with 1 fork and 1 knife. You get my point?
Lastly, your most recent comment - #74 - is also misleading. It's true that content/assets should only be called to download and cache once. In fact, content will always load the cached file if it's already been called once, unless specifically instructed not to, in which it's told to reload and refresh. However, unless i've misunderstood what you've said multiple times, you keep saying that all content should be preloaded upon the initial load of the game. As I've pointed out many times, it would be unrealistic to load everything when initially loading the game. Not only would loading times significantly increase, but we would also experience the unbearable lag immediately upon starting up the game that just about all of us encounter after P/Ming several guildies or attacking several neighbors. And besides, why would you want to preload all images, audio, and other content/assets when you won't necessarily call upon all of it during your session?
In a larger game I agree with you that not everything should be loaded in the beginning, simply because it would take very long time. However, FoE isn't that big, and to be honest, I would actually prefer to wait 2 or 3 times longer for the games main load, compared to a quick main load, and then a quick load for the first player, yet another quick load for the next player, then another quick load for a battle, then another load for the campaign map, and then one quick load again for the 3rd player.
Yes, assets should just load 1 time per asset. The computer won't know this by itself, it does what you tell it to do. Let's make a very simple example. We are going to load a very small city, it consists only of 3 huts, 2 hunters and 1 tavern.
My guess is that the game currently does this:
--- City Class ---
Building hut = new Building();
hut.Texture = [download image]
Building hut = new Building();
hut.Texture = [download image]
Building hut = new Building();
hut.Texture = [download image]
Building hunter = new Building();
hunter.Texture = [download image]
Building hunter = new Building();
hunter.Texture = [download image]
Building tavern = new Building();
tavern.Texture = [download image]
This is what should be done:
--- Content Class --- // Manages all content.
Texture hut = [download image] // This happens only once.
Texture hunter = [download image] // This happens only once.
Texture tavern = [download image] // This happens only once.
--- City Class ---
Building hut = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
hut.Texture = Content.hut;
Building hut = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
hut.Texture = Content.hut;
Building hut = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
hut.Texture = Content.hut;
Building hunter = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
hunter.Texture = Content.hunter;
Building hunter = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
hunter.Texture = Content.hunter;
Building tavern = [get from object pool] // Don't create a new object if there already are aviable ones in the pool.
tavern.Texture = Content.tavern;
The lag that occurs after some playing time isn't due to much content loaded. In fact, the content loaded doesn't slow anything down as long as there's enough memory. What slows it down is the amount of assets that are currently used on the screen (drawn), or, if there's memory leaks or lists/queues that are en-queued but never de-queued
It doesn't bother me if they decide to load everything at once or parts when necessary, but what's really important is that they just load each asset once, and then re-use it, as in the 2nd spoiler
*casual comes back into this topic* One question that popped into my mind today: When the iPad app comes out, how are battles going to work out? Would it not have to be scrollable? (I doubt they are going to make a really small screen and scale it to their perspective ) So wouldn't this mean that it is possible to not have scaled the map? (I wouldn't be certain if it's going to use click 'n drag)
Btw, I do agree with someone else's point in where not being able to see the whole map would be a bother in planning out my strategy. (I did a quick fight in a very small resolution and it was definitely not something I would hope to see on a map 3 or 5 times the size as it is now)
ohcrapitsalex
As A long term player and stretching back over 14 years when we think of other INNO games you are coming across very badly. You keep talking about being on the INNO team "our server" "we" etc but then say this is not your intention and you are posting just a player. You need to understand that your forum postings must be consistent and be either as a Altruist or as a player. This is vital to ensure you communicate correctly to the rest of the forum.
Falcon has come forward with some ideas which seem to identify a good problem and offers a possible solution but he does not deserve to be ridiculed. They are good suggestions worthy of debate.
You have a habit of being very nasty and I would even go as far as saying you are bullying (considering your role as Altruist), consider your post as a Altruist which should be to support the game in advising players (I totally understand your right to post as a player but you do not do this)
Ahhh, that explains a lot. Now I understand why you can't accept that this idea is overkill and won't be implemented. You're one of those. It's your way or no way. Only your way is the right way, and only your ideas are good ideas. You can't accept when you're wrong, and you can't allow others to be right.
People like this are impossible to have discussions with. Hopefully this thread dies out soon. I'm sorry I got myself involved with this thread in the first place.
Please, Please either keep out of posts (as you suggest) or be much more constructive but most importantly, as a player that claims to be a "players player" rather than an official INNO person (which as a Altruist you are not anyway) stop posting what you think the company line is without confirmation from INNO (I sincerely apologise if all those posts were with the said approval of INNO)
byeordie
I totally agree with you concern about how do we use this on a mobile device but I think you concern may be overtaken as both IOS and ANDROID is in the respective playstore as beta versions for FOE.
So will I agree with you about the need to Scale maps I need to investigate for a while before commenting.
