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Already Suggested: Neighborhood Only Trade Option

DeletedUser13082

Proposal:
A tick box which would allow neighborhood only trading the same as we already have guild only trading.

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?:
Yes. After a long while searching I found a few threads which pointed at similar ideas but went miles out of their way to achieve something so simple. For example, changing trade icons from hammer and shield to hammer and two shields to show that the trade is marked as guild only. This wouldn't help anything toward keeping a fair trade base within a guild as there are multiple other ways in which it can already be achieved in that manner. At present in Titans guilds we enforce that any unfair trades which are intended to profit from neighbors must not be posted at trade rates of 0.5, 1 or 2, as these rates are used for fair trading among guild members. Doing this means that guild members don't have to scan through page after page of unfair trades as they can simply look at the trade rates and skip through until they see the fair trades.

Reason:
Although we currently have a good trade system set up within our guilds (as stated above) it would still make things a lot easier if there existed a neighborhood only option. This would mean that when going to the trade market and looking for guild trades you can simply tick the guild only box and then all unfair trades which are intended for the player to make a profit will be hidden from fellow guild members. There would then be no mistakes of a player accepting the wrong trade and losing out on goods because of it. The issue of unfair trades not being posted at rates of 0.5, 1 or 2 would also be removed as they could be set at these rates and not be mixed in with guild trades.

Details:
Pretty much stated everything already. It would be a simple tick box which would allow players to set trades so that only their neighbors could see them.

Visual Aids:
Trade.jpg
As you can see from the image we have a lot of unfair trades which are intended to make profit from neighbors. Although it is easy enough to skip past them, as we can tell they are unfair from the trade rate, it would be a lot easier and require a lot less time to enforce if those unfair trades didn't show at all once the guild only trade box was ticked.

Balance:
No real impact on any other aspects of the game just a simple reworking of the trade system.

Abuse Prevention:
Not Applicable
 
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DeletedUser13167

A very simple solution to a problem that affects all guilds.....
Could it be expanded to include 'friends' who would also be able to trade forge point free???
 
Surge

Surge

Brigadier-General
What I see here is a problem with unfair trades, thus asking to filter the guild only trades to neighborhood trades. There should be an even easier way... how about filter trade ratios? That would be nice.
 

DeletedUser13082

Surge said:
What I see here is a problem with unfair trades, thus asking to filter the guild only trades to neighborhood trades. There should be an even easier way... how about filter trade ratios? That would be nice.
Click to expand...

Although filtering ratios would also work I don't believe it would be easier. To filter ratios would require a sort of drop down list with ratios on and there would be a lot of ratios on the list which you would then have to scroll through to find what you are looking for as apposed to simple clicking a tick box to filter neighborhood (unfair) trades
 
Surge

Surge

Brigadier-General
To be honest, spending an extra 5-10 seconds isn't the end of the world. And even then, neighborhood offers also have unfair offers, like in my worlds, there are usually 3-4 people who spam the market with horrendous offers. I just want a little option to input the range of ratios I want. Makes the whole thing easier.
 

DeletedUser13082

Surge said:
To be honest, spending an extra 5-10 seconds isn't the end of the world. And even then, neighborhood offers also have unfair offers, like in my worlds, there are usually 3-4 people who spam the market with horrendous offers. I just want a little option to input the range of ratios I want. Makes the whole thing easier.
Click to expand...

The idea of this isn't so that you can look through only neighborhood offers rather than guild offers but so that guild members can set their unfair trades to neighborhood only and when a guild member clicks the option to show only guild trades the unfair trades won't be there :)
 

DeletedUser3157

This or very similar ideas have been suggested couple of times(once even by me), always getting good support from the community. Trading could use more filtering/whatever options, it's a fact, and players sense a need for it. I hope it is now only matter of time until devs get to it and make trading more flexible.
 

DeletedUser

hint said:
This or very similar ideas have been suggested couple of times(once even by me), always getting good support from the community. Trading could use more filtering/whatever options, it's a fact, and players sense a need for it. I hope it is now only matter of time until devs get to it and make trading more flexible.
Click to expand...

I also have supported this idea in all its various guises. What I'm wondering is exactly what it takes to get an idea promoted to the Great Ideas section for closer consideration. It should be obvious to staff by now that some change is long overdue here. Yet some ideas get moved up with little or no discussion in the ideas section. Is it because they just happen to like that particular idea or is it because they know something is in the pipeline in relation to the idea. Then they can say to us, You see we do listen to what you have to say and take the ideas of the community seriously. As Hint says hopefully its only a matter of time. We can then relax our guild trade rules to allow more flexible trade.

edit: almost forgot to +1 (if it helps). ;)
 
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DeletedUser

death ouron said:
Proposal:
A tick box which would allow neighborhood only trading the same as we already have guild only trading.
Click to expand...

Just to highlight to you, death ouron, a point of fact that we actually DON'T presently have 'guild only' trading ... what we DO have is the 'Shield' tickbox at the top of the Trading tab which "only show(s) guild offers", in a similar way to what we ALSO have is a 'Neighbourhood' tickbox right next to it, which "only show(s) neighborhood offers". Of course, the issue is (which is what we actually don't have at present) is that we cannot really tell the difference between a 'Guild Only' trade and an Open Market / Neighbourhood trade (placed BY a guild member) because of the inadequate use of symbols presently used in the Trading tab itself.

death ouron said:
[/B] For example, changing trade icons from hammer and shield to hammer and two shields to show that the trade is marked as guild only.
Click to expand...

If you were to look to the end of that thread where you saw this proposal that you are referring to, you will see (that after much discussion), forum members agreed upon the idea of utilising the small black shield in the 'Trading' tab (similar to the one that is presently used - following the 0.25 update - in the 'Your Current Offers' tab) instead of my first idea (which was JUST an idea) of using a hammer & 2 shields. Having this black shield would improve the CHOICE of founders and guild members alike to see what trades on the market were made specifically by members of one's OWN guild and which others were 'Neighbourhood / Open Market'.

What I am interested to know is where you say:
death ouron said:
[/B] This wouldn't help anything toward keeping a fair trade base within a guild as there are multiple other ways in which it can already be achieved in that manner.
Click to expand...

What, therefore, are the "multiple other ways it can already be achieved in that manner"? The ONE way that you cite is the use of enforcement within your own guild ... This, I might add, was already discussed in the thread that I highlighted above and some people truly objected to the use of 'enforcing ... guild rules' to guild members ... is this the only way? Or are you thinking there truly are other ways of achieving fair trading within a guild?

I MIGHT be inclined to give you a +1 for your idea but I suppose what I need is additional information :)
 
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DeletedUser13082

Greyshadow said:
Just to highlight to you, death ouron, a point of fact that we actually DON'T presently have 'guild only' trading ... what we DO have is the 'Shield' tickbox at the top of the Trading tab which "only show(s) guild offers", in a similar way to what we ALSO have is a 'Neighbourhood' tickbox right next to it, which "only show(s) neighborhood offers". Of course, the issue is (which is what we actually don't have at present) is that we cannot really tell the difference between a 'Guild Only' trade and an Open Market / Neighbourhood trade (placed BY a guild member) because of the inadequate use of symbols presently used in the Trading tab itself.



If you were to look to the end of that thread where you saw this proposal that you are referring to, you will see (that after much discussion), forum members agreed upon the idea of utilising the small black shield in the 'Trading' tab (similar to the one that is presently used - following the 0.25 update - in the 'Your Current Offers' tab) instead of my first idea (which was JUST an idea) of using a hammer & 2 shields. Having this black shield would improve the CHOICE of founders and guild members alike to see what trades on the market were made specifically by members of one's OWN guild and which others were 'Neighbourhood / Open Market'.

What I am interested to know is where you say:


What, therefore, are the "multiple other ways it can already be achieved in that manner"? The ONE way that you cite is the use of enforcement within your own guild ... This, I might add, was already discussed in the thread that I highlighted above and some people truly objected to the use of 'enforcing ... guild rules' to guild members ... is this the only way? Or are you thinking there truly are other ways of achieving fair trading within a guild?

I MIGHT be inclined to give you a +1 for your idea but I suppose what I need is additional information :)
Click to expand...

Following your first quote you summed up what I was struggling to put into words and did a good job of it so for that I thank you.

Following your second quote. Please note I meant no offence in referring to the thread but simply used it as an example in which similar ideas had been offered previously simply to prove that I did look around before I created a thread :)

Now following your third quote you mentioned other ways of knowing whether a member has posted a trade to the open market or to only the guild. The first way I know of is as I explained to begin with which is to have trade rules within the guild which state that any unfair trade which is intended to create profit from neighbors must not be posted at rates of 0.5, 1 or 2. As you rightly said, yes this does mean that rules must be enforced in the guild. However you seem to go against yourself a little by saying that you disagree with rules being enforced at all. I perfectly understand that this is just a game and should be played as a game for enjoyment, never in to serious a manner. Competitive, yes if you're a competitive player but never serious to the extent that it saps the fun from the game.

Now as I mentioned you go against yourself in saying that you wouldn't want guild rules to be enforced because even with the idea you gave (which for the record I do support I just feel that there are easier ways to solve the problem we all seem to have) you would have to enforce rules to keep trades among guild members fair. The idea of having a specific symbol next to a trade to state whether it is a guild only trade or an open market trade would eliminate the need to enforce the rules that fair trades must be at fair trade rates and unfair trades must not be at fair trade rates, granted. However now you have the problem of what if a guild member posts an unfair trade as a guild only trade. You can see it is a guild only trade and may simply assume it is a fair trade much like I would in those circumstances. In East-Nagach Titans Part Deux guild I clear the guild market of all fair trades multiple times on a daily basis (usually once every couple of hours when I log in to collect supplies etc). With the trade rates rule we have implemented I know which trades to accept and which to leave alone without even seeing what I am trading and what I am trading it for, I simply see a fair trade rate and click accept, with the exception now and again if we have an influx of new members who aren't quite as familiar with the guild trade system. Now if a member posted an unfair trade as a guild only trade I would assume this would be against the rules of 99% of guilds in FoE as I know majority of guilds try to sell themselves with the promise of fair trades and no ripping off other guild members. now correct me if I'm wrong but would you not have to enforce a rule upon the guild in which you state that any unfair trade must not be posted as a guild only trade? In which case you are still having to enforce guild rules just to a lower extent and with less chance of any miss-understanding.

As for other ways of being able to tell if a trade is meant for a guild member or whether it is intended to create a profit from members of the neighborhood. As you quite rightly mentioned, any idea I can give in this would demand the enforcement of guild rules. However in my own opinion, although guild rules shouldn't be enforced to the level in which it makes the members of the guild feel that the game is more of a job, I do still feel that without some form of rules and structure among a group of people the only long term goal you are heading toward is chaos. When arguments break out between 2 guild members over a controversial subject what would you do to douse the flames and calm the situation? Say a member has posted pages upon pages of unfair trades in the guild market and you have no structural trade system or rules within the guild. Each member must then scour through hundreds of worthless trades just to be able to find trades which they want to accept in order to help out their fellow guild members. You can obviously see the problem there as it would frustrate majority of guild members if this happened, with that being said you can't tell the member who has posted the trades to remove them as he hasn't broken any rules and hasn't done anything wrong. Your effectively stuck between a rock and a hard place and the problem will simply escalate when other guild members decide to pick sides and put there opinion on the table. In the long run you are looking simply at your guild have a slight problem between 2 members and eventually dissolving itself due to the butterfly effect, the tiny flap of a wing creating a hurricane as it builds speed on it's journey. All in all I have to disagree with any person who says that rules and structure of some form, no matter how small, should not be enforced. Having sensible and agreeable structure simply makes things run smoother and therefore more enjoyable for all who are involved.

On the note of needed more information there isn't a great lot extra I can say other than to put the idea into a simple term (which I probably should have to begin with as it would be much more understandable haha). The idea is effectively to be able to separate trades, which guild members of posted for only guild members, from trades which they have posted for the open market. The only issue I had with your own idea is that although the 2 types of trade would be separated by having a different symbol next to them, they would still be shown on the same page of trades and at the end of the day, accidents can happen, people can easily click a trade by mistake that they didn't intend to accept. However with the Idea I have suggested the trades would be 100% separated as soon as the option for guild only trades was ticked. Your idea itself could work on the same basis by the market automatically separating the 2 types of trade. Any trades with a clack shield would begin on the first or the last pages in the market place and the others would be on the opposite. Much in the way that auto trades are separated from player trades in the open market by being place on the last pages of the market window rather than being spread all around and mixed in with player trades :)

EDIT: Damn that was long winded, sorry for the excessive amount of text. My eyes sting a little now haha
 

DeletedUser

+1 for original post, although this is very similar to another forum topic idea.
...
Note: filtering on trade ratios is going to be complex and not necessarily helpful, so I don't support that alternative. Examples:
Offer of 12 iron, asking for 10 wood = 1.2 = good for whoever takes this trade
Offer of 12 iron, asking for 10 ebony = 1.2 = horrible.
Offer of 10 iron for 10 cloth = 1.0 = fair
Offer of 10 silk for 10 gold = 1.0 = really generous (trading across 2 ages)
Offer of 10 wine for 10 Rope = 1.0 = horrible
Offer of 1 iron for 1 cloth = 1.0 = fair but still a horrible trade for a neighbour who has to spend 1 forge point
 

DeletedUser

More options are always better in my opinion. Just so long as something like this doesn't take away the ability to offer a trade to anyone that can see it.

For example, not making it guild only or neighborhood only, but being able to offer a trade to:
  • Guild only
  • Neighborhood only
  • Everyone in guild or neighborhood

Also I would question where people on your friends list would be considered. I do not believe they can see guild only trades at the moment-- would they be able to see neighborhood only trades?
 

DeletedUser13082

At the minute people on friends list can see neighborhood trades which would stay as is but personally I'd like to see guild only change to guild and friends only where friends no longer have to pay forge points
 

DeletedUser

Still a problem a year and a half later. Most guilds have fair trade rules and we all have this problem. With all the major changes that go in is this really too much to ask?
 
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