Let Trade Flow !

[DeletedUser99588]

Yet people are free to relay theyre own oppinions regarding some aspects of the game... if not, none would ask for our take in some issues and the game wouldnt get improved. Remember the change on gvg timer??? None should have spoken out and now we would all wait until 10h00 instead of 20h00 for the timer of gvg reset.

The game became way easy, especially for those who are all day long playing and finishing the treasure hunt and those who finish all events and are lucky enough to get special usefull buildings and even easier for those who spend real money, so lets not speak about game getting easier...

But if you want to make game more interesting, lets charge fps for guild trades too

Everyones opinion counts, I was just giving mine and it just happens to be the opposite of yours. If a case could be made where charging an fp for guilds trades would benefit or balance the game then yes it would be an option. At the current time I do not see that being the case but who knows what will happen in the future.

Not sure why you have thought anyone was suggesting you weren't free to give your opinion or were you just trying to change topic of discussion? Anyway I'm sure there will be a number of players that agree/disagree with the idea and we all are free to voice our opinion.

There are many features that have made the game easier over the last year like the Aid function which was introduced to help reduce performance and server loading issues as much as making it easier for players. It didn't change the balance of the game though as you still motivate and polish although it can be completed far quicker now but even then there are drawbacks with the random element of what it will polivate.

Removing the fp for out of guild trades does change the balance of the game and reduces the benefit of being in a guild. Is it a game breaker? No but it is another reduction in the element of strategy and as the game has relatively few I would like to keep them.

Just my opinion I know but there you go you have it whether you wanted it or not

 

[DeletedUser2989]

I think one of the really big reasons for the lack of "outsider" trades being taken would be primarily down to 2 things, GB's and GvG. GB's provide that additional option for where to spend your FP's and I think many (not all) would value leveling their GB's over accepting "outsider" trades. Also since "un-capping" the GB's they've turned into a massive FP sink. GvG as we all know is a massive goods sink, I remember when it was released there were a few complaints about markets drying up and that's still valid now. Compared to the pre-GvG times there just isn't the same amount of good available to fill the needs on the market.

Of course other elements to consider are the increasing number of ways that players can gain FP's and goods compared to pre-GvG and pre-GB times. Several GB's provide either goods or FP's and the Treasure Hunt provides a little extra nudge as well, providing a little relief from the goods and FP sinks (GvG and GB's). Perhaps all these changes were intended so that there wouldn't be lots of FP's and goods for a quick moving market?

Given that I'm in a "large" (not as big as others but above average) and active guild it's hard for me to personally evaluate if the market has been unbalanced over time by other features. So I'm not supporting the change but at the same time I'm not opposing the change as both "sides" to the argument seem to have very valid points.

 

[DeletedUser5514]

Everyones opinion counts, I was just giving mine and it just happens to be the opposite of yours. If a case could be made where charging an fp for guilds trades would benefit or balance the game then yes it would be an option. At the current time I do not see that being the case but who knows what will happen in the future.

Not sure why you have thought anyone was suggesting you weren't free to give your opinion or were you just trying to change topic of discussion? Anyway I'm sure there will be a number of players that agree/disagree with the idea and we all are free to voice our opinion.

There are many features that have made the game easier over the last year like the Aid function which was introduced to help reduce performance and server loading issues as much as making it easier for players. It didn't change the balance of the game though as you still motivate and polish although it can be completed far quicker now but even then there are drawbacks with the random element of what it will polivate.

Removing the fp for out of guild trades does change the balance of the game and reduces the benefit of being in a guild. Is it a game breaker? No but it is another reduction in the element of strategy and as the game has relatively few I would like to keep them.

Just my opinion I know but there you go you have it whether you wanted it or not

I guess i might have miss-read your "making the game easier" comment and assumed it was a critic towards those who favour the change in goods trading outside guilds... nevertheless, although i disagree about it being a "reduction in the element of strategy", since for me strategy is more related to practical stuff as choosing guild, gvg ages to get involved in, evolving or delaying tech tree, buying or fighting map sectors, creating alliances or enemies in the game, trading fps between gbs, selling goods for fps donated into gbs, selecting gbs to donate fps or polivating buildings in order to get bps or simply to help out other players, and so on and so on, wich are much more tactical factors and even game changing than the fps you could save while trading with neighbours or friends.

Still, its a fact that many trades,, even with favourable rates, end up not being taken and that doesnt make sense... why does that happen? Because they cost fps... thats a big deterrent, at least for me. I dont take most trades because of theyre fps cost, even having a lot of fps stocked up, as it simply not worth it.

Different oppinions worth exactly the same... i respect your oppinion even being opposed to mine

 

[DeletedUser653]

Thank you roger :-)

Alas the point about guilds being a good idea I cannot agree with. I have been in 2 guilds (still in the 2nd) And I have not managed to trade anything in either of those guilds. All the response I have gotten was a sour note when I posted a 'better than fair trade' offer on the guild market, "we do fair trade only in this guild." Not a treath, but I left anyway.

If you know of a guild where the seniors trade actively, I would love to hear about it.

love Villow

Sorry to hear your problems but your in a bad guild and need to find a better one. In my guild I normally manage to accept all trades as long as they are fair or better and normally I want to trade down or stay level. I do then have to post big trades to even out stocks but 1FP is not an issue when the trades 100 or 200 units.

But I have never heard of any guild which objects to you offering 10 clothe for 10 stone! The fair rules are normally 1:1 same age, 2:1 next age up and anything you like if trading down as the max you can offer is 1:2 so no point in restricting trade and if you want to offer 2:1 for next age down i will gladly accept every trade you post.

But alas I think the FP payment for trades outside the guild is a good thing as its one of the benefits of being in a guild and means players look to trade internally before looking outside, a big benefit for the guild.

so sorry but -1 from me

 

[DeletedUser5514]

Thank you roger :-)

Alas the point about guilds being a good idea I cannot agree with. I have been in 2 guilds (still in the 2nd) And I have not managed to trade anything in either of those guilds. All the response I have gotten was a sour note when I posted a 'better than fair trade' offer on the guild market, "we do fair trade only in this guild." Not a treath, but I left anyway.

If you know of a guild where the seniors trade actively, I would love to hear about it.

love Villow

Hi, it seems most people forget players start small, wich means any fp counts and entering a good guild, where trades flow, wont be easy... as memory is lacking on them, it seems a good idea is not being appreciated as it should be. Unfortunally most are saying no to the end of spending FPs on outside guild trades because theyre not affected by it. I guess its only human.

It seems you and i are a bit isolated on our oppinion to end fps while trading goods.

 

[DeletedUser96901]

Hi, it seems most people forget players start small ... entering a good guild, where trades flow, wont be easy...

why is joining a good guild not easy ?

right because people are stupid:
a neighbor invites them and then they join a 5 man guild where 3 of them are neighbors

but actually it is very simple:
in almost any Top 50 of the guild rankings in any world there a few guilds with auto-join
simply search it and click one button (join) --> you are in a guild where trades flow
and in the case there is no guild where you can auto-join search a guild with many players which are a few eras higher
and then write the founder and say you are active and aid everyone every day --> bingo you are in
(or are you the stupid guy who only writes "can I join your guild" to a random player of that guild who can't even invite players and then wondering why you don't get an invitation?)

oh wait: a small player can't do that
then it is sure not because he is small. it is because he is a bad player

 

[DeletedUser108240]

I can only agree that removing the FP-tax on trading would make the game easier. It would.

Unfortunately the game DEMAND that we trade. At least unless we are super-players who can conquer a province guarded by later-age units.

As mentioned above it is hard to get a trade if your are not in an active AND established Guild. I have considered starting a guild myself just to get the ACTIVE noobs into it. It would help a lot. With the occasional goods from the loop quest it would even make it possible to counquer those provinces.

As for resource management I have that dillema ALSO even without the trade problems. Building GBs is key and like everyone else I want them and the benefits they offer. That is why 2 weeks ago I stopped researching and started building other peoples GBs full-time so I could get blueprints to build my own. I also have buildings making non-boosted goods because that is faster and cheaper than trading for them.

So please Thanatos, stop it with the "Those noobs are just lazy"-mantra. There IS a problem here.

love Villow

 

[DeletedUser96901]

I also have buildings making non-boosted goods because that is faster and cheaper than trading for them.

no it is not

non-boosted goods = 1/5. I need to make two production to get 2 goods (= 8 hours)

now I produce goods and trade down 2:1
example: I give 4 gold for 2 limbstone. 5 boosted gold needs 4 hours and would cost the same as 2 unboosted limbstone. but after getting my 2 limbstone I would still have one 1 gold left. same costs, half time --> more goods. and those trades would sure accepted from neighbors very fast (ok not 4:2 but 40 gold for 20 limbstone)
(or if goods from your last era are needed: giving 2 for 1 sure also get sold. or you are in a terrible guild)

so everyone saying non-boosted goods are produced faster and cheaper are terrible players

So please Thanatos, stop it with the "Those noobs are just lazy"-mantra. There IS a problem here.

since 3 years not-lazy players didn't have a problem

and we started without GBs or event buildings producing goods (wishing well, oasis)
and there were no guilds at that time: but that didn't stop us from being successful

 

[DeletedUser99588]

I can only agree that removing the FP-tax on trading would make the game easier. It would.

Unfortunately the game DEMAND that we trade. At least unless we are super-players who can conquer a province guarded by later-age units.

Wait until you have the troops capable of winning the fights and save yourself a lot of goods.

As mentioned above it is hard to get a trade if your are not in an active AND established Guild. I have considered starting a guild myself just to get the ACTIVE noobs into it. It would help a lot. With the occasional goods from the loop quest it would even make it possible to counquer those provinces.

Find a guild that suits your playing style. If your active it is normally very easy to get into a guild that can and will help clear trades. You may have to try a few until you get the right blend of people/environment. It is good fun starting your own guild I did it in Iron Age but be prepared to sacrifice a lot of time and probably fp's if you want it to be successful. You will no doubt after hustle to get goods to help clear your guild-mates trades. If you do have the time though it can be a very rewarding experience.

As for resource management I have that dillema ALSO even without the trade problems. Building GBs is key and like everyone else I want them and the benefits they offer. That is why 2 weeks ago I stopped researching and started building other peoples GBs full-time so I could get blueprints to build my own. I also have buildings making non-boosted goods because that is faster and cheaper than trading for them.

Personally with my main city I always kept a reasonable balance between research progress and GB donating. Stopping one for the other just didn't seem like a fun way to play for me although I do play that way with my less active cities. Most my bp's have come from motivating and polishing. Another reason to be in a good guild and a discerning factor which guild to choose. Pick one with the players in the era of the GB's you need. Fill your friends list up with players in the era of the GB's you need. Even polivate your neighbours if your not a proliferant attacker. The bp's will come but sometimes be prepared to use diamonds for that last bp if you really want to get the GB quickly.

So please Thanatos, stop it with the "Those noobs are just lazy"-mantra. There IS a problem here.

love Villow

Don't recall stating that at all. I can only imagine you have interpreted it that way out of a guilty conscience. Do you think of yourself in those terms? I sure hadn't but now you have me thinking

 

[DeletedUser108240]

no it is not

non-boosted goods = 1/5. I need to make two production to get 2 goods (= 8 hours)

now I produce goods and trade down 2:1
example: I give 4 gold for 2 limbstone. 5 boosted gold needs 4 hours and would cost the same as 2 unboosted limbstone. but after getting my 2 limbstone I would still have one 1 gold left. same costs, half time --> more goods. and those trades would sure accepted from neighbors very fast (ok not 4:2 but 40 gold for 20 limbstone)
(or if goods from your last era are needed: giving 2 for 1 sure also get sold. or you are in a terrible guild)

so everyone saying non-boosted goods are produced faster and cheaper are terrible players


since 3 years not-lazy players didn't have a problem

and we started without GBs or event buildings producing goods (wishing well, oasis)
and there were no guilds at that time: but that didn't stop us from being successful

I have offered 10 ebony for 5 stones. It timed out and died after 7 days.

 

[DeletedUser99588]

I have offered 10 ebony for 5 stones. It timed out and died after 7 days.

A trade that small is unlikely to be taken on the open market. Sounds like you need to find a better guild as every guild I have been in would have cleared that trade.

 

[DeletedUser108240]

A trade that small is unlikely to be taken on the open market. Sounds like you need to find a better guild as every guild I have been in would have cleared that trade.

Or maybe I need a better world From the responses here it seems most other worlds have a functioning and well used market. Here any offers at all is a rarity. And once people stop seeing the market as a place to buy and sell, it is not likely to get better without some massive intervention.

Ah well, I have 6 blueprints for the Tower of Babel now, The goods from there will help once I get it built.

 

[DeletedUser99588]

Do you mean world or neighbourhood? Only those in your neighbourhood, friends and guild list can take your trades. If it is one of the newer worlds I'm not sure if there is a shortage of activity. They did open several one after the other in a very short space of time and I get the impression they were mainly filled with existing players from other worlds. This tends to mean less activity from such players unless they truly are starting from scratch and putting their existing worlds on the back burner. Most though just start a new world to mine diamonds for their main world(s).

It does get easier over time and I know we keep stressing it but do try and find a better guild as that will be half the battle with progressing your city if your trades are being accepted quickly.

 

[DeletedUser108190]

Look for a different guild.
I'm in one that I think lets you join yourself (if I had to be approved it didn't take long) which is trade focussed (there are several others), my trades are pretty much always completed within 24 hours - I put up 2 this morning and one has completed already (< 6 hours).
The other thing to do is to check out guild members trade requests and fulfill as many as you can, only when all guild members are trading both ways can the system work. Most of my guild are asking for stuff I can't supply, but when I can I do, even if I don't need those goods yet.

Forget neighbourhood trades, most of the neighbourhood are same level or below yourself and most of them are probably struggling to understand how the game works and how to get the most out of it - I am just into early middle age, but it is obvious to me that many in my neighbourhood just haven't worked out how to play the game yet (some never will and I'm sure will leave). I've actually pretty well stood still for a week gathering resources and thinking about how or if I need to rebuild my city to make room for some new buildings, during which time I have been focussing on collecting GB blueprints. The game won't be rushed, but there is always a way.

 

[DeletedUser]

Spendings FPs on trades is senseless... belonging to a guild brings many advantages, including free and fast trades, but also many other.

Some trades, even with favourable rates for buyers, remain in the market for a very long time, if ever taken, simply because most people are not interested in spending FPs to acquire those goods, wich is certainly an disavantage for the seller.

Those who are starting playing on a world dont have that many FPs to spend, because they surely need to move through tech tree and eventually to get BPs. Acquiring goods for tech tree and GBs becomes costly for them, since they have to spend FPs acquiring goods, BPs and spending on tech tree.

I agree that this issue should be addressed more seriously.

+1 --> change goods trades to free of cost

or, you could plan ahead as mentioned before and place an offer on the market, at a rate that will entice others to take it, for goods of that era that you do not produce and will need in the future. when i was a new player, 3 years ago lol, i would look through the entire age i was in and at least one ahead and write down the totals of all goods i would need to get through the tech. i would start to place offers on the market weeks ahead of when i would actually need those goods and in most cases i would get them well before i got to that point in the tech tree.

additionally, how many fp are we really talking here anyway, i am at the end of tech and have been so since the progressive era and i seriously doubt that i have spent even 50 fp total on trades, and i take them freely to help others without regard for the few fp i have used. but, let's say i have spent double that 100 fp over 3 years, heck lets even triple that amount and say its 300 over 3 years. well, that's 100 per year, which is less than 2 per week. Are you guys really telling me that you can't spend 2 fp per week on average.

i totally agree with Thanatos on this being an element of game strategy that should not be removed. we have to have some thought as to where we allocate our resources.

Also, yes it does sound like you REALLY need to change guilds, the one you are in seems to really stink. the guild i am in will even clear unfair trades if the person posting states why they need it, such as GB of an age they are not in yet.
What world are you playing in?

Seems to be yet another problem resulting from the uncapping of GB levels since a ton of players now pay goods for fp donations on their GB!

 

[DeletedUser108240]

or, you could plan ahead as mentioned before and place an offer on the market, at a rate that will entice others to take it, for goods of that era that you do not produce and will need in the future. when i was a new player, 3 years ago lol, i would look through the entire age i was in and at least one ahead and write down the totals of all goods i would need to get through the tech. i would start to place offers on the market weeks ahead of when i would actually need those goods and in most cases i would get them well before i got to that point in the tech tree.

additionally, how many fp are we really talking here anyway, i am at the end of tech and have been so since the progressive era and i seriously doubt that i have spent even 50 fp total on trades, and i take them freely to help others without regard for the few fp i have used. but, let's say i have spent double that 100 fp over 3 years, heck lets even triple that amount and say its 300 over 3 years. well, that's 100 per year, which is less than 2 per week. Are you guys really telling me that you can't spend 2 fp per week on average.

i totally agree with Thanatos on this being an element of game strategy that should not be removed. we have to have some thought as to where we allocate our resources.

Also, yes it does sound like you REALLY need to change guilds, the one you are in seems to really stink. the guild i am in will even clear unfair trades if the person posting states why they need it, such as GB of an age they are not in yet.
What world are you playing in?

As I have said before I HAVE put up 'good' offers. They time out untaken.

 

[DeletedUser5180]

@ Villow

if you are still at a very early stage of the game and willing to start again in Fel Dranghyr i will take you into my guild, give you constant help with trades and advice and generally look after you.

 

[DeletedUser5514]

or, you could plan ahead as mentioned before and place an offer on the market, at a rate that will entice others to take it, for goods of that era that you do not produce and will need in the future. when i was a new player, 3 years ago lol, i would look through the entire age i was in and at least one ahead and write down the totals of all goods i would need to get through the tech. i would start to place offers on the market weeks ahead of when i would actually need those goods and in most cases i would get them well before i got to that point in the tech tree.

additionally, how many fp are we really talking here anyway, i am at the end of tech and have been so since the progressive era and i seriously doubt that i have spent even 50 fp total on trades, and i take them freely to help others without regard for the few fp i have used. but, let's say i have spent double that 100 fp over 3 years, heck lets even triple that amount and say its 300 over 3 years. well, that's 100 per year, which is less than 2 per week. Are you guys really telling me that you can't spend 2 fp per week on average.

i totally agree with Thanatos on this being an element of game strategy that should not be removed. we have to have some thought as to where we allocate our resources.

Also, yes it does sound like you REALLY need to change guilds, the one you are in seems to really stink. the guild i am in will even clear unfair trades if the person posting states why they need it, such as GB of an age they are not in yet.
What world are you playing in?

Seems to be yet another problem resulting from the uncapping of GB levels since a ton of players now pay goods for fp donations on their GB!

I have thousends of each goods, im doing loop quests for quite a while and i have all gbs at minimum L10+... but im still able to put myself in other players shoes. Main point wich most choose not to focus on is: why arent trades taken, even favourable trades? But i already told you: because they cost fps. Otherwise they would have been taken. Who loses the most? The ones who need the goods the most = the seller = smaller player. Not me, since i have a lot of fps stocked up to spend whenever i need and goods stocks quite high.

why is joining a good guild not easy ?

right because people are stupid:
a neighbor invites them and then they join a 5 man guild where 3 of them are neighbors

but actually it is very simple:
in almost any Top 50 of the guild rankings in any world there a few guilds with auto-join
simply search it and click one button (join) --> you are in a guild where trades flow
and in the case there is no guild where you can auto-join search a guild with many players which are a few eras higher
and then write the founder and say you are active and aid everyone every day --> bingo you are in
(or are you the stupid guy who only writes "can I join your guild" to a random player of that guild who can't even invite players and then wondering why you don't get an invitation?)

oh wait: a small player can't do that
then it is sure not because he is small. it is because he is a bad player

Ive been in a few top guilds and i can assure you that your assumption (trades being taken) is incorrect... besides, belonging to some guilds will demand gvg involvement or other type of obligations and doesnt guarantee trades to be taken.

 

[DeletedUser108240]

@ Villow

if you are still at a very early stage of the game and willing to start again in Fel Dranghyr i will take you into my guild, give you constant help with trades and advice and generally look after you.

I am at the end of the Iron Age.
Thank you for the offer, but I just joined another guild, as usual they promise everything, let us see what they can keep fitst.
So far it looks pretty good, lots of enthusiastic noobs and a few old ones who are actively active ;-))

Of course that still leaves everyone else here with a dying market. so my "Let Trade Flow" cry is still in effect.

I had a conversation today, with a fellow whose stone mine I had seen while doing the neighborhood rounds

From Villow 9/26/15 at 5:05 PM
You have stone. I have vine, would trade you 10 wine for 10 stone.
If you set up offer I pay the FP.
love Villow

From N__ 9/26/15 at 7:05 PM
Did you still need stones? and is there anyway not to pay FP for it? i dont need atm wine, but i will help you
Nikola

From Villow today at 9:57 PM (today is 30eth of september)
Yes, I still need stone. Trade is quite sparse on this market.
How about 20 stone for 20 dye or wine (I have both)
If you set up the trade I get to pay the FP. I do so happily ;-))
To pay no FP tax we would need to be in same guild. Easy to do, but it takes a 7-day cooldown before you can go back to your old guild.
love Villow

From N__ today at 10:02 PM
i need wine. I will put offer now
i know, but i cant leave this guild. and i dont wanna do it... and dont belive they will invite you

From Villow today at 10:04 PM
Thanks. Yes. a good guild is worth holding on to ;-)

From N__ today at 10:06 PM
this guild is verrry good, and we speak same language... and for few days i got very good friends...

As you can see he is better at spotting incoming mail than I am, thank god for that.
And you should notice how heavily that FP looms in the conversation.
Alas his native language obviously is not english. and I doubt I would do very well in a hungarian-speaking guild ;-))

 

[DeletedUser]

I have thousends of each goods, im doing loop quests for quite a while and i have all gbs at minimum L10+... but im still able to put myself in other players shoes. Main point wich most choose not to focus on is: why arent trades taken, even favourable trades? But i already told you: because they cost fps. Otherwise they would have been taken. Who loses the most? The ones who need the goods the most = the seller = smaller player. Not me, since i have a lot of fps stocked up to spend whenever i need and goods stocks quite high.

Well, i have considered that and like i said before, i don't think it is necessarily a problem with the fp, spending the fp outside of guild has always been there, yet it has not always been a problem. I think the bigger issue is the uncapping of the GB, this has caused people to want to use their fp on this and to also spend a ton of goods to get others to spend their fp on the GB. If you address the GB points problem, you may help with the fp problem in the process.