• Dear forum reader,
    To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account, you need a forum account. You can
    REGISTER HERE!
    Please ensure a translation into English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.
  • We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Support or Forum Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitment page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply
  • Forum Contests

    Won't you join us for out latest contest?
    You can check out the newest one here.

Combat AI improvements (1.02)

DeletedUser

I'm making a separate thread because I believe that the combat AI changes are the most significant change in the game since the introduction of Great Buildings. It changes the balance of combat / economy too.

My personal take on the changes are that they are excellent but a few other improvements should be made.

For what it's worth, I'm running with 125% combat bonuses, am the most tech advanced in my neighbourhood and have finished IndA tech tree. My neighbourhood consists of 50 players with one person using 130% defensive bonuses and IndA units to another just using 2 spearmen in Bronze Age.

The combat changes are a lot of fun first and foremost. Combat requires some strategy and you cannot just go with 1 grenadier and 7 long range and Auto Complete.
Unit balance changes I've noticed :
Rogues are now VERY useful. Having 1 in your army on defense means that unless they wipe your army in less than 2 turns, you will have to waste an attack on the rogue before it reaches your units. Rogues on attack will often be hit first too, so if you run 7x + 1 rogue you waste 1 attack of the enemy.
Long Range is pointless in Industrial Age. Short Range and Infantry Units all have range, and with increased distance they actually move, your LR be targetted by the second round at least. LR seems to be targetted second to rogues.
Jaeger Infantry is very good - it hides in forests and sticks to bushes - pulling your units out of formation.
All other units utilise their movement/attacks better now - either rushing into battle (Dragoons) or getting onto rocks within range and sniping (Riflemen)

You will need to dedicate a much larger amount of resources to PvP if you are inclined that way which is a good thing.

My feelings are that it doesn't help players on defense who are lower age. They'll still get broken and plundered (I don't but others do) by the bigger players and even more so as they're much easier to fight. There should be some way to modify the combat points to be greater than they currently are for 'fair' fights and lessen them against earlier age players. Also, as the ages passed, long range units were still used but at even greater ranges. If Long Range is to be of use, the combat maps should become much larger or unit movement should be lower to compensate. Last, there should be some way to scout your opponent first as combat is that much more challenging! I know I've ventured somewhat into an Idea/Suggestion but the core of this thread is to discuss the combat AI :)
 

DeletedUser12183

I know I'm going to start plundering everyone now to offset the increased losses.
 

DeletedUser8813

it certainly has changed the game.took a few loses at first but it can be overcome,
very glad i got the rogue hideout now even though everyone said they weren't worth it.and i admit till this update they were right but now ow boy am i gonna get those little beauties out more often.
i think it is about right ,as you don't want an unbeatable AI or it will kill pvp and we would all become sim builders/farmers.
as an attack try 4 lancers and 4 rogues and (130% att/def)..the AI turns the 4 rogues into lancers and wastes its turn then you just walk over them.yes i now love my rogues..:)
and i think those that want to fight in several towers may have to think about it a bit ,as the army you would need to fight in several towers would be huge
 

DeletedUser7719

Wow, the AI still went for my jaeger infantry over my rifleman?
 

DeletedUser8813

Wow, the AI still went for my jaeger infantry over my rifleman?

it is still not perfect but it is leaps and bounds better than it was..
as i said people would be on here screaming if it was perfect and you couldn't beat it without heavy losses all the time.
i think this gives you just enough grief to cost you dearly if you make a mistake.
 

DeletedUser4906

You'll definitely take casualties, much tougher......:cool:
 

DeletedUser10694

I know I'm going to start plundering everyone now to offset the increased losses.

Me to. It's a better AI now, that I have to say. But battles I used to fight before and loose very little, is now costing me a lot in damaged units and total losses. So much so I have a few choices about the future of how I play for PvP towers which is all i really do in this game. Either I need at least 35% more infantry to take account of my losses now, or play around same percentage of battles less in a day because I wont have the infantry left to do any more, or go into building my city and trading which is what I'm thinking of doing now. It's not my thing really, but the PvP part has become too expensive to play. for me at least. I just find trading boring, but having invested so much time and effort into getting to colonial and Gbs I don't want to abandon the game now. Maybe if the repair times were changed to 2 hours from 4 to balance it a bit, that would make a difference. Or be able to juggle which barracks the damaged ones are in so you don't have to wait 16 consecutive hours to repair a fully damaged barracks infantry. Either way, its a better AI but now its too expensive for me to carry on in just time alone.
 

DeletedUser

i'm loving it , normally i can attack all neighbours in one hit ,just changing units around when hurt , now ive got to weight for them to heal or recruit until i can attack again , for the first time in a long while i nearly lost , it made me smile.

Not to hard but a lot more thinking when facing greater forces
 

DeletedUser17220

i'am only in LMA but this is something interesting that i noticed after a few pvp battles (maybe not entirely correct)
heavy melee stay with long range to "protect" them, but as soon as the long range are all wiped out, they rush to the enemy
rogues still chase after your fast units, but light/heavy melees don't, they move towards your range units first
if you have a fast unit carefully placed beyond moving range of AI's fast units, they move very slowly and become very easy to kill (ofc by long range units)
rogues absorb AI's attack first
AI's light melee sometimes stay in the forest forever.... until they get hurt
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser7719

Just got the maximum score for InA against this "improved" AI (click here). Looks like they have a new kind of stupidity compared to before, but they are still harder regardless. It also way harder for me to use my long range. May end up selling one (of my two) and build two more jaegers
 

DeletedUser10694

Well I have just played 7 more battles against same age and lower age and I have lost so much i have nothing left worth using. Even 3 silly slingers got the other end and took out one trebula ( I am embarased to say). I have 3 canon camps, 3 treb camps, Longbow, great sword, imperial guards you name it. Sorry but this is just hopeless now. I wont be able to do anymore battles for at least several hours if not more & I don't have that sort of enthusiasm to sit around twiggling my thumbs for the next battle. Its the only thing that has kept me in this game to now. But even that's not possible anymore.
 

DeletedUser

You can speed up healing with diamonds :> And sadly it is the side effect of this new AI, that diamond-players will have even more advantage over non-diamond ones.
 

DeletedUser10694

You can speed up healing with diamonds :> And sadly it is the side effect of this new AI, that diamond-players will have even more advantage over non-diamond ones.

Yes, I guess that's why they have done it this way and still keep 4hr repairs. I can afford so much, but I wont throw money away repairing something that will get destroyed sooner rather than later. Buy an expansion or BP yes, you have them for the entire game, but not repairs. I don't think I will invest anymore of my hard earned money into a game that discourages one of its most attractive features if your not into city building and farming that is. I can see my self getting that bored I will end up finding another game to play instead. Preferably subscription type so all is fare and equal. Its a shame really. The AI is way way better and needed to be done. But this is just unplayable now unless as you say, you have diamonds for instant repairs all the time.
 

DeletedUser6461

Yes, I guess that's why they have done it this way and still keep 4hr repairs. I can afford so much, but I wont throw money away repairing something that will get destroyed sooner rather than later. Buy an expansion or BP yes, you have them for the entire game, but not repairs. I don't think I will invest anymore of my hard earned money into a game that discourages one of its most attractive features if your not into city building and farming that is. I can see my self getting that bored I will end up finding another game to play instead. Preferably subscription type so all is fare and equal. Its a shame really. The AI is way way better and needed to be done. But this is just unplayable now unless as you say, you have diamonds for instant repairs all the time.

Hi Misty,
Don't get discouraged by the very first day of the AI improvement. I have been hearing from the day one about the complaint that AI is worthless and people need their defending army to work intelligently same as the offensive army of the opponent etc... and when the real change comes and AI started working wisely, people started complaint again by whining on the diamond players (diamond whining is a resort many people adopt when they are on a disadvantage) :confused:
I am sure you (and hence everyone) will cope-up with this improved AI sooner. Now you have to make a slight adjustment in your army. I have already removed my Long Range buildings in order to replace them with Jaegers, Lancers and Granadiers etc... and I have seen many of the towns are getting a new military make over which is a good sign in my point of view. There will be some extra damage of troops at the beginning but everything will be normalized when it is familiarized. However, i don't mind if someone suggest an improvement to reduce the 4 hours healing time to 3 hours or even 2 hours (though 2 hours is quite fast) just to keep the diamond whiners a little break :cool:
 

DeletedUser10694

Hi Misty,
Don't get discouraged by the very first day of the AI improvement.

Heck, the AI was awful before, now it is excellent. I don't have anything against diamond users, if they can afford it great. It helps fund the costs that go into keeping the game moving forward etc and maintaining it. But I wont use my money to instant repair troops every game or so, that's just a total waste & at 40 diamonds a go, very expensive. But at the same time, it has made the use of long ranged weapons, at least as they stand at the moment, more or less useless. So yes, time to get rid of them, or only keep one of each type. My only complaint is I enjoy battles, many battles a day (around 50 plus). But now even with all the infantry I have, I doubt I will even get to do 15 to 20 due to very long 4hr repair/heal times, and if you loose all infantry in one barracks, then to rebuild them all is 16 hours. So I will just get totally bored and loose interest in the game. But that's just me. But I love the new intelligence, I just want to make that clear. It's just tipped the balance to making the whole PvP tournements a whole lot less attractive and many hours of boredom waiting for usable infantry. Maybe they should include a scouting option before you decide on a battle. If nothing else it would help keep the losses to a minimum with strategic attack. Bit like you do in real world to find out what the enemy might have waiting for you. I went onto someone city the other day and was faced with 4 field guns and 4 musketeers. I didn't even have a chance to retreat, the field guns took there turn 1st and took out two canons. Doesn't sound much, but thats a another 8 hours of repairs :)
 

DeletedUser

Heck, the AI was awful before, now it is excellent.

Excellent? You should have seen what we had to cut due to performance requirements. :)

On a more serious note (not that the above isn't true though), reworking the points system is one of my bigger priorities right now - so don't despair. As long time users can tell you, it may take some time for things to get adjusted, but that doesn't mean we aren't working on them.

Regards,

Anwar
 

DeletedUser

Well I have just played 7 more battles against same age and lower age and I have lost so much i have nothing left worth using. Even 3 silly slingers got the other end and took out one trebula ( I am embarased to say). I have 3 canon camps, 3 treb camps, Longbow, great sword, imperial guards you name it. Sorry but this is just hopeless now. I wont be able to do anymore battles for at least several hours if not more & I don't have that sort of enthusiasm to sit around twiggling my thumbs for the next battle. Its the only thing that has kept me in this game to now. But even that's not possible anymore.

We have to adapt. That`s what we did before and that`s what we will do now as well. Myself I deleted a siege building and raising jaegers and lancers instead. I consider deleting more siege buildings because, well, they are almost pointless now.

I do think admins should balance the increase in losses (and costs) by either giving more battle points, decrease the costs or the time needed to raise troops, or any other idea they can come up with. The way I see it right now the farmers are in advantage and this type of players are not as active as those of us who enjoy fighting more than just gathering resources. The issue here is that in the long run there will be less and less fighters and more farmers.

Im not complaining, I enjoy a challenge. However I have 150% attack bonus and millions of resources to make for the losses and there are players who dont have all that. So Im pretty sure they are not as excited by the new AI than I am, hence the need to rebalance the PvP somehow.
 

DeletedUser10694

Excellent? You should have seen what we had to cut due to performance requirements. :)

On a more serious note (not that the above isn't true though), reworking the points system is one of my bigger priorities right now - so don't despair. As long time users can tell you, it may take some time for things to get adjusted, but that doesn't mean we aren't working on them.

Regards,

Anwar

That's a relief. You did great on AI & the rest I have said already. I'm sure it has been suggested before, but maybe something simple to program that encourages strategic play (don't pick on the weak ones), is don't make highest points the winner, make the highest average points person the winner. Ie, the one who played the least battles and earned the most points. Probably too simple and flawed, but an idea non the less :)
 

DeletedUser3157

Some of my thoughts and feedback after my daily hood visit today

1) Rogue has always been useful(both attack and defense). I quess now it is even better when used in defense cause AI moves it more aggressive.
2) Short range often plays defensively and starts sitting back far away on some rocks. Short range should almost never play defensively. Esp if attacker has long range units, but also bad idea against other high mobility units which can close in first and deliver the damage(fast, jägers). Best attack in game, no retaliation and one of the lowest defenses in game is not a combo where you want to be hit first. Today I picked up some short range units with almost full long range army and they were doing nothing, just sitting back there skipping turns.
3) Short and long range units both climb rocks/hills and hit units nearby, causing them to get needlessly retaliated. This problem was fixed with last AI at some point, but is now back.
4) Had a full long range vs long range fight today. Was impressed by AI, he was fighting kinda like a human player would have. Lucky my military bonuses bailed me out.
5) Long range still has some uses, esp drawing out AI units and forcing them to be aggressive. But they seem like quite some work and mircomanagement in most fights. More of a supportive/luxury unit now. May need to drop them and get more jägers if I want to auto-combat more fights, will think about it and see.
6) Need to single out again couple of the more annoying defense players to use case spefic armies. Hadn't done that for a while, since gren+LR worked for pretty much anything except super high defense bonus players.
7) 328% defense bonus is still not enough to trouble me
8) LR is always the target for AI, even if it is too weak to cause any damage to any unit on the field and there are other units which could.
9) Improved AI offsets the inbalance between collect pts and pvp pts in this game even further.
 

DeletedUser

I am doing fine with LR for the vast majority of my neighborhood battles. I think it is a little exaggerated to say they are useless. It sounds like a lot of the problems people are complaining about could be solved by building more military buildings. You shouldn't have to wait 16 hours before attacking unless you are running with the bare minimum number of buildings. You have chosen to build other things with your space and shouldn't blame an improvement of the game for the consequences. It was boring being able to go through most of neighborhood without losing any units tbh
 
Top