changing goods deposits

[DeletedUser2029]

Proposal:
enable the ability to change goods deposits. this should be a premium feature.


Reason:
I'm not sure how the deposits are being fairly randomised, but because not all players that start the game actually continue playing certain goods are always lacking. this was painfully visible back when there were only 22 goods (it was more likely to get stone in HMA than in BA), but because not all players keep on playing, this can happen with any deposit.

Details:
we should be able to change our deposits to better suit the needs of our guild or just to create an advantage in our neighborhood market.
basically, you should be able to change any deposit for another of the same age once per deposit.
e.g. for 1st deposit 50 diamonds, for 2nd 100, for 3rd 200,.... (1st deposit does not necessarily mean the one you get in Dunarsund)
once you change the deposit, you're stuck with it permanently.
also, the numbers are just an example, I leave prices to marketing.

Visual Aids:
sorry, none

Balance:
doesn't change any feature

Abuse Prevention:
the window for market ratios takes care of that, plus it is available to anyone and the need to do this comes after the 2 jester quests so everyone will have the ability to change at least 1.

Summary:
I think the idea is self explanatory

 

[DeletedUser]

because not all players that start the game actually continue playing certain goods are always lacking. ... because not all players keep on playing, this can happen with any deposit.

It seems to me you are assuming that the deposits' random distribution depends on the neighbourhood the player is in and tries to balance it. That is incorrect as far as I know.
Random means random.

Balance:
doesn't change any feature

Changing deposits at will is very much a balance topple.

Abuse Prevention:
the window for market ratios takes care of that, plus it is available to anyone and the need to do this comes after the 2 jester quests so everyone will have the ability to change at least 1.

Players who invest a lot of money in this game can practically go through the entire game without any interaction of other players for trading, simply because they can change their deposits and buildings at will.
A small group of friends can make a dedicated trading group by changing their deposits and only trade with eachother.

The necessary interaction is a great feat of this game that you'd be eliminating.
If you're stuck, wait for a neighbourhood merge, produce the goods yourself (some is better than none) or if you're desperate, use the Game Merchants.

- L

 

[DeletedUser65]

no from me for this one, for all the reasons posted by lodroth

 

[DeletedUser4089]

I'd like to point sommething out from the guide to putting ideas up..

Dont put up ideas to make yourself richer.. or make the game easier. The game is meant to be played over time and is meant to have a lot of strategy to it.

I think that describes this pretty well.
And a no from me.

 

[Surge]

The randomization is actually making the game interesting and places emphasis on cooperation and trade. This comes in, market's going to blow up. Great Depression hits. No one progresses. The end.

 

[DeletedUser2029]

one thing you all missed

you can change any deposit ONLY ONE TIME, after you change it, that's it, you're stuck with it.
the price increase I was talking about means that it will get more and more expensive to change all of them.

as for the rest
1. making myself richer - I admit this is a problem, but I mentioned it in the abuse section
2. Lodroth's exclusiveness argument - isn't this the whole point of "guild only" trading? this means that certain guilds will become more exclusive, but it may also mean that less active players could strenghten their position in large guilds

 

[DeletedUser]

you can change any deposit ONLY ONE TIME, after you change it, that's it, you're stuck with it. ...
2. Lodroth's exclusiveness argument - isn't this the whole point of "guild only" trading? this means that certain guilds will become more exclusive, but it may also mean that less active players could strenghten their position in large guilds

I didn't miss it, but still my exclusiveness argument is valid with the dedicated friends group.

The guild I'm in does have a Guild Only trading rule, this to make every resource we have kept in the guild and not allow 'enemies' to benefit from our economy. But sometimes we have to stray from that path when progressing players hit some Techs or Negotiations that no one has or produces yet.

So trading outside the guild is necessary now and then. It creates a more challenging environment because you'll have to make some decisions you'd never have to make if you can rely on your friends the whole time.

Besides, there are a lot of guilds who do not have a "Guild Only" rule, so that argument alone is situational.

- L

 

[DeletedUser17]

Thank you for your proposal and everyone's comments. Is can see there are a lot of arguments for and against this. I will pass this on.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Players who invest a lot of money in this game can practically go through the entire game without any interaction of other players for trading, simply because they can change their deposits and buildings at will.
A small group of friends can make a dedicated trading group by changing their deposits and only trade with each other...

- L

Noob's (actually more like sergeant :p) opinion:
Lemme add one thing to this: what can you spend money on? Oh yeah, buying diamonds to automatically unlock a research OR negotiating a sector. Both of these include goods. I would rather have an infinite amount of changes and building the bonus yourself rather than just use diamonds to pay for your goods.

 

[DeletedUser4800]

If its a ONE TIME change and costs lets say 500 diamonds I think its a worthwhile addition, more revenue stream for the developers, but only as such. If you can change resources more than once than its just an auto win situation where you don't need to trade with anyone and can finish the game on your own.

I think as a one time thing you'd only want to use this in severe situations where you are first in the guild and your neighborhood so that you might want to change a resource to get it on your own.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can see where the idea is going but it lacks 'form'. It's like sweet water that was splashed on the floor instead of pouring it into a nice cup.

I like it but unless you make it more clear and define principles with greater detail it risks to never hit the game.

 

[DeletedUser2029]

I can see where the idea is going but it lacks 'form'. It's like sweet water that was splashed on the floor instead of pouring it into a nice cup.

I like it but unless you make it more clear and define principles with greater detail it risks to never hit the game.

the idea is as straightforward as it can be. if you have any concrete suggestions, please state them. this isn't a poetry contest.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, I wouldn't mind being able to swap my "Zink Ore" for some "Sulphur Blocks", as I just love the Gunpowder Manufactory building tons more than the Brass Foundry.

Besides that, the ability to change one's deposits ONCE(!) would give the game a neat little twist every now and then. Of course this "change" should still be random, and not enable any option of choosing which deposit one prefers.

Regarding the costs... I don't quite see the need for diamonds here. I would see it as fair to have such an option available to non-diamond players as well, however the price being 10x the amount of any goods building of the same age as the deposit one wishes to change. For BA that would mean 3400 gold and 4900 supplies, while for the LMA 270000 gold and 540000 supplies.

I don't really see the abuse that has been mentioned here, so I'm in favour of this idea / one including the possibility of non-diamond ONETIME swapping.

Cheers,
Bloodwyn

 

[DeletedUser7719]

ten times? I would never be able for a HMA building, and I'm about halfway through the LMA (maybe 20 times the 2 day supply of that good?)! I'll agree with the one time though

 

[DeletedUser]

ten times?

That could be changed ( = lowered or raised) of course, but I was thinking of a price that is high enough to make each player think twice before swapping a goods deposit.
Having each player pay 10x the amount of costs for a goods building of the same age as the deposit they wish to swap, well... That's a ton of resources, however in my opinion, compensates the fairly large impact on game-play.

~ Bloodwyn

 

[DeletedUser2029]

Well, I wouldn't mind being able to swap my "Zink Ore" for some "Sulphur Blocks", as I just love the Gunpowder Manufactory building tons more than the Brass Foundry.

Besides that, the ability to change one's deposits ONCE(!) would give the game a neat little twist every now and then. Of course this "change" should still be random, and not enable any option of choosing which deposit one prefers.

Regarding the costs... I don't quite see the need for diamonds here. I would see it as fair to have such an option available to non-diamond players as well, however the price being 10x the amount of any goods building of the same age as the deposit one wishes to change. For BA that would mean 3400 gold and 4900 supplies, while for the LMA 270000 gold and 540000 supplies.

I don't really see the abuse that has been mentioned here, so I'm in favour of this idea / one including the possibility of non-diamond ONETIME swapping.

Cheers,
Bloodwyn

no to buying a random change.
the reason I proposed this was that the current randomisation causes imbalance. the purpose of change is to correct that, not to spend money on something that could possibly have no effect on current situation (and thus make it worse). also, that's why the diamonds are absolutely necessary, if you're spending real money, the odds change has to go in your favour.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

ok, we can use the ten times now if it's our choice

 

[DeletedUser]

the idea is as straightforward as it can be. if you have any concrete suggestions, please state them. this isn't a poetry contest.

My bad, now to the actual idea:

Your idea hinders player interaction actually, i have reread it today on a sober head and it appears that the more money you have the less you have to communicate. If you could somehow overcome this issue it would be great. I think you need to rethink it from the very base so that you do not kill interaction but actually boost it.

E.G: a player could pay 50-100 diamonds for having every player in his neighborhood have a pop up with his trade offer. This will actually be realistic because in real life only businesses that have big budgets can make commercials.
Well you get the point.

Cheers

 

[DeletedUser7719]

or you can pay 5 diamonds per a good you need... (on map or research tree)

 

[DeletedUser]

One question I'd like to throw in here: Why does something always have to cost diamonds?

Surely the devs need players to buy diamonds and thus finance the game, but I'm not sure that this would go in the direction the devs initially intended. Now I'm not part of Innogame's Staff, so I don't really have any say in this, but from what I've read and heard, the diamonds are only supposed to be a possibility for players to speed up the game.

An idea like the “commercials” mungiu suggested (which needs a thread of its own), would not fall under “speeding up the game” IMO. Instead I understand such an idea to enhance the diplomatic / non-PvP related features of this game.

Whether a feature will cost diamonds or not, is still up to the devs (I have no say in this!). I'm just asking for people to please consider other possibilities as well.

To come back to the proposed idea, I'm currently against it.

If a players can choose which deposit they want / need, then I don't really see the strategy involved here. In real life you can't choose which resources are on your land either. Furthermore, if a player has to pay real money for such a feature, then I don't see it as a real improvement to the game. For me it'd be just another feature making it a pay-to-play game. Just my opinion(s).

Regards,
Bloodwyn