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Already Suggested: Attack and Defence

DeletedUser11930

I would like to suggest that the GB bonuses be readdressed ie both defenders and attackers should have their boosts from GB's adjusted.
IE if an attacker has both defensive and attacking bonuses then so should the defender or just the bonus relevant to their position,ie atacker has attack boost only and no defence boost and defender has defence boost(He already has no attack boost) so you can see how unbalanced PVP is also sort out the mergers ie there should be no more than 1 Technological age between all kingdoms in a neighbourhood it would make pvp more interesting as people may fight back more rather than go against for example colonial age units with early/high middle age units
 

DeletedUser

  1. You need to use the template for ideas;
  2. This idea has already been discussed in detail here; and
  3. I am still firmly of the opinion that the current system is fine and giving defending troops an attack boost would kill off PvP for casual players (and anyone starting the game late). Imagine joining a neighbourhood where a significant proportion of players were the same age and had 30-50% boosted attack and defence and you had no boosts; you would very quickly come to the conclusion that PvP was a bad idea as you would be taking huge casualties each fight and could not do more than a handful (if that) of fights before running out of fresh troops. The current system gives everyone a fair chance to do PvP as the defender's defensive boosts, although significant enough to increase the attacker's losses, are not significant enough to make PvP unviable for the majority.
 

Estipar

Chief Warrant Officer
Agreed with some defenses I face of over 350% and 400% imagine if the Defenders had this attack bonus as well... It would just kill off PvP and make it unplayable.
 

DeletedUser

+1000000

Yes, please make defensive GBs to boost our attack aswell. And to compensate for increased unit losses, make each military building to contain up to 5 squads with 10 units in each squad. That will compensate for the increased losses. Example:

Tank factory: 5 Battlegroups. 5 Tanks in one Battlegroup.
Conscription Office: 5 Squads. 10 Conscripts in one Squad.


Imagine joining a neighbourhood where a significant proportion of players were the same age and had 30-50% boosted attack and defence and you had no boosts; you would very quickly come to the conclusion that PvP was a bad idea as you would be taking huge casualties each fight and could not do more than a handful (if that) of fights before running out of fresh troops. The current system gives everyone a fair chance to do PvP as the defender's defensive boosts, although significant enough to increase the attacker's losses, are not significant enough to make PvP unviable for the majority.

Ins't that how it should be? If someone has worked hard to get all 9 blueprints for a defensive GB, and gathered all goods, and then also upgraded it a couple of levels, wouldn't their reward be to actually be able to hold of a less stronger player? If not, what is really the purpose with defensive GBs then if you should never be able to hold off an attack?

I know for sure that I am not interested if I manage to injure the attackers units. What matters for me is if the attacker manages to break through my defense or not. And currently this game is running in some sort of "welfare mode", where everything should be equal, and everyone should be able to attack everyone and blah blah blah.

I'm telling you, REALITY balances itself out. There's no need to make dumb and unrealistic balances because they will just lead to even more balances. I agree that the PvP will get broken if they add offensive boost to defensive GBs, but that is, obviusly, because of other dumb balances. As said, balances that actually destroy the game. Let reality balance the game, it will work, but none belives that!

Our so called "army" (whoa army!) consists of 50-100 units! What?! That must be a really tiny army! Another good example is in the barracks. The Conscription Office requires 1420 in population, but it gives at most 5 Conscripts! Sure, the office surely have some other personel aswell, but does that mean that 1415 other people are working on that barrack? It would be much more logical if one office could hold 5 squads, and 1 squad would consist of 10 units. That would give us 50 units per barrack, and THEN we would have enough units to actually fight defences that are boosted in attack aswell.

But as I said before, I've tried to explain this in the thread you linked to above, but it seems that either none understands, or cares. So instead of repeating that thread again, I'll just stop writing here.


Agreed with some defenses I face of over 350% and 400% imagine if the Defenders had this attack bonus as well... It would just kill off PvP and make it unplayable.

Once again; this problem doesn't lay in boosting attack in defence, but the fact of the extremely dumb building called Watchfire.

Many people say that "oh defensive GBs can't boost attack because new players wont have a chance", uhm what about Watchfires then? They will make it even more unbalanced, because they are not even aviable to new players. GB on the other hand, are always aviable for new players.
 

DeletedUser16026

I would be okay with both Offensive and Defensive Great Buildings giving both attack and defense boost, so as long as the bonus on Defensive Great Buildings is adjusted to 5% per level (50% top at level 10). There are 2 Defensive ones, and 3 Offensive ones, so that will still leave space for the attacker to be at an advantage, yet not as much as they are now.

I see no reason why defenses of 350% and 400% are brought up, they are gained from other buildings that will not undergo this change. The change would only apply to the Great Buildings, so these defenses will still have at most (if both defensive GBs are max level) 100% attack bonus.
 

DeletedUser7719

Yes, please make defensive GBs to boost our attack aswell. And to compensate for increased unit losses, make each military building to contain up to 5 squads with 10 units in each squad. That will compensate for the increased losses. Example:

Tank factory: 5 Battlegroups. 5 Tanks in one Battlegroup.
Conscription Office: 5 Squads. 10 Conscripts in one Squad.

Our so called "army" (whoa army!) consists of 50-100 units! What?! That must be a really tiny army! Another good example is in the barracks. The Conscription Office requires 1420 in population, but it gives at most 5 Conscripts! Sure, the office surely have some other personel aswell, but does that mean that 1415 other people are working on that barrack? It would be much more logical if one office could hold 5 squads, and 1 squad would consist of 10 units. That would give us 50 units per barrack, and THEN we would have enough units to actually fight defences that are boosted in attack aswell.
IMO, your idea would just take us in a circle since it makes no sense itself that we attack with eight units. I would like to think of it as us to attack with squads... (if your idea was to change the singular name into squads, that would be something I would agree it)



Isn't that how it should be? If someone has worked hard to get all 9 blueprints for a defensive GB, and gathered all goods, and then also upgraded it a couple of levels, wouldn't their reward be to actually be able to hold of a less stronger player? If not, what is really the purpose with defensive GBs then if you should never be able to hold off an attack?
The reason why I don't like this is part of your words:
the extremely dumb building called Watchfire.

And currently this game is running in some sort of "welfare mode", where everything should be equal, and everyone should be able to attack everyone and blah blah blah.
lol, wouldn't it be equal if both attack and defensive GBs give attack and defensive bonuses?

I'm telling you, REALITY balances itself out. There's no need to make dumb and unrealistic balances because they will just lead to even more balances. I agree that the PvP will get broken if they add offensive boost to defensive GBs, but that is, obviusly, because of other dumb balances.
Yes, this will kill most of PvP unless they up the points per battles, or add bonus points for breaching defensively boosted troops because many players would just change all their military into residential and production buildings and use their RAH, Lighthouse, and St. Marks to gain more points than what they could do with PvP
 

DeletedUser13805

if there was no boosts there would be no arguing over unfair defence or attack !!! but no one listens at all to this idea as they dont want to lose there boosts
 

DeletedUser

IMO, your idea would just take us in a circle since it makes no sense itself that we attack with eight units. I would like to think of it as us to attack with squads... (if your idea was to change the singular name into squads, that would be something I would agree it)

Yeah, but the defender also has 8 units :) Let's make an example:

We start with the current system, so lets say that we have 100 units (which is many with the current system). If the defender has boosts to both attack and defense, then the attacker will obvuisly lose more units. So, for instance, instead of losing 2 or 3 units, the attacker might lose 6-7 units. This means, that if we have 100 units, we will be able to do 10-12 fights before we run out of units.

However,

what will happen if each military building holds squads instead? This means that in the "Training Window", we train 1 squad instead of 1 unit, or 1 battlegroup instead of 1 tank (or car) or even 1 battery instead of 1 RFC. So, if Squad 3 has 6 out of 10 units alive, we can "Retrain" the squad, which will fill the squad to 10 units. This means that a military building will hold up to 50 units. This also mean that our armies will consist of about 1000 units. So if we still lose about 6-7 units per battle, we will be able to do 100-120 fights, and as we already know, a neighborhood holds 80-90 players as most. Even IF we would lose 8 units in every battle, we would still be able to go through the entire neighbohood :)


lol, wouldn't it be equal if both attack and defensive GBs give attack and defensive bonuses?

Yeah, but it wouldn't be equal due to "charity"-reasons but to realism.

From a logical and realistic point of view, the offensive great buildings doesn't give any "magical" boosts, but instead increased moral, strenght and battle techniques, maybe even more luck - that is how our GBs makes units stronger in battle. So, if Zeus increases the moral, strenght, will to fight etc, and thereby makes our units stronger, both in attack and defense, how come that our units doesn't get stronger in attack when they have a huge castle supporting them?

Yes, I mean Deal Castle. It has loads of cannons in a 360 degree direction around the whole castle. This castle is obviusly built in our city (yes, we built it there), so wouldn't this castle help us to defend our city in an attack? And if it does, shouldn't all those cannons give us increased fire power - resulting in a boost to our attack?


Yes, this will kill most of PvP unless they up the points per battles, or add bonus points for breaching defensively boosted troops because many players would just change all their military into residential and production buildings and use their RAH, Lighthouse, and St. Marks to gain more points than what they could do with PvP

A very simple solution would be to actually award the attacker with points depending on damage done, even if the attacker retreats :) If the attacker successfully manages to breach the defense, the points could be multiplied with a bonus constant, for instance 1.5 or even 2. Also, there could be increased plundering options if it's harder to breach the defense, for instance the attack could plunder a building that hasn't finished yet, and take the production that has been produced so far :)



To be honest, I've actually started to like the suggestion of removing all boosts to units. The military buildings could offer other bonuses instead. For instance, they could allow more units in battle, faster training time, faster healing time, better plundering etc.

Just as an example, the Statue of Zeus could be like this:

LevelAdditional Units in BattleReduction in Training Time
11-5%
21-10%
32-15%
42-20%
53-25%
63-30%
74-35%
84-40%
95-45%
105-50%
 

DeletedUser7719

lol, I have also had a reduction in healing/training time idea (I'll put it in the spoiler below), but I have never posted it here knowing it will never be implemented (kinda of like your squad idea) because it brings too much change into the game.
Back to the OP, I do believe that the attacker should have the advantage no matter the case since it proves that the player is actively playing the game. Until we have the ability to control our own defense, I will not support this kind of idea.
I want to change the effect of attack GB to something totally different. The new change I want instead would be (at a level 10) -50% to training and healing time. Having more than one GB will combine (rather than stack) the bonus (So instead of waiting 4 hours for an RFC, it'll take 2 hours on one level 10 GB, 1 hour with two level 10s, and 30 minutes with all three). This also feels like it'll balance the outcome of the old bonus of Alcatraz (maybe this new GB should be buffed up even more with this change ;D).
Since there will be no such thing as an attack bonus now, I think the defense should be cut into a quarter of what it is now. Watchfires will give 1% defense, and both defensive GBs can now only give a total of 50% boost. (+2% each level until level 8 and 9 where it's +3% and level 10 could be +5%).
 
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