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Anyone found a use for Howitzers yet?

DeletedUser

I'm struggling to find a scenario where they would be a positive replacement for grenadiers?

Slower and with less armour, on defence they don't have enough attack to cope with a GB-ed up attacker. Especially as the AI refuses to hold station and wait for the attacker to advance.

On attack, Jaegers are more flexible / survivable and riflemen have more range / damage.

I'm currently mulling over rebuilding a grenadier barracks and trashing the howitzers :/
 

DeletedUser

Grenadiers are better when attacking but I wouldn't use them in defence.

Howitzers are a defensive counter to Jaegers since they can attack stealth units and have the highest attack statistic of any unit (if you factor in the blast ability); so, if you are finding that Howitzers don't have enough attack to deal with GB'd up attackers then nothing will.
 

DeletedUser

Attacker had 7 rifles and 1 grenadier with +80% I defended with 4 rifles and 4 howitzers with +150% Attacker walked over me losing 1 full unit and 2 units to half life. Howitzers were taking 3 shots to fell a rifleman.
I'd tried the previous day with 8 Lancers against the same attack and it was like watching horses walk into the beefburger factory. They charged into rifle range and then all attacked the grenadier whilst they got lead poisoning!
 
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DeletedUser

Rifles have an attack bonus against Howitzers and greater range; so its not much surprise that they did a lot of damage.

I'd probably try to counter that attacking setup with Jaegers as they have high defence and stealth or your own Riflemen (although they give the most points to the attacker). You probably won't defeat it every time but the point is to do as much damage as possible.
 

DeletedUser

Thanks Martynius.
He is #1, I'm #2 he attacks me last each day so doesn't really care about losses, not that he is taking many recently! 8 rifles against his 7+1 was a similar disappointment.
I think it really comes down to game design means there is no level playing field (Zeus, Del Monte and Aachen give +ATK and +DEF as I'm sure you know).
Thus the game is geared towards "He who dares wins". Even the Watchfires only add +DEF to defenders, so I don't see they will help in this situation. It isn't so much the weakness of the defence, it is the weakness of the counter-attack. An ATK unbuffed rifleman against a +80% defence buffed riflemen means 3 shots vs two. We all know Han shot first, so my guys are always staring down the barrel of a loaded blaster!
 

DeletedUser

Howitzers prod buttock on stealth units, they are the only ranged unit that can hit Jaegers and Rangers under forest cover, also the damage is amplified the closer they are to the target. When facing a bunch of Jaegers these would be the weapon of choice.
 

DeletedUser

Culurien said:
Thanks Martynius.
He is #1, I'm #2 he attacks me last each day so doesn't really care about losses, not that he is taking many recently! 8 rifles against his 7+1 was a similar disappointment.
I think it really comes down to game design means there is no level playing field (Zeus, Del Monte and Aachen give +ATK and +DEF as I'm sure you know).
Thus the game is geared towards "He who dares wins". Even the Watchfires only add +DEF to defenders, so I don't see they will help in this situation. It isn't so much the weakness of the defence, it is the weakness of the counter-attack. An ATK unbuffed rifleman against a +80% defence buffed riflemen means 3 shots vs two. We all know Han shot first, so my guys are always staring down the barrel of a loaded blaster!
Click to expand...

Put up 8 breech loaders one day, I bet he'll lose to that. Once he has 150% atk bonus though (like the guy in my 'hood), nothing will stop him : (
 

DeletedUser2973

this is why there needs too be bonus buiding for attacking in defence mode when attackers have a good attacking bonus defending with 0 attack bonus is useless.i had a player with 90% attack bonus and i have a 200% defence but it counts too nothing as when my defending force attack they deal too little damage too make effect
 

DeletedUser

Hmmm, a Breech Loader on defence has the base 20 ATK. A Rifleman on offence (with his buffed 80%) has 45 defence.
Based on the expectation of it requiring more than two shots from a breech loader to kill a riflemen given they have less than 50% ratio of ATK to defence, but the riflemen will easily two shot the breech loaders:
Round 1) He loses 2 and 2/3rds riflemen, I lose 3 breech loaders
Round 2) He loses the damaged rifleman, a whole new one and one more damaged by 1/3rd. I lose 2 and a half breech loaders
Round 3) He loses the damaged rifleman and one more damaged by 1/3rd. I lose the damaged BL + one more leaving 1
Round 4) He loses another 1/3rd damage leaving him 3 riflemen to finish the last BL.

If the BLs could 2 shot the Rifles it would go like this:

Round 1) Lose 4 rifles, Lose 2 BLs
Round 2) Lose 3 rifles, Lose 1 BL
Round 3) Lose last remaining rifle
But the over-arching problem is that the Grenadier on pointman will soak up potentially 4 or 5 BL shots and they will fixate on it for the first round, which messes everything up. The AI ignores the fact that the Grenadier is slow and short range and decides he is public enemy #1 to the detriment of any common sense.

I realise that looks like Rimmer recounting his Risk triumphs!
 
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DeletedUser

SMARTY BABY said:
this is why there needs too be bonus buiding for attacking in defence mode when attackers have a good attacking bonus defending with 0 attack bonus is useless.i had a player with 90% attack bonus and i have a 200% defence but it counts too nothing as when my defending force attack they deal too little damage too make effect
Click to expand...

This was argued to death on another thread... Don't remember that there was a resolution, though it may have been moved to the proposals section. I agree that having no attack bonus for defenders is a bad thing when compared to military GBs...

The only response to the problem of 200% defense and no attack boost vs. 150% attack/defense was the unlimited availability of watchtowers in the easter store. Not an answer, just a response... mostly for those who have spare diamonds.
 

DeletedUser

Ahh, it was even more embarrassing that I had calculated. My BLs did ignore the Grenadier, but took 4 or 5 shots to down each rifleman!
He lost 2.9 riflemen to win the fight.

I think I need to give up thinking there is any hope of repelling his attacks and man up! ;) The game isn't designed for effective defence at the highest level :)
 

DeletedUser

Culurien said:
Ahh, it was even more embarrassing that I had calculated. My BLs did ignore the Grenadier, but took 4 or 5 shots to down each rifleman!
He lost 2.9 riflemen to win the fight.

I think I need to give up thinking there is any hope of repelling his attacks and man up! ;) The game isn't designed for effective defence at the highest level :)
Click to expand...

Ouch, alright nvm then, might as well just stick with Lancers. It seems the atk/def GBs trump everything, but that's probably the way it should be.
 
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