Not a Bug: Aid function allows polivating even when all buildings are already done

[DeletedUser105541]

I know for sure I've sometimes gotten a message saying something like "You cannot aid this player at this time" when attempting to reciprocate aid via the event history. If it wasn't because there was nothing to polivate in their town, why was it???

I have noticed the same, and for me it was because I had previously attacked the player I tried to aid. Since you can't polivate a player you attacked within the last 24 hours, you got this error message instead. Though one can wonder why his "Aid" button wasn't greyed out

 

[DeletedUser15526]

ahh the stones. thanks ddevil

 

[DeletedUser7719]

If i go by my Event list none of frnds ever have any things left to polivate because its been greyed out all the time for everybody in it :confused:...barring a few whom I have either attacked or someone who has joined my friends list recently ... I dont see anybody having highlighted Aid button at all and its been like that since this has been introduced

mrbeef already asked that question in the 1.40 discussion thread where I gave the comforting answer that it is a bug and has already been reported:

Howcome the Aid button is greyed out in my event history for all but those in my n'hood..even though I have not yet returned the favour?

It's a bug that has already been reported

 

[DeletedUser98465]

Okay every one, I have popped in following lots of discussion, and can now offer you some solid feedback where the aid feature is concerned.

We initially did think this was a bug, however following discussion with the LCM and the game designers I can confirm, with certainty, that this is an intended feature. So even though there might not be anything available to motivate or polish, you can still use the aid button and gain the 20 coins.

I would also like to say sorry for the misinformation and any confusion caused over this feature.

Kimba

If there is one thing I've learnt in all my time in IT, is that when bugs become 'features' as intended its generally due to one of several things :cool:

a) The development teams really did entertain an idea that it would be clever to introduce a pointless artifact because they look at the immediate, not holistic view.
b) The development teams had the typical 'oh poop' moment and try to play it down because they know they royally screwed up and don't want to admit it.
c) The development teams are full or moronic half baked members that struggle with basic concepts.
d) Developers are lazy and will only code 'what they need to'

Let me replay my real world experience of a typical app dev. I once had a developer tell me that as part of his coding he saw no reason to remove 1.5 millions transactions that occurred on a weekly basis (which was transitional data so didn't need to be retained) because they were not needed. What he didn't think about was the wider implication of allowing 2-3k files on a daily basis build up over a 5 year contract...That's the mindset of a developer.

Developers also have this strange view that only they know whats best.

Sp actually, no, in all likelihood it isn't 'as intended'

 

[DeletedUser97349]

If there is one thing I've learnt in all my time in IT, is that when bugs become 'features' as intended its generally due to one of several things :cool:

a) The development teams really did entertain an idea that it would be clever to introduce a pointless artifact because they look at the immediate, not holistic view.
b) The development teams had the typical 'oh poop' moment and try to play it down because they know they royally screwed up and don't want to admit it.
c) The development teams are full or moronic half baked members that struggle with basic concepts.
d) Developers are lazy and will only code 'what they need to'

Let me replay my real world experience of a typical app dev. I once had a developer tell me that as part of his coding he saw no reason to remove 1.5 millions transactions that occurred on a weekly basis (which was transitional data so didn't need to be retained) because they were not needed. What he didn't think about was the wider implication of allowing 2-3k files on a daily basis build up over a 5 year contract...That's the mindset of a developer.

Developers also have this strange view that only they know whats best.

Sp actually, no, in all likelihood it isn't 'as intended'

You're mistaken, it was most certainly intended. Nor will such negative posts have any positive outcome, so I wonder what the purpose of them is.

 

[DeletedUser9219]

Intended feature... wow.
A very bad one !
At least show in the event history that an user clicked on your Aid button even if nothing was polivated.
How can you now know who is doing polivation rounds in your guild and who is not ?

Why are not thought out idea's still creeping up in this game.. With an huge willing userbase to test it on.
Always nice to see new features , but without them being worked out they are more an annoyance then an upgrade.

 

[DeletedUser1081]

Blamage, you may want to vote for this idea: http://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/...-to-quot-Aid-quot-Towns-with-Nothing-to-Mo-Po!

 

[ddevil]

There are 2 major issues concerned with the new Aid feature that are giving problems to most of them using the Aid Button .. One of the regular players and forum user Mink has taken the trouble to create those issues into an Idea format so that the game dev's can notice them and solve it to make this feature even better ....Request all those who haven't given their opinion as yet on those 2 issues to please give as soon as possible so that it goes to the dev's quickly and they agree to solve them ....

the issues in idea format are here :

1. Making it impossible to Aid someone if nothing is available to Mot / Pol...

2. Improving Aid Priorities (Giving the very last priority to Decorations when using Aid button)

thank you

regards

ddevil

 

[DeletedUser99588]

You're mistaken, it was most certainly intended.

Starzaan, this is very worrying because from what I can see most players consider it a bug and at the very least an undesired feature. The developers intending it to be this way would suggest they are completely out of synch with their customer base. Ignoring the feedback in beta and then the concerns posted prior to the update in this forum would also suggest that Innogames do not take customer feedback seriously. If they did then I would have expected an explanation why they were choosing to ignore such an outcry.

Double Decker is telling it how he sees it. This is the image that Innogames are providing with the many poor changes they have made to the game this year. It tends to mean the good changes gets lost amongst the poor ones or things like this AID feature shoots them in the foot when really it should have been and still could be one of the best things to happen to the game this year.

If they cannot understand why the animosity is growing it highlights more than ever the need for them to invest in customer relations. However good a job moderators do it is not a substitute for dialogue with the company with clear and detailed explanations why decisions have been made and why customers wishes are being ignored.

 

[DeletedUser97349]

Starzaan, this is very worrying because from what I can see most players consider it a bug and at the very least an undesired feature. The developers intending it to be this way would suggest they are completely out of synch with their customer base. Ignoring the feedback in beta and then the concerns posted prior to the update in this forum would also suggest that Innogames do not take customer feedback seriously. If they did then I would have expected an explanation why they were choosing to ignore such an outcry.

Double Decker is telling it how he sees it. This is the image that Innogames are providing with the many poor changes they have made to the game this year. It tends to mean the good changes gets lost amongst the poor ones or things like this AID feature shoots them in the foot when really it should have been and still could be one of the best things to happen to the game this year.

If they cannot understand why the animosity is growing it highlights more than ever the need for them to invest in customer relations. However good a job moderators do it is not a substitute for dialogue with the company with clear and detailed explanations why decisions have been made and why customers wishes are being ignored.

Thank you for your post Thanatos, I have passed it on.

Further information about this feature of being able to mot/pol when nothing is available: It has been designed this way because it is not possible to make the Aid button in the social bar function in the way necessary to grey out if there is nothing to mot/pol; it would put too great a load on our servers. So it was decided instead to allow it to function and give the 20 coins when there is nothing to polivate.

 

[DeletedUser1081]

Further information about this feature of being able to mot/pol when nothing is available: It has been designed this way because it is not possible to make the Aid button in the social bar function in the way necessary to grey out if there is nothing to mot/pol; it would put too great a load on our servers. So it was decided instead to allow it to function and give the 20 coins when there is nothing to polivate.

Thanks for the greater insight but why pay anything for it? At least the non-aiding aider would know the attempt failed.

Actually my real question is why implement the thing at all, if it can't work in a way that makes sense. They've said they don't want us to stop mo-po'ing the usual way, so why introduce something like this at all?

 

[DeletedUser99588]

Thank you for your post Thanatos, I have passed it on.

Further information about this feature of being able to mot/pol when nothing is available: It has been designed this way because it is not possible to make the Aid button in the social bar function in the way necessary to grey out if there is nothing to mot/pol; it would put too great a load on our servers. So it was decided instead to allow it to function and give the 20 coins when there is nothing to polivate.

Thank you. I can appreciate that particular solution would be a burden on the servers. However would the following be a suitable solution;

Currently when you press the aid button it checks a city and chooses an available structure based on the algorithm. At this point if there isn't anything available the button text could be changed to 'Fail' to show it couldn't polivate anything. That way you would know you had to try again later.

 

[DeletedUser97349]

Thanks for the greater insight but why pay anything for it? At least the non-aiding aider would know the attempt failed.

Actually my real question is why implement the thing at all, if it can't work in a way that makes sense. They've said they don't want us to stop mo-po'ing the usual way, so why introduce something like this at all?

For people with limited time or performance issues, its a great help. It also increases polivation over all, so most players benefit. There are some things which could work more intuitively, I agree with you.

Thank you. I can appreciate that particular solution would be a burden on the servers. However would the following be a suitable solution;

Currently when you press the aid button it checks a city and chooses an available structure based on the algorithm. At this point if there isn't anything available the button text could be changed to 'Fail' to show it couldn't polivate anything. That way you would know you had to try again later.

That could be a solution, I will suggest it - the only issue would be at what point does the text change to allow for another try? I have already suggested including a 'polivate fail' message, which then causes the Aid button to become active again, so you can try again. This was not included originally as it was felt that extra messages were intrusive and interrupt the ease/speed of using the Aid button which was its intended purpose. I have suggested that perhaps the extra click of the message would be preferable to the way it currently operates, as the main benefit of Aid is that you no longer need to load cities, the extra clicking is fairly minor imo.

When I have any further information to offer I'll post an update.

 

[DeletedUser1081]

That could be a solution, I will suggest it - the only issue would be at what point does the text change to allow for another try? I have already suggested including a 'polivate fail' message, which then causes the Aid button to become active again, so you can try again. This was not included originally as it was felt that extra messages were intrusive and interrupt the ease/speed of using the Aid button which was its intended purpose. I have suggested that perhaps the extra click of the message would be preferable to the way it currently operates, as the main benefit of Aid is that you no longer need to load cities, the extra clicking is fairly minor imo.

That sounds like a big improvement over what it's doing now. Thank you.

 

[DeletedUser99588]

the only issue would be at what point does the text change to allow for another try?

The text on the button would retain the word 'fail' until a successful polivation had occurred. The polivator can press the fail button whenever they like and it will recheck the city. Maybe when the 'fail' button is pressed it disappears briefly or changes colour whilst checking if there is anything to polivate just so the polivator can see something is happening.

 

[. ICE .]

Not a bug .Intended ??
Get real
this is awful .

spot on post by chain reader above.
this needs fixing imo.

 

[DeletedUser9219]

Explain me this :

The old Hood buttons would grey out once you attacked, same with polivation.
Server requests will go up with the Aid button since users go faster and more users will do it.

BUT! less users are visiting player cities now... this is reducing server load and a lot of bandwidth ( no need to load whole city data from external player).
More requests , but smaller.

So was the whole point of this update to reduce costs for INNO?

As a webdev.. I find the excuse of server load not really convincing.

 

[DeletedUser98465]

Kudos to Thantos for articulating the points perfectly. This is in essence the crux and why it is a bug despite what others in Inno may see it as to cover themselves.

Whilst my 'negative' viewpoint may not have been seen as beneficial, its relevant because I'm experienced enough to know more about what I'm talking about that the hundreds of developers that have graced my desk with their drivel in the past. Something Inno as yet fails to realise, that their player base is not filled with mindless numb-skulls willing to accept the first thing they are told. My job is built on challenging responses such as those presented.

I wasn't so much bothered about the particular issue as I was with the actual constant repeat of similar events and turning something good into a half baked idea through lack of listening.

Never the less, the point I think has been made several times by the rest of the use community. Bottom line, it needs fixing.

 

[DeletedUser7719]

Explain me this :

The old Hood buttons would grey out once you attacked

That's because it's based off your interaction with the player. Considering if all of the player's buildings are plundered/polished/motivated has nothing to do with this.

, same with polivation.

That's because it is being determined as you visit the city. You currently have no way of knowing this beforehand.

 

[DeletedUser97349]

The text on the button would retain the word 'fail' until a successful polivation had occurred. The polivator can press the fail button whenever they like and it will recheck the city. Maybe when the 'fail' button is pressed it disappears briefly or changes colour whilst checking if there is anything to polivate just so the polivator can see something is happening.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll mention that as an alternative option.

A reminder to everyone else please to remain constructive, there is a line which oughtn't be crossed.