DeletedUser101150
I have already replied to this subject with information I received from above the CM level. Please stop posting the same points repeatedly, thank you.
-
Dear forum reader,
To actively participate in our forum discussions or to start your own threads, in addition to your game account, you need a forum account. You can REGISTER HERE!
Please ensure a translation into English is provided if your post is not in English and to respect your fellow players when posting.
-
We are looking for you! Always wanted to join our Support or Forum Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
Take a look at our recruitment page for more information and how you can apply:
- Status
I have already replied to this subject with information I received from above the CM level. Please stop posting the same points repeatedly, thank you.
DeletedUser99588
Just because you have replied doesn't make your response acceptable. You have asked how things can be improved. Well it seems clear that players would like a means of complaining about the CM team to a higher authority who can be held accountable for any forthcoming decisions about the complaint.
I have seen allegations of corruption made which mysteriously disappeared. Players banned for giving their opinions that come from personal experience within the forum management system.
So far the moderator/CM team interaction in this thread has only highlighted everything that is wrong with how this forum is run and in-game rules are enforced. It is sad we need this thread and even worse that the moderators/CM team that are responding cannot see the damage they are doing with the way they are responding.
If I'm being honest I don't think they are up to the job. All they seem to be able to do in their senior positions is antagonise the customer base.
Zarok Dai I'm really not sure what you are doing here because you have just made things worse. You need to read this thread from the beginning and your responses. You seem to be here just to protect the CM which I don't really understand because the CM team are untouchable with current complaint system.
This thread is pointless if the moderators/CM team involved are going to approach with a dogfight mentality.
I have refrained from providing some of my experiences and what I would suggest as improvements because it would have seemed like I was joining a witch hunt. However, I have been critical for a long time of the ridiculous system of rule enforcement which is basically your guilty unless you can prove your innocence and the fact the CM team are untouchable and therefore are in a position to abuse their power without any recrimination.
Two ex members of the team have voiced such criticism and have now been banned. They are a perfect example of how we the customers cannot truly appeal potential injustices with the current system.
I would ask the current CM team to bring changes in so we have some transparency into what is going on. At this moment it looks to many of us which this thread has only reinforced that the CM team cannot be trusted.
So many responses dodging the initial questions and having to be badgered for answers. It is like an episode of question time. This is not what we want from our moderator/CM team.
I'm personally grateful to some of the moderators who go out of their way to help answer players questions and have provided reputation points when the silly system lets me.
We need moderators and a strong fair CM team that care about the game more than they care about their positions and abide by a transparent set of rules that include a fair means of appeal.
During my time here there has been a large turnover of moderators. Either the recruitment process is poor, the working conditions are poor and/or the management is poor.
Trying to pretend all is well and parachuting in Zarok Dai to deflect criticism is not going to help or solve the problems.
DeletedUser15526
Ive fully restrained myself from entering into this fray, and choose not to get into the gritty side of things.
personally i think previous CM teams made greater inroads with the game community than the current one, no offense intended, ive been here long enough to see 3 generations of teams, the first was dire, then a new team came along and was one of best and most helpfull to date, for shame the individual is gone
all the efforts the said individual made have long gone also.
i do hope the current team as this thread states do begin to change, so far ive not seen any statement or announcements on here of any single thing yet they are going to work on just the same old politicaly correct responses we have come to accept as the norm.
lmao thanotos, question time, so true haha.
excellent post btw, cant give you a thumbs up because i gotta give it to someone else first, sheesh
personally i think previous CM teams made greater inroads with the game community than the current one, no offense intended, ive been here long enough to see 3 generations of teams, the first was dire, then a new team came along and was one of best and most helpfull to date, for shame the individual is gone
all the efforts the said individual made have long gone also.
i do hope the current team as this thread states do begin to change, so far ive not seen any statement or announcements on here of any single thing yet they are going to work on just the same old politicaly correct responses we have come to accept as the norm.
lmao thanotos, question time, so true haha.
excellent post btw, cant give you a thumbs up because i gotta give it to someone else first, sheesh
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
well........... lol the first few pages of this thread are very very revealing and an insightful journey into how things are within the moderators/cm camp. LOL i havent seen a poo fight like that since the great monkey poo fight at london zoo back in '83 
Regards mods/CM's, i can say there are good ones and there are bad ones. Mostly good thoughI myself have bewitnessed and been at the receiving end of negative aspects of the management and corrupt individuals employed within forges management (no names mentioned and no breaches of DPA either I would like to say that although there are defintely some gaps that some bad apples slip through, i think that most of the mods are great people and genuinely want to help make a positive and fun gaming environment for us all to enjoy.. I appreciate the effort and the time that the majority of mods and CM's go to in making our game what it is. To follow the intent of the thread being repurposed from its initial point as it was, i have a couple of ideas that might be useful for both the gamers and the mods/management..
* who watches the watchers? this is a serious point (and always has been when positions of management are concerned) I think that in order for their to be a greater amount of accountability and that inno ensures complaints, acts of rule breaches from staff of varying levels and that good conduct is adheared to from staff is maintained and properly monitored, we need to have more CM's present on the global chats and that creating a thread in the forums wherby they can be easily accessed and are a inclusive part of the game and not the distant mostly unseen figures that they are - this should give some oversight to mods behaviour and regulate that all flesh n blood gamers experiences are treated in accordance with inno directives (addressing the original topic of this thread
* I myself have made complaints against 'staff' in the past and the the process was not pleasant let me tell you that.. Perhaps in the complaint process against a staff member whether its a mod or CM then maybe after creating the initial ticket there could be a conversation type dialog rather than it simply being done via tickets? something like using the whisper function or a chat box.. This would be enormously helpful to the plaintiff in aiding them to describe and convey the situation/events to the person processing the complaint and to include the value of actually conversing with a person rather than mailing a distant 'somebody'. As im sure everyone has experienced in the past at some point, dealing with a situation from an isolated and remote position is not easy and creates feelings of isolation and hoplessness in addition to the original complaint and surrounding feelings (sounds over reactive and out of perspective on the surface, but when you care enough about something to want to start a process of complaint, then i think the emotions and thoughts surrounding and leading to that action bring intensity and sensitivity to the scenario - its something i feel was greatly lacking in my own experiences)
thats it, hope that the ideas are helpful and that the main points i have to make -accessabilty and being visable - are not diluted and unseen in the post cheers
power does not corrupt... weak minds allow power to corrupt them
Regards mods/CM's, i can say there are good ones and there are bad ones. Mostly good though
I myself have bewitnessed and been at the receiving end of negative aspects of the management and corrupt individuals employed within forges management (no names mentioned and no breaches of DPA either I would like to say that although there are defintely some gaps that some bad apples slip through, i think that most of the mods are great people and genuinely want to help make a positive and fun gaming environment for us all to enjoy.. I appreciate the effort and the time that the majority of mods and CM's go to in making our game what it is. To follow the intent of the thread being repurposed from its initial point as it was, i have a couple of ideas that might be useful for both the gamers and the mods/management..* who watches the watchers? this is a serious point (and always has been when positions of management are concerned) I think that in order for their to be a greater amount of accountability and that inno ensures complaints, acts of rule breaches from staff of varying levels and that good conduct is adheared to from staff is maintained and properly monitored, we need to have more CM's present on the global chats and that creating a thread in the forums wherby they can be easily accessed and are a inclusive part of the game and not the distant mostly unseen figures that they are - this should give some oversight to mods behaviour and regulate that all flesh n blood gamers experiences are treated in accordance with inno directives (addressing the original topic of this thread
* I myself have made complaints against 'staff' in the past and the the process was not pleasant let me tell you that.. Perhaps in the complaint process against a staff member whether its a mod or CM then maybe after creating the initial ticket there could be a conversation type dialog rather than it simply being done via tickets? something like using the whisper function or a chat box.. This would be enormously helpful to the plaintiff in aiding them to describe and convey the situation/events to the person processing the complaint and to include the value of actually conversing with a person rather than mailing a distant 'somebody'. As im sure everyone has experienced in the past at some point, dealing with a situation from an isolated and remote position is not easy and creates feelings of isolation and hoplessness in addition to the original complaint and surrounding feelings (sounds over reactive and out of perspective on the surface, but when you care enough about something to want to start a process of complaint, then i think the emotions and thoughts surrounding and leading to that action bring intensity and sensitivity to the scenario - its something i feel was greatly lacking in my own experiences)
thats it, hope that the ideas are helpful and that the main points i have to make -accessabilty and being visable - are not diluted and unseen in the post cheers
power does not corrupt... weak minds allow power to corrupt them
DeletedUser
Thanatos has already made an excellent reply to this. I will only say that your answer displays very well the true disinterest behind this thread. No interest in solutions, only looking to try and score cheap points to make yourselves look like you care what we think when you don't. I'm surprised I haven't been banned, as due to your antagonistic approach, I think I've been just as critical as those that were banned. Maybe they were banned then because they are ex team members and the CM has a grudge against them. More corruption.
DeletedUser16026
Thanathos as much as we want to improve things by taking up all suggestions, some of that are items we cannot change. The company policies are not something that can change just like that. We have provided an alternative, if you have an issue with the actions of a CM or CCM, send your complaint to the other folks on the CM team. We'll ensure that they reach the LCM. Yes, we are a team and we work together, but as I've said before if we do not see eye to eye on something it will be voiced. If I've taken actions that make the whole CM team look bad, it's in Tracey and PX's favor to bring that up for review because otherwise it looks like they too have done a bad job.
All rules still apply to this thread. Providing an opinion is not an issue, violating rules is.
As mentioned Zarok has been brought in to provide a better communication with the BETA and EN teams. There are planned things which will prove this, but as with everything it takes some time and patience.
There is a clear miscommunication here. This thread was started for taking in suggestions on how players feel the support team can improve things, because in other recent threads we did receive some suggestions. But if you look back in this thread, most of it is players wanting answers on specific moderation cases. This is all still confidential in every way and this thread is not an exception, it's not a venue where we can freely provide inside information.
I understand your issue with the 'guilty unless you can prove your innocence' thing, but that is also a company policy and not something that depends on us. What would depend on us is communication and what we can attempt to offer to make a better experience for you. But we will see if we can improve anything on that front, just odds are against us there.
No one has been banned for voicing any type of criticism. There's quite a bit of criticism in this thread from a number of members and they're clearly still posting.
We can try to be more responsive. We can push for being able to provide more information. But the most honest answer is that if you're looking for public discussion of moderation, that is not at all likely to ever happen.
I believe there in lies one of the miscommunication issues. This thread was opened for suggestions on how things can be improved, and there are some such posts, yes, but largely it is players asking for clarification on past/present moderation. It was never the intent to have or answer such questions here because it is not possible for us to do so.
The initial post includes items that have been noted, and currently we're taking in additional suggestions (there are several good ones that came out of this thread). This thread was opened just a few days ago, we want you all to have the chance to provide us with any suggestions or feedback on how things should improve.
The point of this thread is not for anyone to score point, but for folks to say what they currently dislike (or like) so that improvements can be made in that area, if possible.
It's been pointed out a few times now that feedback and criticism are in no way a violation of the rules.
DeletedUser99588
For policy to change there needs to be a desire for it to change. Those in this thread are stating that desire for honesty, transparency and for a means to have a genuine appeal process and not one that is overseen by the same people that made the initial decision. Also, to be able to complain about indiscretions or corruption of the CM team to a higher authority who is accountable for the decisions should there be a need.
Zarok seems to have spent her time here, in the main, defending the CM which has nothing to do with the relations between beta and EN. In fact communication flow between the two servers does not need Zarok to be active in this forum at all. For those that are unaware Zarok and Tracy are good friends. I don’t want to suggest cronyism but it does have that appearance. Byordie is very active in beta and it is a little insulting to say communication between the servers has ever been poor. They only thing that was ever an issue was being able to discuss it.
Some would like to have a CM team that is accountable for their indiscretions. One of the deleted messages from a thread referred to a member of the team being given preferential treatment and moved to a new neighbourhood as they were being plundered. Maybe those involved feel a little vulnerable about such indiscretion and would prefer the status quo to remain where they cannot be made accountable.
You can do something but it would mean caring more about how fairly run and transparent the enforcement of the rules is than your own position. Throughout history weak people have claimed they were just following orders or the rules but when you can clearly see something isn’t right you should do something. So you either like the fact that you and your colleagues are beyond approach and can behave in whatever manner you choose or you do not have the strength to stand up and be counted and demand Innogames change to a fairer system. Those who truly care would not be afraid to lose their position fighting to lead us away from this dictatorship style of forum administration.
Maybe certain people’s criticism is a little more damning and needed to be stopped by those that fear their own indiscretions were coming to light. Not all that were voicing criticism in this thread are still able to do so.
Why? Because you hide behind the rules you all have a hand in generating. For crying out loud take some responsibility and show you are not just a puppet. Or is it just a little too cosy keeping the status quo where indiscretions can be swept under the carpet.
A big improvement would be for the CM team to be accountable for their indiscretions. We as players are made to be accountable why shouldn’t you and the CM? You are running a dictatorship which cannot be held to account. Doesn’t matter how many times you try to deflect the issue and blame Innogames for it you have chosen to be a part of it and by the looks of it one that doesn’t want it to change.
We will see but I'm guessing there will not be a push for any changes that mean the CM team can made accountable for any future or past indiscretions to an Innogames overseer, who is a full time employee and has something to lose should they not operate in a fair manner. Rule enforcement seems to be applicable only to us poor customers of the game.
I almost fell of my chair laughing. Moderators will find any means to remove a post that criticises one of their own. They will claim it was going off topic or some other excuse to pull it. I’ve even had a post removed because I was asking how you would escalate an issue about a CM.
DeletedUser96995
im still puzzled why Starzaan and Lexis have been banned. and Why starzaans name is not crossed out. I have re-read all the posts and didn't see anything which would indicate rule breaking. As everyone here seems to be so good at quoting the messages of others, maybe someone could quote the bannable posts
DeletedUser99588
It was probably the ones that highlighted the infractions of the current CM team. I can't be sure that I read them all though so maybe there was something that warranted it. As your not allowed to discuss such things I guess we will never know.
DeletedUser96995
But yet we are discussing it simply because its a mistery lol.
DeletedUser108072
It appears to me as though they have been banned for daring to break ranks and provide players with real information about the corruption behind the scenes. But do we not deserve to know this, as paying (some of us) customers? If we cannot trust support, how can we invest money in a game where we have absolutely no security that those in charge of that investment can be trusted? When there is no avenue of complaint if we feel that they are not fit to be in charge of that investment?
Baffling treatment of customers.
Baffling treatment of customers.
DeletedUser16026
I do not believe I said there is no desire to do this, only that it's not an easy thing to accomplish. Germany's privacy laws are highly strict and do not allow exposing personal details, so any solution will have to be quite ironed out in order to work in practice without breaking those.
That is a portion of her work you've seen here, but you do not see her work behind the scenes. Communication between the markets has never been 'poor', I and others actively play on beta and provide the rest with info as required. But that does not mean that an improvement cannot be made. We have planned ideas which will show why that's a good step.
We are, but more on this below on another point. Describing a past experience and something that should never happen again, so therefore suggesting that we need to improve in a certain area, is great. There are posts like that and they're still present. Discussing cases publicly with private information is not something we can do, definitely not at present. Instead they should be brought up to us for review. If support was contacted through a ticket but they feel things have not changed or handled properly, one can contact us directly here on the forum.
Grabbing a pitchfork and a torch and heading toward the witch's house is certainly one way to approach things. Speaking up in Town Hall meetings about it and actively pushing for a change is another way to attempt to achieve the same goals. In both cases success is not guaranteed, but with the latter you do not have to carry the burden of the damage you'll do to the town with that fire.
I cannot tell you who has done what or how, but I think I've brought up the rules enough times.
But we are accountable, as Zarok has mentioned, because we're constantly being evaluated and our actions are reviewed by the LCM who is a full time employee. We have also provided you with the means to reach the LCM - contact a different CM team member, we will ensure your complaint reaches them. I understand you do not believe that is a true process but as I've said we cannot make any changes overnight and I would have hoped that an alternative in the meantime shows that we are trying to improve things. If the whole community has mistrust because of the actions of a single person then I agree that those should be brought up for review, even if they're about me. Because this is not and can never be about a single person. It's about two teams, support and players, working well together.
There's a fine line between criticism and a personal attack. One can point out they're not pleasant with a person's work without being offensive. As far as your post goes, if that is all that post included then that seems like something that you should contact the moderator about, or contact someone higher if the moderator did not explain the reason behind it.
As a past team members you will likely remember the privacy rules. You may not see any rule breaches at present, but it does not mean they did not occur, or that we cannot justify our actions with evidence.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser96995
I have spoken to star and he says that having read through his posts as a guest, he cannot recall anything bar what can be seen here. Buts as his ban was for 'no reason' according to the message he received, he cannot be sure for what reason it was put in place
DeletedUser96995
Anyway, why would privacy rules apply here? All the posts, apparently, are here. For anyone to read. So you could just point us out to the bannable post number. As a learning process for everyone else of course. So we know what NOT to say
DeletedUser101150
We will contact him through the support system.
DeletedUser96995
i have not requested to be contacted, perhaps my previous idle observation was misleading - I know exactly why I have been banned, but it is not immediately apparent from any of my posts, deleted or otherwise. I have no wish to have any contact with the person who put the ban in place, so please do not contact me. I have had more than enough discussions with said individual, enough to know that there is no point in any kind of appeal
It's a message from star
It's a message from star
PromethiusTM
Corporal
A Snippet about Me:
I have been involved with many MMORPG one in particular UO (Ultima Online) for those not old enough to remember it I was a Senior Mod, Player and In Game Admin.
As you can see from the amount of Posts <<<< over their somewhere I don’t Post Allot!!
I try not to get too involved with these forums as it is quite honestly a Venting Ground a lot of the Time, Rather than a “community” base of support, information and general help.
This thread in particular caught my attention for many reasons but alas reading every response it seemed to get quite diluted and slightly off topic.
Ok so to the point of my post, what I would like to see “Personally” which does not breach any Privacy or Personal information Laws nor breaches the EU Data Protection Act and should be made available to all for the purposes of the right to complain about anything in regards to Forge of Empires: Inno Games, Staff either Payed or Voluntary.
1. A Full List Of The Voluntary Moderation Team (with their In Game Alias)
2. A Full List Of the Employed Moderation Team (With their In Game Alias)
3. Moderators at Any Level should identify themselves when “participating” In Global Chat
if they are “not participating” then there is no need as they may be “Moderating”
4. A clear and precise complaints procedure for anything including members of staff,
this would be best as a form, and potentially should go directly to Inno Employed Staff.
The above would show a considerable amount of transparency and would give all players a clear knowledge of all the Team Members that they should Respect, Look to for Help, Guidance and Reprimands when necessary.
On another Note I have to say the In Game Support Ticket System I have had dealings with for nearly 3 Years and have almost always (Nothing is 100%) had a positive and speedy response with things being rectified within a reasonable time frame.
Regards
Prom
I have been involved with many MMORPG one in particular UO (Ultima Online) for those not old enough to remember it
I was a Senior Mod, Player and In Game Admin.As you can see from the amount of Posts <<<< over their somewhere I don’t Post Allot!!
I try not to get too involved with these forums as it is quite honestly a Venting Ground a lot of the Time, Rather than a “community” base of support, information and general help.
This thread in particular caught my attention for many reasons but alas reading every response it seemed to get quite diluted and slightly off topic.
Ok so to the point of my post, what I would like to see “Personally” which does not breach any Privacy or Personal information Laws nor breaches the EU Data Protection Act and should be made available to all for the purposes of the right to complain about anything in regards to Forge of Empires: Inno Games, Staff either Payed or Voluntary.
1. A Full List Of The Voluntary Moderation Team (with their In Game Alias)
2. A Full List Of the Employed Moderation Team (With their In Game Alias)
3. Moderators at Any Level should identify themselves when “participating” In Global Chat
if they are “not participating” then there is no need as they may be “Moderating”
4. A clear and precise complaints procedure for anything including members of staff,
this would be best as a form, and potentially should go directly to Inno Employed Staff.
The above would show a considerable amount of transparency and would give all players a clear knowledge of all the Team Members that they should Respect, Look to for Help, Guidance and Reprimands when necessary.
On another Note I have to say the In Game Support Ticket System I have had dealings with for nearly 3 Years and have almost always (Nothing is 100%) had a positive and speedy response with things being rectified within a reasonable time frame.
Regards
Prom
DeletedUser107048
I just read all of the posts cocerning this issue and must say thart i am deeply disappointed that players were banned from the Forum for speaking their opinion of what i consider to be a very serious issue: breach of ethical standards by a Senior Mod and a CM. From my experience a support person must be impartial, willing to help other players and expect no special treatment, nor expect receive any special treatment. Clearly this was not the case, and from my personal experience in this matter, find it reprehensible that it was allowed to happen and that to date, no repercussions have occurred. This type of 'Cover Up", hurts the intergrity of the game and besmirches the reputation of all Support Staff, the majority of whom are hard working, helpful individuals.
This activity has resulted in the loss of at least 2 Mods that i know of,( me being one), and wil result in increased difficulty to recruit and train folks for the position.
Ethics is what you practice when no one is looking; clearly unethical practices also occur when no one is looking. When i was not looking my name was dragged through the mud by these same individuals, as were several of us that spoke out against this debacle of favortism.
This must change; the trust basis that established players once had with the Support team has eroded to a level of apathy and the belief that protecting thier own, no matter how heinous the activity, is more important that a level playing field and FOE integrity.
We deserve to know that this is being dealt with and that the individuals involved are disciplined and perhaps removed from positions of authority.
This activity has resulted in the loss of at least 2 Mods that i know of,( me being one), and wil result in increased difficulty to recruit and train folks for the position.
Ethics is what you practice when no one is looking; clearly unethical practices also occur when no one is looking. When i was not looking my name was dragged through the mud by these same individuals, as were several of us that spoke out against this debacle of favortism.
This must change; the trust basis that established players once had with the Support team has eroded to a level of apathy and the belief that protecting thier own, no matter how heinous the activity, is more important that a level playing field and FOE integrity.
We deserve to know that this is being dealt with and that the individuals involved are disciplined and perhaps removed from positions of authority.
DeletedUser108405
I'm disappointed to have been drawn here for my first post on the forum, having registered on Tuesday in order to look for help and ask advice, but unfortunately was subject to quite a prolonged validation process for some reason.
Would it be possible in future for new players registering on the forum to be informed that they must wait an undesignated amount of time to actually be able to use their account for more than viewing topics? And this being the case, can the entire support team be made aware of it as the first member I contacted for assistance seemed to have no knowledge that there was even a validation process in progress. It seems there's been a breakdown in communication there.
Thank you!
Would it be possible in future for new players registering on the forum to be informed that they must wait an undesignated amount of time to actually be able to use their account for more than viewing topics? And this being the case, can the entire support team be made aware of it as the first member I contacted for assistance seemed to have no knowledge that there was even a validation process in progress. It seems there's been a breakdown in communication there.
Thank you!
DeletedUser6974
"we cannot justify our actions with evidence" now that statement will really add a lot of confidence to the community.
so in other words INNO accepts that this forum can be run like those stories when you are found guilty with no evidence and one day you just disappear like you were never here. After reading through the posts and replies in this thread all i can say is its a wonder this game has survived as long as it has. Based on the replies from CM's it doesnt look like anything is going to change. Players / customers take a back seat.
- Status