Yggdrasil is awesome!

shad23

Emperor
invest every single fp in their CC and count how much and how soon CC will give them returns and all that
i did'nt do any math here but if player that gets only 25 FP loop invests on a few FP GB's instead of all on CC i think he might find a way of getting way more FP's from FP's that come from loop
i don't feel like doing the math but am prity sure am right
 

bradype

Emperor
Last time I calculated the time needed to make Yggdrasil worth in conditions that were very favorable to it. Now I'll make the same calculations in a more realistic fashion.
20*6*25=3000
[yields a month]*[months]*[FPs a yield]=[base FPs]
Invest them in a cape (could be HC). Let's consider 400 FPs a level. Collect the cape.
3000+3000/400/2*30*6=3675
[base FPs]+[average cape extra yield]*[days]=[real FPs]
Here you get the Yggdrasil done. Let's say you built it at 4 FPs (4 months) and got 2 months of 6 FPs average.
3675-2*30*6-6*30-(2*30*6+6*30)*2*30/500/2-450+2*2*30=3313
[real FPs]-[average Yggdrasil FPs]*[time]-[emissary FPs]*[time]-[Average cape yield from settlement FPs]*[time]-[FP rewards]+[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]*[time]=[Real FPs less reward FPs]
Now the Yggdrasil, GRS and emissary start producing. What do they produce really? Knowing that you have to delete SoKs to make room.
8+2+1-2-1=8
[Yggdrasil production]+[GRS production]+[emissary production]-[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]-[GRS SoK footprint]=[real production]
If you complete the settlements your cape only gets one level. That's6 FPs a day less.
8-7+1=2
Time to pay back=3313/2+6*30 days=1836 days=5 years
5 years is a realistic time to make Yggdrasil worth.
 

Xenophon the Prophet 576

Chief Warrant Officer
@bradype I’m unsure why you would replace soks with a Yggdrasil. I didn’t have to replace anything for mine as I still have plenty of expansions left.

Also, people have previously mentioned that it’s not just about fp but attack bonus and goods as well which your calculations have not accounted for.

I’m happy with mine for my main city as I like to maximise what I can get for space. Also, fully upgraded it’s a very pretty to have in your city ☺

For my diamond farms, I do the 25 fp loop (thanks for writing the guide @bradype) as if it’s not a WW or WW shrink kit, I’m not interested.
 

Lemon Friend

Corporal
serious shortcoming in calculations in that there is an assumption that the only fp generating building of any consequence over 5 years will be the yggdrasil tree
it seems reasonable that the egyptian settlement will have a similar building that will be acquired in approximately 6 months
and then another building with the next settlement
it becomes readily clear that someone who completes the settlements will win out over someone who is happy with just 25 fps a few times a week
 

Pink.Buffoon

i did'nt do any math here but if player that gets only 25 FP loop invests on a few FP GB's instead of all on CC i think he might find a way of getting way more FP's from FP's that come from loop
i don't feel like doing the math but am prity sure am right
Probably yes, the assumption in the post I was replying to was that the player doing the loop would invest every single fp from the loop in CC. But even then, the point still stands that most people don't put every single fp they earn into fp-producing GBs.
 

Einrikr

Major
HC o would be much better than cape but I

So you do know that levelling GBs from PME to FE is extremely cheap, don't you?
(Still writing without having had a closer look at your math. I'm simply assuming that it's good, and that I won't disagree with the premises.)

If we're bringing "Arc-math" into it, then a lot will change.

However, some facts will remain, the most relevant one being this: The profits must still be calculated versus the expensive levels of the GBs, not the cheap ones. The only change will be to which levels are cheap, and which are expensive.

One thing that will change with "Arc-math" is that Arc owners can make a lot more FPs, in the same time, by patrolling the neighbourhood and FL with a calculator, than they can by scamming the Viking Settlement. With an active FL, half an hour spent doing calculations and taking notes (for future investments) will often result in hundreds of FPs, in the much more useful form of FP packs. The downside is that it's really boring, but so is endlessly repeating the first five viking quests.

These are, of course, not issues for new players and/or new cities. In the beginning, 25 FPs can be a lot, and make a real difference to the game play.

It remains, though, that you put much too much weight on FPs. While they are central to the game, extremely useful to have, and fun to win, if you focus too tightly on them, you'll end up tiring of the game. As long as you find FPs exciting, great, but you should lift your head enough to at least notice that there's more to the game. Maybe you'll gain an appreciation for Yggrasil's impressive attack bonus. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is time consumption. Once obtained, Yggdrasil provides benefits from the fist level, and only needs attention for a fraction of a second per day. With auto-collect, it needs no dedicated attention at all. There's something to be said for "slow, but steady". Or, if you will, "lazy, but steady". Then there's the goods and medals, of course.

But even then, the point still stands that most people don't put every single fp they earn into fp-producing GBs.
Very true. That would be an extremely boring and limited way of playing the game, wouldn't it? I also suspect that it wouldn't work out very well; though, for precisely that reason, it might be worthwhile, as an experiment.
 

Pink.Buffoon

Last time I calculated the time needed to make Yggdrasil worth in conditions that were very favorable to it. Now I'll make the same calculations in a more realistic fashion.
20*6*25=3000
[yields a month]*[months]*[FPs a yield]=[base FPs]
Invest them in a cape (could be HC). Let's consider 400 FPs a level. Collect the cape.
3000+3000/400/2*30*6=3675
[base FPs]+[average cape extra yield]*[days]=[real FPs]
Here you get the Yggdrasil done. Let's say you built it at 4 FPs (4 months) and got 2 months of 6 FPs average.
3675-2*30*6-6*30-(2*30*6+6*30)*2*30/500/2-450+2*2*30=3313
[real FPs]-[average Yggdrasil FPs]*[time]-[emissary FPs]*[time]-[Average cape yield from settlement FPs]*[time]-[FP rewards]+[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]*[time]=[Real FPs less reward FPs]
Now the Yggdrasil, GRS and emissary start producing. What do they produce really? Knowing that you have to delete SoKs to make room.
8+2+1-2-1=8
[Yggdrasil production]+[GRS production]+[emissary production]-[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]-[GRS SoK footprint]=[real production]
If you complete the settlements your cape only gets one level. That's6 FPs a day less.
8-7+1=2
Time to pay back=3313/2+6*30 days=1836 days=5 years
5 years is a realistic time to make Yggdrasil worth.
Here's another way of looking at that data:

After six months, the player who's done the 25-fp loop is collecting 9 fps more than before (all from CC), whereas the player who got Yggdrasill is collecting 13 fps more (8 from Yggdrasill, 1 from emissary, 1 from Rune Thingie, 3 from CC). In addition, the player who went for Yggdrasill has more cheap levels of CC left than the other one, and so has more potential for growth. So she's only really behind if by "behind" you mean "spent less fps to get a higher fp output."
 

Thomas Covenent

Major-General
There's also the 'where you are in the game' factor a well...
For a player who's already on the latter end of the tech tree, (likely Future era and onwards), there's likely far less incentive to go after the goods & atk% bonuses that Yggy adds.

But especially for anyone in the early game (colonial or earlier), that +10%atk bonus is usually just too sweet to pass up.
Much more so for early game players who don't have a high level Arc yet, and thus, will have a much harder time getting high level combat buildings like Kraken/AO/HC built & growing.
 

Einrikr

Major
For a player who's already on the latter end of the tech tree, (likely Future era and onwards), there's likely far less incentive to go after the goods & atk% bonuses that Yggy adds.
You're right that "where you are in the game" is important. It's not as simple as "early it's like this" and "late it's like that", though. For the very most developed cities, gaining more attack through the GBs is extremely expensive. The next time you see someone with GBs above level 100, send them a sympathetic thought; improving your stats by levelling those GBs is slow going. The Yggdrasil attack bonus will therefore be very welcome. At the same time, there are disproportionately many players gathered in the latest era, simply because they can't move on from there. Their GBs are pouring out era goods that there are just too many sellers and too few buyers for. Trading down is a nightmare. Having buildings that'll produce refined goods from the previous era, or the era before that, is very valuable. Of course, for goods alone, Yggdrasil won't be the very best, but it doesn't have to be, since it's much more than just for goods.
 

Thomas Covenent

Major-General
Yggy's atk bonus though takes a good amount of time to build up.
Usually a player can get a roughly similar or even better atk boost within an event or two in less than half the time vs. leveling Yggy to Lv4+.

Hence why some many later game cities end up filled with things like Pirate Ships, Winner's Plazas, etc...
 

Einrikr

Major
True. Getting Yggdrasil to a high level does require a major effort. It's the non-GB building that's hardest to get, by a good margin.

Depending on the definition of "hard", it may even be argued to be the hardest. After all, with a relaxed attitude and plenty of time, GBs will come along nicely without much dedicated effort; just a few FPs here, and a few there, and, what-do-you-know? After a few years you have a level 80 Arc! Of course, if you want to level it as fast as possible, that's a different matter.
 

Einrikr

Major
Not really. After doing the settlement once or twice it is just a matter of going through the motions
It still takes time, and, while not demanding, the motions are still more complex than "collect FPs, go to swap, donate FPs".

Also, there's something about a ticking clock that tends to affect people. Even if the time is adequate, even if you've decided that it's not important to make the time, it's still there, and still ticking. Nasty things, clocks. They don't bother me, of course. I'm a rock of calm. It's everyone else I'm worried about...
 
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YARNEY

Private
False News

After level 4 you will have is a 9% chance of a 4x collection on each of your good build
There is no guarantee of a single bonus let alone a double 4x collection
Theoretically you could have a 4x bonus on every collection but with only 9% chance its highly unlikely
It's like an adrenaline rush and saves 2 days of producing when one eventually gets a 4x good :-), but it is very rare, at least for me..
 

Gisklerific

Legend
bad news for the 25 FP farmers

today on beta. soon on live
so you need to play much longer to reach the 20 FP reward
because it is now after quest 10 and not 5 anymore
Yay, justification for sticking with it! :D

Edit: Also these changes:
Did some changes in Viking settlements:
-Lowered long construction times so 4 hours is now the longest
-Changed the last quest to require collecting settlement goods and copper coins
-Exchanged counter quest rewards #1 and #2, so now you get goods with the first one, and FPs with the 2nd