Yggdrasil is awesome!

Discussion in 'General Community Discussions' started by weeeben, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. weeeben

    weeeben Brigadier-General

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Yggdrasil is an amazing special building.
    Is there anything else like it?
    the best thing I think is the 10% attack, that is a nice bonus I must say.

    Level 9 Yggdrasil
    10% attack
    8 forge points
    39 medals
    10 goods
    9400 coins
    7800 supplies


    I can't find anything that good, it's so worth doing settlements and you make 30fp & 700 medals each level too, it's just great.
    Oh I forgot a bonus greater runestone to build plus emissaries!

    I know people find it a headache etc but it's not too bad and what great incentives, also it does get kinda easier because you eventually train your eye to work out how best to place buildings and when to delete something to add something else, also by level 4 you will get double 4x bonus, so two buildings can give 4x goods at the same collection, if you do 8 hour sets that's 40 + 40 in one hit, it's just so good once you get through the first few sets, I'm going to keep going as long as I can build Yggdrasil's, i'll fill up my city if I can
     
  2. Richard of shaw

    Richard of shaw Brigadier-General

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017

    You are the awesomest!
     
    SirFrancis likes this.
  3. Xenophon the Prophet 576

    Xenophon the Prophet 576 Warrant Officer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    @weeeben I agree with you that the Yggdrasil is great. But, please someone correct me if I am wrong, it is my understanding that you can only have 1. After the 15th settlement, the reward for completing it is 50fps.

    You can have as many GRS as you like though.
     
  4. jesuismoti

    jesuismoti Corporal

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    You are correct; you can only have 1 Yggdrasil in your city but as many Greater Runestones as yuo want ;)
     
    thelegend88 likes this.
  5. Test Ament

    Test Ament Overlord

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    but there will be more nations
    and each will have a nice building ;)

    if you are lucky then after your 15th settlement the next nations is already released ;)
     
    SirFrancis likes this.
  6. Andrew420

    Andrew420 Chief Warrant Officer

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    False News
    After level 4 you will have is a 9% chance of a 4x collection on each of your good build
    There is no guarantee of a single bonus let alone a double 4x collection
    Theoretically you could have a 4x bonus on every collection but with only 9% chance its highly unlikely
     
    YARNEY likes this.
  7. Lemon Friend

    Lemon Friend Private

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    nothing changes at lvl 4
    each building collect is an independent event
    even from the first settlement it would be possible to get bonuses from two different buildings whether collected at the same time or not
     
  8. Einrikr

    Einrikr Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    It really is awesome. It's the strongest building in the game, with a very clear margin. A great thing indeed, for those of us who enjoy this new quest format. At the same time, it's short of game changing, which means that those who don't like the Viking embassy quest doesn't have to do it. In spite of complaints to the contrary, they've also found a good balance between being perfectly doable without spending diamonds, while making spending just tempting enough that I'm sure revenue is trickling in nicely.

    The game designers have done a great job on this one. I like it, and I don't have any serious complaints. That's the truest compliment any game developer can get from me.
     
    Mikk likes this.
  9. shad23

    shad23 Tsar

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    if you include GB's in your statement i must disagree Arc is best building i'v seen in game
     
  10. Einrikr

    Einrikr Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Yes, I exclude GBs, obviously. Even among the worst GBs, most can be raised to a level where they're superior to any non-GB building. I was referring to reward buildings, though regular and premium buildings can be included.

    I'm not replacing my level 80 Arc anytime soon. Or ever.
     
  11. bradype

    bradype Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    It takes the space of something else... Something else that's getting better every event... Once you've finished paying it back (FPs lost from not getting the 25 FPs and being late on levelling FP GBs), it'll be just good for replacement with a better, common building. But go ahead.
     
  12. Test Ament

    Test Ament Overlord

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    you are absolutely right. let's change it :lol:
     
  13. Andrew420

    Andrew420 Chief Warrant Officer

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    @bradype Its obvious you fall under the " I am addicted to FPs got to get them anyway I can group"
    Have you actually done the math on how many FPs a player would have earned doing all 15 settlements
    I have and you are right that doing the 25 FP loop(yawn) will earn more FPs in that time
    But its not as much as you want everyone to believe
    It takes me 13 days(avg) to complete settlement that's 195 days or at 30 days avg 6.5 months
    In that time you would have earned (I used your sum of 500 a month) 3250 or 16.6 a day
    15 settlements at 13 day average taking into consideration all FP sources in settlement
    I will have earned 1513 FPs or 7.7 FPs a day
    That's only an 8.9 ok I will round up 9 FP difference a day
    I am more than happy to forsake 9 FPs a day for a fully upgraded Y tree and a couple RS
    But you go right ahead and farm your precious 25 FPs
    At the end of 15 settlements I will be able to get 12 a day for nothing more than clicking a couple buildings
    I will be doing Egyptian settlement and you will still be farming(yawn) 25 FPs
     
    weeeben likes this.
  14. shad23

    shad23 Tsar

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    well that depends
    if they place a beter FP loop hole in egyptian setelment we'll do that one instead
     
    Pink.Buffoon likes this.
  15. bradype

    bradype Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    I've done ALL the maths. Here are my calculations, you can review them then comment. I considered 6 months the time needed to finish the 15 settlements.
    20*6*25=3000
    [yields a month]*[months]*[FPs a yield]=[base FPs]
    Invest them in a cape (could be HC). Let's consider 500 FPs a level (that's much). Collect the cape.
    3000+3000/500/2*30*6=3540
    [base FPs]+[average cape extra yield]*[days]=[real FPs]
    Here you get the Yggdrasil done. Let's say you built it at 4 FPs (4 months) and got 2 months of 6 FPs average.
    3540-2*30*6-6*30-(2*30*6+6*30)*2*30/500/2-450+2*2*30=2638
    [real FPs]-[average Yggdrasil FPs]*[time]-[emissary FPs]*[time]-[Average cape yield from settlement FPs]*[time]-[FP rewards]+[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]*[time]=[Real FPs less reward FPs]
    Now the Yggdrasil, GRS and emissary start producing. What do they produce really? Knowing that you have to delete SoKs to make room.
    8+2+1-2-1=8
    [Yggdrasil production]+[GRS production]+[emissary production]-[Yggdrasil SoK footprint]-[GRS SoK footprint]=[real production]
    If you complete the settlements your cape only gets one level. That's 5 FPs a day less.
    8-6+1=3
    Time to pay back=2638/3+6*30 days=1059 days=2,9 years
    Because I've chosen numbers that are in favour of the completion of the settlements. You need 2.9 years without getting anything better than a SoK to put there and in very completion-friendly conditions to make completing the settlements worth. 2.9 years.
    The numbers I chose being very irealistic, 5 years would however be a better estimation. 2.9 years is the very least.
    (Edited to add some things I forgot to take into account. The time to repay was drastically reduced (from 5.1 to 2.9) however it stays very long, long enough for something better to replace SoK as normal city filling).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  16. Einrikr

    Einrikr Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    @bradype
    Thanks for doing the math. Unfortunately I don't have the time to look into it right now.

    However, you're disregarding Yggdrasil's attack bonus and goods production. For fighters, the attack bonus is invaluable. The goods production is better than a goods building; in lower ages because it doesn't require population, in higher ages because it doesn't require unrefined goods.

    Also, just from the cursory read of your math: 500 FP per level isn't a high estimate. It's low. Very low. You can't compare Yggdrasil to investing in the lower levels of the Cape. You have to compare it to the levels you may never get to, because they take forever and are very expensive. After all, we all get the lower levels of the Cape, regardless of Yggdrasil. I have loads of FPs going into all sorts of GBs. So, the FPs in your calculation would be to add that extra level on top of the levels I'm building anyway. That means that we're talking about levels of 2,500 FP to 5,000 FP. At that point the Cape levels take 7 to 14 years to justify the investment.

    Makes 5.1 years seem like a trifle, doesn't it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  17. bradype

    bradype Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Have you heard of 1.9 help?
    EDIT: it's when your high arc buddy puts 1.9 time the reward and makes it much cheaper for you to level, especially in levels between 30 and 70.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  18. Einrikr

    Einrikr Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Heard of it?

    I give 1.9 help.
     
  19. Pink.Buffoon

    Pink.Buffoon Guest

    I'm not completely sure about your calculations. I've also done some maths and the numbers show a bit differently.

    But first, there's two assumptions that I want to challenge:
    - First you assume that you need to tear down SoKs in order to build Yggdrasill. Well, I didn't, I tore down a Spice Trader to build it, so no fp loss here. Somebody could replace a TS for Yggdrasill, and then we'd need to add into the equation that they are getting 3/4 of a SoK in addition to everything else. Since you're assuming one 25-fp loop every 36 hours (which is very, very optimistic for me; on my secondary world I do it once every 48 hours on average), I think it's fair to assume that you build Yggdrasill as soon as possible without tearing down any SoKs.
    -Second you assume that all fps will be added to CC. There's many other places where you can add fps that do not produce extra fps in return, at least not directly (e.g. researching technologies, LoA, Zeus, TA, or buying higher era goods). Again, I think it's fair to do the calculations without including what you'd get if you invested every single fp you get in a CC at an ideal level.

    So I'll start with my own assumptions:
    - It takes 12 days to complete a settlement. 15 settlements take a total of 180 days.
    - You build and level Yggdrasill as soon as possible, without tearing down any fp producing building for that.
    - You replace a SoK for a Rune Stone as soon as you can get it to level 5 (which is after the 9th run or 108 days).

    Now for my calculations.

    From building and levelling Yggdrasill: 780 fps
    Yggdrasill level 1 (1st run): 180-12 = 168 fps
    First emissary (2nd run): 180-24 = 156 fps
    Yggdrasill level 3 (5th run): 180-60 = 120 fps
    Yggdrasill level 4 (6th run): 180-72 = 108 fps
    Yggdrasill level 5 (8th run): 180-96 = 84 fps
    Yggdrasill level 6 (9th run): 180-108 = 72 fps
    Yggdrasill level 7 (10th run): 180-120 = 60 fps
    Yggdrasill level 9 (15th run): 180-180 = 0 fps

    You get to build a Rune Stone level 5 after the 9th run, so that's 72 fps.
    6 runs left
    12 days per run
    RS produces 1 fp more than SoK
    6*12*1=72

    You are still getting 30 fps from every run by completing settlement quests. That's another 450 fps.
    30 fps
    15 runs
    30*15=450

    So you're getting a total of 1,302 fps from completing 15 runs and upgrading Yggdrasill all the way to level 9.
    So the difference between doing the 25-fp loop and getting Yggdrasill for 6 months is 3,000-1,302=1,698 fps, not 3,000. Yggdrasill, the Rune Stone and the ambassador will take another 170 days to make up for the difference, not 5.1 years.

    Obviously, if you assume that both player A (who did the 25-fp loop for 6 months) and player B (who got Yggdrasill) invest every single fp in their CC and count how much and how soon CC will give them returns and all that, player B will only catch up with player A when the level of their CC requires such a humongous investment in fps that levelling it stopped being worth it levels ago. But considering a more mainstream way of spending fps, it'll probably take a lot less than that.

    My conclusion?
    If we only consider fp output, Yggdrasill is not worth the effort that it takes. For me, I'm not even sure it's worth the effort even if we consider all the other things it gives. However, getting it is far from the worst you can do with your time.
     
    Selene the Savior 413 likes this.
  20. weeeben

    weeeben Brigadier-General

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Don't forget Emissaries, straight up you get 1fp a day from your first emissary
     

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