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Why I am leaving the game

potatoskunk

Master Corporal
I am planning to mostly leave the game within a few days. It's been fun and I've met some interesting people, but I just don't have time for it.

The main reason is that the game is a time sink, by Inno's intentional design. Every feature is designed to get you to spend more time in-game. And I get that - they want you to spend time in their game. But some of it is excessive and unnecessary.

The worst example of this is aiding and visiting taverns. You have to click, click, click, mindlessly and repeatedly. I understand spending time on an interesting task, such as rearranging my city. But this isn't an interesting task. It's a mindless boring chore that takes several minutes - and it's a lot worse if you have multiple cities. An Aid All button has been requested repeatedly for years, but Inno has refused to implement it. They could even make it cost 5 diamonds like the Collect All button, but they refuse to do so.

Also, almost every single action you take is followed by a 1-2 second pause before you can do anything else, no matter how simple it is. Aid a friend? Wait a second before you can aid the next one. Fight a battle in GbG? Wait a second before you can fight another. Complete or abort a quest? Wait 1-2 seconds before you can do anything else. This just makes any repeated task (aiding, fighting, etc.) extremely painful. And this is not a problem on my end; I've played on multiple devices and multiple internet connections, including some pretty high-powered laptops, and it's the same on all of them.
I could be wrong, but this appears to me to be an intentional feature. I see a lot of actions that appear to be fully processed immediately; for example, GbG attrition goes up immediately, sectors change hands immediately, and diamond rewards from GbG show up immediately, all indicating that it's an intentional feature rather than waiting for the database to process the action. However, I am still forced to wait 1-2 seconds before doing anything else. I see absolutely no good reason for this pause. Removing it would instantly make all the mindless boring chores such as aiding and fighting much less painful.

I understand that Inno wants us to spend time in-game. But surely they can find ways to accomplish that goal with things other than mindless boring tasks. Eliminate that pause after Every Single Action. Add an Aid All button, and a Visit All Taverns button. And then, if you want us to spend more time in-game, add additional minigames that are optional but that give rewards that are good enough to create an incentive to participate.

The concept of PVP Arena is good (poorly implemented in my opinion, but that's another question, and it could be done better while preserving the basic idea). It's an optional thing, so someone who wants to spend a few minutes per day in-game can skip it. But if you want to spend time there, there are rewards to be gained that can help your city advance. But it's not forced on you, and the rewards are not so great that anyone who decides to sit out is completely crippled.

GbG is similar - and much better implemented than PvP Arena, I think, although there are things that could be improved. If you want to sit out of GbG you can, although you're missing out on some rewards that can potentially be very significant, and some guilds may not want you. But if you want to cut down on the time spend in-game, you can stay out of GbG without harming your city. There are good reasons to want to get involved, but it's not forced on you if you don't have the time.

Eliminate the mindless boring chores, eliminate that ridiculous pause after every single action, and give us more features like GbG and the PvP Arena. That will make the game much more workable for people like me who don't have time to spend hours in game but still like the city building and a bit of competition.

Otherwise, people like me are just going to keep dropping out over time.
 

Burpo

Sergeant
I agree with the annoying aiding and visiting taverns however Inno DID improve the tavern feature by removing the sit-down animation so the devs do listen and consider how to make the game better.
There is a trade-off though.
Making a game requires work and workers should (need to!) be paid for their effort.
Most free-to-play games are actually pay-to-win which is a big turn-off for poor, casual, or certain perfectionist players.
FoE is the best all-round game I have come across so far that balances time vs money so well.
 

potatoskunk

Master Corporal
FoE is pay-to-win to an extent too, but not horribly so. You can play and do well for free if you're not trying to be the #1 in your world.

But I fail to see how requiring us to do the mindless boring chores benefits the devs and brings more money in for them. In fact, if they added a 5 diamond aid all button, they might get a few more people buying diamonds.
 

Paladiac the Pure

Lieutenant Colonel
But I fail to see how requiring us to do the mindless boring chores benefits the devs and brings more money in for them. In fact, if they added a 5 diamond aid all button, they might get a few more people buying diamonds.
That would be ridiculous. People might, maybe, pay 5 diamonds to Aid All, if they had sufficient diamonds stored in stock, but nobody in their right mind would pay money to buy diamonds to Aid All.
 

PeePee Pleb

Lieutenant
That would be ridiculous. People might, maybe, pay 5 diamonds to Aid All, if they had sufficient diamonds stored in stock, but nobody in their right mind would pay money to buy diamonds to Aid All.
Agreed, you would literally spend 35 Diamonds to aid all per week, while you can earn even 10 times as that from one week of GE.
 

Janet Devlin

Private
Why is something I've been pondering over too. My thinking is based more on the assumption that the delay occurs unintentionally. It is the program not a strategy of a marketing department. Regardless of what causes it, why do we aid or do anything which we might consider mindless unless of course we have decided to do so? Are we greedy or can't resist the competitiveness? Has someone told us at some point if you don't use a repetitive game feature you will die a horrible death or something? An aid all automated button is a glorified ignore button? Another solution might be purchase a tesla robot to play the game.:lol:
 

potatoskunk

Master Corporal
I don't consider aiding, as currently implemented, to be an enjoyable or meaningful part of playing the game. If I want to do a mindless repetitive task, I'd rather get paid for it.
Other parts of the game are much more interesting. If that wasn't the case, nobody would play. Nobody plays the game because they love aiding other people so much.

Focus on the parts that bring people in and remove or partially automate some of the mindless, repetitive parts, and you've got a much more interesting game.
 

Xeon of Camelot

Lieutenant
The worst example of this is aiding and visiting taverns. You have to click, click, click, mindlessly and repeatedly.
Totally agree, recently made it worse by increasing your friend's list to 140.
Before you go don't forget to add your vote to the friend & tavern aid automation idea.
I'm staying for the time being but there isn't a day that passes that I don't feel the boring repetitive nature of FOE's mindless clicks.
 

Deleted member 97052

Totally agree, recently made it worse by increasing your friend's list to 140.
Before you go don't forget to add your vote to the friend & tavern aid automation idea.
I'm staying for the time being but there isn't a day that passes that I don't feel the boring repetitive nature of FOE's mindless clicks.
The Friends List has always been 140, originally send 80 recieve 60, the change now means you can send 140, so if managed correctly you should benefit more.
 

Ariana Erosaire

Master Corporal
The boring clicks part has been in the game a long time, it's just gotten more annoying the more stuff they add to the game. I remember when Expedition was added and it was initially like pulling teeth to get the people who were used to ignoring GvG and just collecting their city for 10 minutes a couple of times a day to go into GE and do 48 fights (or later 64) every week. Now we also ask players to do GbG, PvP arena, tavern, check the antiques and recycle all the junk, manage a settlement, and if in space ages, manage a colony. And all of it after the initial setup or first few plays is repetitive and mindless.

The biggest problem is the complete imbalance that was added to the game in order to help new players catch up to people who had played for years. While I note, giving a giant middle finger to those of us who did stick with the game for years as whatever we worked to build for 3-5 years, anyone can have now in about 6-9 months.

By making the game too easy (Free attrition in battlegrounds, thousands of FPS per day, Arcs with thousands of fps, blueprints, medals per day, dozens of attack boost buildings from events and antiques dealer) you made sure that people will be able to remove all the challenge from the game.
  • I can defeat every neighbor, no problem. even 1000% defense is laughable, I might lose 1 troop. Most don't even bother to field a defense.
  • I can click 80 times in GvG and no even lose a troop. 75% defense on an HQ is like nothing.
  • I can click 160 times in GBG and not even gain attrition. siege camps are over-powered.
  • I can click for 64 GE battles on auto and I might lose 1 or 2 troops on level 4. Medals for turns not an issue thanks to Arcs.
  • I can defeat everyone in the PvP arena and on the hardest matchup against mixed fast units with 750% defense, I lose 3 troops. Medals for turns not an issue thanks to Arcs.
What we are missing is any sense of accomplishment from any of these things because it used to require thought, planned moves, strategy, and not auto battles with repetitive clicks. All it burns now is time. In a game you want to pay in time to get back fun. No challenge - no fun.

When you realize you are paying in time and getting back nothing but a sore hand from clicks, the only thing, ONLY THING, keeping a whole bunch of us in the game is the people we met and have played with for years. Without a single human connection I would quit RIGHT NOW - the team aspect is the only thing left for many of us, and even that is weak.

Innogames should have listened about making team play in GvG and GbG more balanced and more interesting a year ago, or more. It may already be too late. GvG is still the biggest draw (and is 100% abandoned by developers) for people who like to control their own destiny with picking where and when and who to attack, instead of being put in a cage and forced to fight or farm in battlegrounds against unequal, unwanted, or repetitive opponents. 5 people have quit my guild because of the repetitive and boring nature of GBG with siege camps and farming: no challenge - no fun. Even if you try to ignore that GBG exists, its still pretty gross to watch.

I think we're supposed to quit, in fact, that's Innogames' strategy, rush players through for a couple of years, get their money, move on to more new players. Long term playability and retention is not a consideration. Such a shame. This was a good game.
 
5 people have quit my guild because of the repetitive and boring nature of GBG with siege camps and farming: no challenge - no fun. Even if you try to ignore that GBG exists, its still pretty gross to watch.
Don't use the Siege Camps - It's more challenging.
Come to Jungle Warriors in World A ► there is No Daily Feeding of Siege Camps here.
You'll have to feed yourself with Battles and increasing attrition! Very difficult; very challenging!
 
  • I can defeat every neighbor, no problem. even 1000% defense is laughable, I might lose 1 troop. Most don't even bother to field a defense.
  • I can click 80 times in GvG and no even lose a troop. 75% defense on an HQ is like nothing.
  • I can click 160 times in GBG and not even gain attrition. siege camps are over-powered.
  • I can click for 64 GE battles on auto and I might lose 1 or 2 troops on level 4. Medals for turns not an issue thanks to Arcs.
  • I can defeat everyone in the PvP arena and on the hardest matchup against mixed fast units with 750% defense, I lose 3 troops. Medals for turns not an issue thanks to Arcs.
I've been playing video games since the 80s, when we used to play until we "beat the game" and then simply moved on to another game. [Note: It's meant to be that way... that's why there are 1000s of video games, and not just a few big ones that go on forever!]

Looking at your stats (great humble-brag by the way), it's clear you have finally "beat the game." I would recommend to just move on to another world or another, similar, strategy game. For many FoE players who haven't got the stats you've posted, the game is still challenging.
 

potatoskunk

Master Corporal
Don't use the Siege Camps - It's more challenging.
Come to Jungle Warriors in World A ► there is No Daily Feeding of Siege Camps here.
You'll have to feed yourself with Battles and increasing attrition! Very difficult; very challenging!
But then you're voluntarily placing yourself at a disadvantage. If the extra fun balances that out, great, but you shouldn't have to voluntarily handicap yourself to have fun.
 

Ariana Erosaire

Master Corporal
Looking at your stats (great humble-brag by the way), it's clear you have finally "beat the game." I would recommend to just move on to another world or another, similar, strategy game. For many FoE players who haven't got the stats you've posted, the game is still challenging.
That's true BUT --- this used to be a sustainable game, meant for strategy. Until the changes released in about the last 1.5 years (Antiques and Battlegrounds and recurring fight quests in SAAB/Venus) put so much FPS, rank points, and attack boost into the game, that it removed all meaning. They replaced strategy and long term appeal with click farming: lots of things to click, none of it special or strategic.
  • That special event building you got 2 years ago? big deal, want 10 of them? hang out in the dealer all day
  • want 100,000 fights? no problem, loop fight quests in SAAB/Venus or get that in GBG with a few siege camps. Rankings are a joke :(
  • FPS are so meaningless that shrines of knowledge are a waste of space, but they still sell for the highest value in the antique dealer - LOL
Anyway, before they threw balance out the window, people played for 6, 7, 8 years, and there was always something to strive for that kept people engaged long term.

Another guild founder and friend of mine who had played since 2014 quit today. Case in point.
 

Emberguard

Legend
Another guild founder and friend of mine who had played since 2014 quit today. Case in point.
Yeah. I see two things at play here.

First being the balance of resources being overpowered for the environment it's being used in due to the ability to produce unlimited resources on something that's not going to scale indefinitely (because the resources are being applied outside of GBG). GBG output when you have a reliable Siege Camp setup is effectively unlimited FPs in more or less the same way that Recurring Quests are unlimited Goods

Second thing is the amount of time on the game. People who spent years on the game weren't necessarily on it all day, every day unless they were trying out different strategies on multiple worlds. If you had been coming on the entire day it probably meant you were checking sniping opportunities. A player that spends a lot of time on GBG is probably not only going to "beat the game" in a shorter time span, but they're probably going to get bored with it much quicker then if they were only logging in a handful of times a day

Had Guild Battlegrounds not been so reward focused, or if the rewards had not been focused on goods / FPs at all (perhaps only providing Statue of Honor fragments?) then we'd likely have a different outcome from what we have today. Whether that'd be better or worse who knows.
 

Emberguard

Legend
Had Guild Battlegrounds not been so reward focused, or if the rewards had not been focused on goods / FPs at all (perhaps only providing Statue of Honor fragments?) then we'd likely have a different outcome from what we have today. Whether that'd be better or worse who knows.
Alternatively they could have introduced a prize system where the resources gained can only be utilised within GBG, and have GBG exclusive Great Buildings that only level up with GBG Forge Points that can't be used on anything else
 

klods hans

Monarch
Alternatively they could have introduced a prize system where the resources gained can only be utilised within GBG, and have GBG exclusive Great Buildings that only level up with GBG Forge Points that can't be used on anything else
If GBG is a closed system with a special GBG currency (like the settlements) and with rewards that can only be used within GBG (to pay for buildings e.g.), then it will probably not be attractive to very many players. Then it will only be for competition and ranking points (like GvG). To motivate players to participate in GBG, there must be some kind of useful rewards that can be used in the main game.