Swap sucks, then why (when) do (should) you use it?

[Haydis the Fair]

This write-up is going to be denser than my Swap vs. 1.9 write-up. And like many pros who hate Swap with a passion, I'm expecting some heated arguments here. But I'd welcome debate for this much talked about issue. Again, I'm writing this to supplement my Curated and Simplified Guides for FoE by the Ages. Also, this is a sequel to my first write-up of To Swap, or to 1.9, that is the question ... The reason, I create another article is to isolate the upcoming university 1st to 3rd-year Calculus (depending on which major you were in) and controversy to just one tread.

If you don't want to endure all of the ridiculous maths, here are the summaries:

1) Moderate: There are many potential pitfalls by using Swap channels; almost all of them are rooted in human greed. Suppose you are in a guild full of trustworthy players that actively participate in Swaps. Virtually all of these pitfalls can be avoided. But this is a very rare situation, believe it or not. You'd be fortunate to end up in such a guild, so please do your best not to be the bad guy. If not careful, a poorly monitored Swap system could break up a guild.

2) Moderate: If you don't have a healthy amount of FP in packs and daily harvests. Or you are in a guild full of croaks or not so smart players, STICK with 1.9 channels ONLY! Or (recruitment advertisement warning!!) move to Odhrorvar World on the English server's Freedom Fighter Guild. Where I actively participate in Swaps for my GBs' lower positions when leveling my GBs. Because I can trust my fellow guildies and this is my attempt to impart my understanding when and how to not to use Swaps so one can avoid pitfalls that are caused by neighborhood Snipers.

3) Advanced: DO NOT swap your P1-2 in between level 30 - 60! They have an infinite return on 1.9 channel!!!! I can not stress this enough. It'd be the dumbest thing ever! Because infinite is always higher than even 10x the Return!

4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back.

5) Advanced: If you have a healthy amount of FP banked (in FP packs) or daily harvests (200-400 and above a day), if and only if you are in a guild full of honest and smart players that participate in Swap, most of you could reap ridiculous amount FP return from each others' leveling GBs. They'd be coming from continuing returns from locking positions on each others' GBs over and over again (If you understand Infinite Geometric Series, you can skip the maths). And I'm talking about potentially 3-9 times more than ( !!!this comparison only applies to the lower positions!!!) filling your lower positions using 1.9 (this is where the controversy and maths come in) if you are lucky but still honest about it.

6) Black Magic: Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (add X # of FP specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "add more FP" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)

1) The evils of Swap channels!
I'm hesitant to talk in detail on how to game the Swap systems in a guild. So I'd just talk about them at a very high level.

• Overswapping by your fellow guildies to bump you off your targeted positions: As none of the positions are secured on Swap at the beginning, a dishonest guildie can swoop in and over Swap to overtake your targeted position.
• Private Swap AFTER public swaps: Some dishonest guildies would have a deal to private Swap AFTER it has been public swapped through the guild channels. This is to entice other guildies with higher positions only to have your private swap partner overtake them afterward. It's ok if you have a private swap partner, HOWEVER, only do so before you put them through the public swap channels. So at least your fellow guildies know what positions for which they are actually competing.
• Swap padding and snipper(s) invitation: Most of the time, this is done by newbie players that don't understand how sniping works. But I've seen this done intentionally! Most of the time, they are done by both dumb and dishonest players. I will kick these players both for their lack of integrity and intelligence.

2) When you are in a bad guild, then Swap truly sucks! Because of the three pitfalls I just mentioned in section 1), if you found yourself in such situations and no guild officer is there to help you monitor and regulate these dishonest players? Move! Preferably, move to Odhrorvar World on the English server's Freedom Fighter Guild. Where I actively participate in Swaps for my GBs' lower positions when leveling my GBs. Because I can trust my fellow guildies and this is my attempt to impart my understanding when and how to not to use Swaps so one can avoid pitfalls that are caused by neighborhood Snipers.

3) Levels and Positions you should never swap:
I want to go over this topic before I proceed to the core of my analysis down below. In between level 30 - level 60, for most of the GBs, you should always use 1.9 channel to fill your P1 and 2, sometime even P3. Because they are FREE!!!! Meaning those positions in those levels require zero self-contribution and your fellow guildies could securing these positions directly by putting in required 1.9 FPs. That is an infinite return in FPs. And your fellow guildies are still compensated with a 190% return! No scenario in Swap channels this could happen in reality. So for the love of all things that are sacred to you, DO NOT swap these positions!

4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs dolled out to secure positions won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back. Now how high this chance and how consistent this chance could be would determine how successfully your Swapping would go when comparing to using 1.9 channel to level your GBs exclusively.

5) When and why swaps would work better than 1.9 channel?
Here are the pre-conditions for Swapping no to suck:

1. Again, you are in an active guild full of honest players that regularly participate in Swap channels. So you don't end up waiting for swaps or getting screwed by dishonest players.
2. Swap after using 1.9 channels to fill your higher positions with very high returns (again, DO NOT SWAP during level 30-60 for any GBs' P1-3). This is you only way to counter the Diminishing (marginal) Return with the lower positions.
3. You should have a healthy amount of FPs banked or daily harvest. This would allow you to jokey for positions in the swap channels more competitively.
4. You need to play often to allow yourself to lock those positions honestly. Instead of over-swapping!

Once you fulfilled all four pre-conditions, your swapping transaction with your lower GB positions would work beautifully. Using the CC 15->16 sample in the following article

To Swap, or to 1.9, that is the question ...

The 1.9 could only get you a meager 51% return on filling your P4. if you stopped 1.9 after P3 and switched to using swaps. Here's what could happen, if and only if you full fill the aforementioned 4 pre-conditions:

And let's say on average, you could secure a 50% return from a swap each time you do it. Meaning you could get 50% FP coming back to you after you secure a position on the other player's GB.

1. Your first swap would get your 50% return using (37+19)/2 = 56/2 = 28
2. Using the 28 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 28/2 = 14
3. Using the 14 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 14/2 = 7
4. Using the 7 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 7/2 = 3
5. Using the 3 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 3/2 = 1

So after 5 swaps, you ended up with 28+14+7+3+1 = 53 FPs in total. That is approximately 100% return in FP after five rounds. Versus, the 51% return using 1.9 to fill you P4. You've basically doubled your Return. Notice here I don't count your initial 56 swap placement as your gain. This is to make sure the fairness of our comparison to the P4 using 1.9.

Of course, my average is about 75% in Return as a more advanced player. Guess what, if we do the same maths with 75% instead of 50% of swapping return ratio:

1. Your first swap would get your 75% return using (37+19)x75% = 56x75% = 42
2. Using the 42 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 42x75% = 31
3. Using the 31 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 31x75% = 23
4. Using the 23 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 23x75% = 17
5. Using the 17 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 17x75% = 12
6. Using the 12 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 12x75% = 9
7. Using the 9 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 9x75% = 6
8. Using the 6 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 6x75% = 4
9. Using the 4 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 4x75% = 3
10. Using the 3 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 3x75% = 2
11. Using the 1 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 2x75% = 1

So after 11 swaps, you are looking at 42+31+23+17+12+9+6+4+3+2+1 = 150. This is roughly 300% the Return. Notice here I don't count your initial 56 swap placement as your gain. This is to make sure the fairness of our comparison to the P4 using 1.9.

Now, herewith more head-splitting maths, this is actually an Infinite Geometric Series. It can be "very easily" solved by the following steps.

r = Ratio of Return you can expect for your honest swapping guild channels (say 50% or 75%)
a = your initial FP put into the Swapping system (56 fps in our example)
n = how many times until your Return is down to 0 (or 1 in our case).

Total Return of FPs using a honest Swap system = a + ar + ar^2 + ... + ar^(n-1)

And with maths notations, we can express it as follows:

Here the n or the number of times you could keep on swapping could go to infinite, so it can be expressed as

Meaning we can solve your total Return in Swapping by plug in the number for "a" and your ratio for "r". This way, 50% average return rate every time you swap would get you 2, or a total 200% FP gain eventually (minus your initial 100% swap gain, you are looking at an overage FP returns of 100%). 75% would get you 4 or (400%-100%) = 300% in total FP return after all of the rounds of swaps. So guess what, if you can get 90% via your Swap consistently? You will end up with 10 or 1000% - 100% = 900% in total return ...

But all of these require you to full fill the four pre-conditions. And again, don't swap level 30-60s P1 or P2 as 1.9 channel gives you infinite return ratio!

6) Now, some of you might ask is there a way to make these geometric returns even higher. Believe it or not, the answer is yes.
Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (the one asks you to "spend X # of FPs" specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "spend X # of FPs" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again for higher swaps). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)

 

[Trambambaj]

I don't understand why you count the value someone places back in your GB as your return. It doesn't go back to your inventory it is just invested so you can actively reinvest the amounts you get as inventory return. Only inventory return can take part in the base for the next investment.
For CC 15->16 1021 fps it requires 460 fps self investment for total leveling in 1.9 thread so if you level it by swapping( you invest 1021 fps in someone else GBs and your inventory return is lower than 1021-460=561) then you have effectively paid extra fps to this level. In the extreme version scenario you could just add all fps to you CC yourself( no inventory return from swap)

 

[Haydis the Fair]

I don't understand why you count the value someone places back in your GB as your return. It doesn't go back to your inventory it is just invested so you can actively reinvest the amounts you get as inventory return. Only inventory return can take part in the base for the next investment.
For CC 15->16 1021 fps it requires 460 fps self investment for total leveling in 1.9 thread so if you level it by swapping( you invest 1021 fps in someone else GBs and your inventory return is lower than 1021-460=561) then you have effectively paid extra fps to this level. In the extreme version scenario you could just add all fps to you CC yourself( no inventory return from swap)

Good question, thank you for noticing. I hope I understood your question correctly. I actually don't count it in my Swap return analysis. That's why in Section 6)'s initial two samples, I only sum up the returned FP in packs resulted from each round of swap and purposefully didn't count the initial Swap placement of 56 (50% sample starts at 28, and 75%, at 42).

And during the calculus portion, I had to subtract 100% out of each Swap Infinite Geometric Series summation to discount the initial Swap placement out. Otherwise, the comparison to 1.9 wouldn't be fair. As the series always count the initial term "a" as "a*r^0" So the equation can be transformed easily. If you notice, the k underneath the Sigma symbol starts at 0.

While k had to start at 0 to make the transformation possible, I had to subtract it out of its result afterward (-100%).

Also, I'm not advocating to level everything via Swap exclusively. I'm proposing to using 1.9 for your GB's higher positions (where the return could be as high as infinity), But use an honest and active swapping system to fill your lower positions where the returns are sub 100%.

 

[Trambambaj]

I assumed that you continue with that 4th CC spot but it seems otherwise because from what you say your return is 50% in the first example. To secure this certain spot it would require 29 fps investment giving a return of 19fps(r=19/29). If you continue with this ratio for 7 more times 19 fps return will work and give total of ~52fps.

a=29
r=19/29
29 fps of initial inversment subtracted.
Now I think I got your point but it may be hard to establish this kind of swap as it is not a rounded value and at least swaps that I saw were 5, 10, 20 etc.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

I do not understand what you are saying but (by chance) I watched a Youtube video today and feel it might be somehow related:

There are three types of income: wages (honest pay for honest work); capital-gain (use money to gain money); and cash flow.

Many people have already learned about the difference between the former two, but it goes deeper. That is, with cash flow comes passive income, for which you never pay taxes!

Your article appears to be all about math, but it is nothing about math. It is all about money (forge points)! Basically, "three green houses, one red hotel", "three green houses, one red hotel", ... and Repeat! -- You are not playing FoE. In the essence you are playing monopoly!

Have you also considered "always use your credit card to build more credit" and "never use your debit card"? I don't know exactly what it means, or how that principle would apply here; but maybe, it has something to do with "let's not talk about my FP production (wages), nor my capital gain (investment from inventory); let's talk instead about the future rewards on my GB spots -- what will be mine if the liquidity, a.k.a. the flow, a.k.a. the swapping keeps going on and on...

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

I do not understand what you are saying but (by chance) I watched a Youtube video today and feel it might be somehow related:

There are three types of income: wages (honest pay for honest work); capital-gain (use money to gain money); and cash flow.

Many people have already learned about the difference between the former two, but it goes deeper. That is, with cash flow comes passive income, for which you never pay taxes!

Your article appears to be all about math, but it is nothing about math. It is all about money (forge points)! Basically, "three green houses, one red hotel", "three green houses, one red hotel", ... and Repeat! -- You are not playing FoE. In the essence you are playing monopoly!

Have you also considered "always use your credit card to build more credit" and "never use your debit card"? I don't know exactly what it means, or how that principle would apply here; but maybe, it has something to do with "let's not talk about my FP production (wages), nor my capital gain (investment from inventory); let's talk instead about the future rewards on my GB spots -- what will be mine if the liquidity, a.k.a. the flow, a.k.a. the swapping keeps going on and on...

OK that above reply is not a FAIR argument. It is a mean, malicious attack. (I also listened to a Spotify program about Monopoly which says that somehow, in the sure way to win, the final step is to go to prison, in other words, lock yourself up...)

Now a fair argument, the flaw or fault in your logic / reasoning / inference is: what if everybody else does exactly the same as you do? That is, they all use x1.9 thread for valuable spots, meaning 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd. And then they swap for 4th and 5th. In that case, you cannot gain "an average" of 50% return. Because, on "equal footing" against x1.9, you need to first secure the swapping partner's 4th and 5th, with the same cost as if securing, with no return, your own 4th and 5th for eligibility in x1.9.

 

[klods hans]

Rather lost on a lot of the math.
For instance, things like

are completely Greek gibberish to me. It's like looking at a brick wall and trying to make sense of all the cracks and patterns.

I agree though. I think.
In short:
1.9 - good
Swap - bad
(generally)

 

[Trambambaj]

Now a fair argument, the flaw or fault in your logic / reasoning / inference is: what if everybody else does exactly the same as you do? That is, they all use x1.9 thread for valuable spots, meaning 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd. And then they swap for 4th and 5th. In that case, you cannot gain "an average" of 50% return. Because, on "equal footing" against x1.9, you need to first secure the swapping partner's 4th and 5th, with the same cost as if securing your own 4th and 5th for eligibility in x1.9.

If you take 2 CCs 15->16 so both owners take their 4rds for 29 fps achieving 19/29 return ratio this is when it apllies in theory as the return ratio doesn't matter as the key is return value which is the same as in the 1.9. You pay x less to your GB to level but also pay the same x more to the the swapped GB.
I don't think the return value can be used as the base for calculation of the next investment as you would have the same value in the 1.9.
My conclusion is that the best result you can have is the same value returned from swap as the value of all spots from a GB summed up with 1.9 ratio.
If your return value from swap is higher than all spots with 1.9 ratio summed up it means someone got less return than he would achieve in 1.9 thread. This is even more messed up you if you consider different GBs on different levels that are posted to swap threads.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

I'm following my own "train of thought" and gratually approaching yours. @Haydis the Fair If I abruptly jump into your "train of thought" and wear your shoes, I would not be able to think clearly because the thoughts would be foreign and repellent to mine.

As our trains of thoughts gets nearer and nearer to one another, however, I think we can merge, and simplify the subject as follows:

Is it true, that, after the golden spots, i.e. the 1st/2nd/3rd spots are done in x1.9 thread, the good old superb fantastic x1.9 degrades to the point of as bad as solo-leveling?

Or in the way how @klods hans put it, in short: 1.9 -- good; swap -- medium; solo-leveling entirely -- bad. (hereinafter the preferentiality order).

The preferentiality order applies to all 5 reward spots on a GB in the same way, and there is no differentiation between 1st/2nd/3rd spots on the one hand and 4th/5th spots on the other hand.

 

[Trambambaj]

The case is that the return ratio artificialy changes when the value stays the same(the best scenario for both parties involved). So the final result is the same for 1.9 and swap in these cases. Only ratios have changed and you can apply this math when in 1.9 you can't because you will achieve always 0 divided by 0 or 1 divided by 0 under the brackets.
This is my understanding and reinvestment of returned value it very artificial thus using compound interest is not really useful.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

If you take 2 CCs 15->16 so both owners take their 4rds for 29 fps achieving 19/29 return ratio this is when it apllies in theory as the return ratio doesn't matter as the key is return value which is the same as in the 1.9. You pay x less to your GB to level but also pay the same x more to the the swapped GB.
I don't think the return value can be used as the base for calculation of the next investment as you would have the same value in the 1.9.
My conclusion is that the best result you can have is the same value returned from swap as the value of all spots from a GB summed up with 1.9 ratio.
If your return value from swap is higher than all spots with 1.9 ratio summed up it means someone got less return than he would achieve in 1.9 thread. This is even more messed up you if you consider different GBs on different levels that are posted to swap threads.

I am also approaching to some point similar to this item-by-item comparison / projection / mapping between the two planes or systems (1.9 and swapping) and realize @The fair omitted something. That is, in x1.9, one does not only receive donations, one also donates. Those donated amounts return 100%, which is different from the securing cost (with a return of 0%, zero, nothing, nil...) -- Have this in mind, and now redo the comparison. Result: They are the same. The x1.9 thread and an ideal perfect swapping thread are all the same.

 

[Trambambaj]

I am also approaching to some point similar to this item-by-item comparison / projection / mapping between the two planes or systems (1.9 and swapping) and realize @The fair omitted something. That is, in x1.9, one does not only receive donations, one also donates. Those donated amounts return 100%, which is different from the securing cost (with a return of 0%, zero, nothing, nil...) -- Have this in mind, and now redo the comparison. Result: They are the same. The x1.9 thread and an ideal perfect swapping thread are all the same.

The difference is that 1.9 exists but ideal swap thread is rather like a unicorn.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

I had to subtract 100% out of each Swap Infinite Geometric Series summation to discount the initial Swap placement out.

There is the problem. It is wrong to subtract 100% from the summation of each Series.
You should subtract 100% from each component of the series.

 

[Haydis the Fair]

I assumed that you continue with that 4th CC spot but it seems otherwise because from what you say your return is 50% in the first example. To secure this certain spot it would require 29 fps investment giving a return of 19fps(r=19/29). If you continue with this ratio for 7 more times 19 fps return will work and give total of ~52fps. View attachment 21600
a=29
r=19/29
29 fps of initial inversment subtracted.
Now I think I got your point but it may be hard to establish this kind of swap as it is not a rounded value and at least swaps that I saw were 5, 10, 20 etc.

Yes, 50% or 75% of the "average" return from each round of swap is an over-simplification. I was trying to avoid further complicated analytic model (you could establish a rate table to reflect your rounds truthfully). I'm trying my best to reining my instinct to go further into it. I just don't think any further modeling would yield much greater insight. .

 

[Emberguard]

That is, they all use x1.9 thread for valuable spots, meaning 1st and 2nd, or 1st, 2nd and 3rd. And then they swap for 4th and 5th. In that case, you cannot gain "an average" of 50% return. Because, on "equal footing" against x1.9, you need to first secure the swapping partner's 4th and 5th, with the same cost as if securing, with no return, your own 4th and 5th for eligibility in x1.9.

That depends entirely on how much is remaining in the GB for 4th and 5th to take up and how many swaps the owner puts that GB up for to fill those spots.

It's far more likely to be just 4th rather then 4th and 5th though. Bronze Age would need to be around lvl 40 for 5th to have a FP value while Space Age will be around Lvl 18

 

[Haydis the Fair]

Rather lost on a lot of the math.
For instance, things like

is completely Greek gibberish to me. It's like looking at a brick wall and trying to make sense of all the cracks and patterns.

I agree though. I think.
In short:
1.9 - good
Swap - bad
(generally)

1.9 is definitely good and safer, I actually am in a guild without the Swap threads on A world right now (Ares). And you are right, an ideal Swap system is a unicorn. That's why I love my guild on O world (Freedom Fighters) and would do my best to keep everyone honest.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

The difference is that 1.9 exists but ideal swap thread is rather like a unicorn.

Now we are introducing additional factors, and broadening the pre-configured scope of the research topic.
There are still other factors such as convenience, because in swapping thread, you post your GB and contribute the required amount to the previous GB and you are done. Mission accomplished. In x1.9, however, you post your GB, and the mission is not complete. You do not know when, or if ever, your guildie will get online and fulfill your request. You have to wait for an unpredictable period of time before you can tick an item on the to do list done, and harvest a sense of accomplishment.

 

[Zeratul 2.0]

That depends entirely on how much is remaining in the GB for 4th and 5th to take up and how many swaps the owner puts that GB up for to fill those spots.

It's far more likely to be just 4th rather then 4th and 5th though. Bronze Age would need to be around lvl 40 for 5th to have a FP value while Space Age will be around Lvl 18

Same. You are introducing new factors and widening the pre-defined scope. Not fair.
People are having a knife fight and you say "but what about the guns!"

Sorry that is not the case. I thought you said, "Bronze Age players do not have an Arc" and you as a for example Space Age player swap with them, you earn more.

But still, I did not misread very far. "How many swaps the owner puts" means multiple chances of reward, winning rewards on multiple GBs through multiple swaps, instead of just one single GB, and one single swapping move. If you win multiple spots with the amount you otherwise used for self-securing, yes, it means more return. But it also means someone else will be bumped to no-reward positions. 6th onward (or 5th onward for GBs with only 4 spots in total). And you are equally likely to be the one on the less fortunate end, the one being bumped, the bumpee. In fact, you are even more likely to be bumped down, when you split your input to multiple GBs, than when you concentrate on one GB.

 

[Haydis the Fair]

Now we are introducing additional factors, and broadening the pre-configured scope of the research topic.
There are still other factors such as convenience, because in swapping thread, you post your GB and contribute the required amount to the previous GB and you are done. Mission accomplished. In x1.9, however, you post your GB, and the mission is not complete. You do not know when, or if ever, your guildie will get online and fulfill your request. You have to wait for an unpredictable period of time before you can tick an item on the to do list done, and harvest a sense of accomplishment.

Thank, Bewildered Zeratul for this note, I'll actually cover it in my general guide eventually (Curated and Simplified Guides for FoE by the Ages). We can always measure the efficiency of your land usage with FP/Square (how many daily FP harvests/# land the building is taking up). But other than FP yields of 1.9 vs swaps, we should also look at the efficiency of the swap system vs. the 1.9 system. They should be measured against the convenience factor or the time. How quickly a 1.9 position would be filled vs a swap.

I think this is again a guild by guild comparison. In O world, I've never moved to any other higher ranking guilds in the top 10s (Freedom Fighters hovers in the teens usually). But I've got a lot of friends that tried most of the top 10s, and unequivocally, while they are much better at GBG. None of them could fill the 1.9 spots or swap positions as fast as Freedom Fighters. I think this is partially because FF is guild for growing FoE players mostly. While we are active in the end game GBG (you really need to have a high Traz and most of the matured fighting GBs to sustain thousands of fights per player to prevail in the Diamond League), that is not yet our forte yet.

 

[klods hans]

When I take swaps, I mostly do it to help guild mates with their GB's; not so much to gain a profit from it. I'd never over-swap a guild mate to get a better reward spot in a guild GB (in'guild sniping). Most of the time I only use 1.9 though. For fp profit I snipe the hood.