Deleted User - 5787571
This write-up is going to be denser than my Swap vs. 1.9 write-up. And like many pros who hate Swap with a passion, I'm expecting some heated arguments here. But I'd welcome debate for this much talked about issue. Again, I'm writing this to supplement my Curated and Simplified Guides for FoE by the Ages. Also, this is a sequel to my first write-up of To Swap, or to 1.9, that is the question ... The reason, I create another article is to isolate the upcoming university 1st to 3rd-year Calculus (depending on which major you were in) and controversy to just one tread.
If you don't want to endure all of the ridiculous maths, here are the summaries:
1) Moderate: There are many potential pitfalls by using Swap channels; almost all of them are rooted in human greed. Suppose you are in a guild full of trustworthy players that actively participate in Swaps. Virtually all of these pitfalls can be avoided. But this is a very rare situation, believe it or not. You'd be fortunate to end up in such a guild, so please do your best not to be the bad guy. If not careful, a poorly monitored Swap system could break up a guild.
2) Moderate: If you don't have a healthy amount of FP in packs and daily harvests. Or you are in a guild full of croaks or not so smart players, STICK with 1.9 channels ONLY! Or (recruitment advertisement warning!!) move to Odhrorvar World on the English server's Freedom Fighter Guild. Where I actively participate in Swaps for my GBs' lower positions when leveling my GBs. Because I can trust my fellow guildies and this is my attempt to impart my understanding when and how to not to use Swaps so one can avoid pitfalls that are caused by neighborhood Snipers.
3) Advanced: DO NOT swap your P1-2 in between level 30 - 60! They have an infinite return on 1.9 channel!!!! I can not stress this enough. It'd be the dumbest thing ever! Because infinite is always higher than even 10x the Return!
4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back.
5) Advanced: If you have a healthy amount of FP banked (in FP packs) or daily harvests (200-400 and above a day), if and only if you are in a guild full of honest and smart players that participate in Swap, most of you could reap ridiculous amount FP return from each others' leveling GBs. They'd be coming from continuing returns from locking positions on each others' GBs over and over again (If you understand Infinite Geometric Series, you can skip the maths). And I'm talking about potentially 3-9 times more than ( !!!this comparison only applies to the lower positions!!!) filling your lower positions using 1.9 (this is where the controversy and maths come in) if you are lucky but still honest about it.
6) Black Magic: Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (add X # of FP specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "add more FP" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)
1) The evils of Swap channels!
I'm hesitant to talk in detail on how to game the Swap systems in a guild. So I'd just talk about them at a very high level.
3) Levels and Positions you should never swap:
I want to go over this topic before I proceed to the core of my analysis down below. In between level 30 - level 60, for most of the GBs, you should always use 1.9 channel to fill your P1 and 2, sometime even P3. Because they are FREE!!!! Meaning those positions in those levels require zero self-contribution and your fellow guildies could securing these positions directly by putting in required 1.9 FPs. That is an infinite return in FPs. And your fellow guildies are still compensated with a 190% return! No scenario in Swap channels this could happen in reality. So for the love of all things that are sacred to you, DO NOT swap these positions!
4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs dolled out to secure positions won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back. Now how high this chance and how consistent this chance could be would determine how successfully your Swapping would go when comparing to using 1.9 channel to level your GBs exclusively.
5) When and why swaps would work better than 1.9 channel?
Here are the pre-conditions for Swapping no to suck:
To Swap, or to 1.9, that is the question ...
The 1.9 could only get you a meager 51% return on filling your P4. if you stopped 1.9 after P3 and switched to using swaps. Here's what could happen, if and only if you full fill the aforementioned 4 pre-conditions:
And let's say on average, you could secure a 50% return from a swap each time you do it. Meaning you could get 50% FP coming back to you after you secure a position on the other player's GB.
Of course, my average is about 75% in Return as a more advanced player. Guess what, if we do the same maths with 75% instead of 50% of swapping return ratio:
Now, herewith more head-splitting maths, this is actually an Infinite Geometric Series. It can be "very easily" solved by the following steps.
r = Ratio of Return you can expect for your honest swapping guild channels (say 50% or 75%)
a = your initial FP put into the Swapping system (56 fps in our example)
n = how many times until your Return is down to 0 (or 1 in our case).
Total Return of FPs using a honest Swap system = a + ar + ar^2 + ... + ar^(n-1)
And with maths notations, we can express it as follows:
Here the n or the number of times you could keep on swapping could go to infinite, so it can be expressed as
Meaning we can solve your total Return in Swapping by plug in the number for "a" and your ratio for "r". This way, 50% average return rate every time you swap would get you 2, or a total 200% FP gain eventually (minus your initial 100% swap gain, you are looking at an overage FP returns of 100%). 75% would get you 4 or (400%-100%) = 300% in total FP return after all of the rounds of swaps. So guess what, if you can get 90% via your Swap consistently? You will end up with 10 or 1000% - 100% = 900% in total return ...
But all of these require you to full fill the four pre-conditions. And again, don't swap level 30-60s P1 or P2 as 1.9 channel gives you infinite return ratio!
6) Now, some of you might ask is there a way to make these geometric returns even higher. Believe it or not, the answer is yes.
Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (the one asks you to "spend X # of FPs" specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "spend X # of FPs" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again for higher swaps). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)
If you don't want to endure all of the ridiculous maths, here are the summaries:
1) Moderate: There are many potential pitfalls by using Swap channels; almost all of them are rooted in human greed. Suppose you are in a guild full of trustworthy players that actively participate in Swaps. Virtually all of these pitfalls can be avoided. But this is a very rare situation, believe it or not. You'd be fortunate to end up in such a guild, so please do your best not to be the bad guy. If not careful, a poorly monitored Swap system could break up a guild.
2) Moderate: If you don't have a healthy amount of FP in packs and daily harvests. Or you are in a guild full of croaks or not so smart players, STICK with 1.9 channels ONLY! Or (recruitment advertisement warning!!) move to Odhrorvar World on the English server's Freedom Fighter Guild. Where I actively participate in Swaps for my GBs' lower positions when leveling my GBs. Because I can trust my fellow guildies and this is my attempt to impart my understanding when and how to not to use Swaps so one can avoid pitfalls that are caused by neighborhood Snipers.
3) Advanced: DO NOT swap your P1-2 in between level 30 - 60! They have an infinite return on 1.9 channel!!!! I can not stress this enough. It'd be the dumbest thing ever! Because infinite is always higher than even 10x the Return!
4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back.
5) Advanced: If you have a healthy amount of FP banked (in FP packs) or daily harvests (200-400 and above a day), if and only if you are in a guild full of honest and smart players that participate in Swap, most of you could reap ridiculous amount FP return from each others' leveling GBs. They'd be coming from continuing returns from locking positions on each others' GBs over and over again (If you understand Infinite Geometric Series, you can skip the maths). And I'm talking about potentially 3-9 times more than ( !!!this comparison only applies to the lower positions!!!) filling your lower positions using 1.9 (this is where the controversy and maths come in) if you are lucky but still honest about it.
6) Black Magic: Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (add X # of FP specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "add more FP" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)
1) The evils of Swap channels!
I'm hesitant to talk in detail on how to game the Swap systems in a guild. So I'd just talk about them at a very high level.
- Overswapping by your fellow guildies to bump you off your targeted positions: As none of the positions are secured on Swap at the beginning, a dishonest guildie can swoop in and over Swap to overtake your targeted position.
- Private Swap AFTER public swaps: Some dishonest guildies would have a deal to private Swap AFTER it has been public swapped through the guild channels. This is to entice other guildies with higher positions only to have your private swap partner overtake them afterward. It's ok if you have a private swap partner, HOWEVER, only do so before you put them through the public swap channels. So at least your fellow guildies know what positions for which they are actually competing.
- Swap padding and snipper(s) invitation: Most of the time, this is done by newbie players that don't understand how sniping works. But I've seen this done intentionally! Most of the time, they are done by both dumb and dishonest players. I will kick these players both for their lack of integrity and intelligence.
3) Levels and Positions you should never swap:
I want to go over this topic before I proceed to the core of my analysis down below. In between level 30 - level 60, for most of the GBs, you should always use 1.9 channel to fill your P1 and 2, sometime even P3. Because they are FREE!!!! Meaning those positions in those levels require zero self-contribution and your fellow guildies could securing these positions directly by putting in required 1.9 FPs. That is an infinite return in FPs. And your fellow guildies are still compensated with a 190% return! No scenario in Swap channels this could happen in reality. So for the love of all things that are sacred to you, DO NOT swap these positions!
4) Advanced: There is one often neglected key difference between the self-contributing FPs to your GB's positions so they can be filled via 1.9 Channel vs. Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB. Remember as a GB owner using 1.9 to level it, your self-contributing FPs dolled out to secure positions won't ever come back. Since you yourself can not secure a position on your own GB. However, the Swapping FPs donations to other people's GB have a chance to come back. Now how high this chance and how consistent this chance could be would determine how successfully your Swapping would go when comparing to using 1.9 channel to level your GBs exclusively.
5) When and why swaps would work better than 1.9 channel?
Here are the pre-conditions for Swapping no to suck:
- Again, you are in an active guild full of honest players that regularly participate in Swap channels. So you don't end up waiting for swaps or getting screwed by dishonest players.
- Swap after using 1.9 channels to fill your higher positions with very high returns (again, DO NOT SWAP during level 30-60 for any GBs' P1-3). This is you only way to counter the Diminishing (marginal) Return with the lower positions.
- You should have a healthy amount of FPs banked or daily harvest. This would allow you to jokey for positions in the swap channels more competitively.
- You need to play often to allow yourself to lock those positions honestly. Instead of over-swapping!
To Swap, or to 1.9, that is the question ...
The 1.9 could only get you a meager 51% return on filling your P4. if you stopped 1.9 after P3 and switched to using swaps. Here's what could happen, if and only if you full fill the aforementioned 4 pre-conditions:
And let's say on average, you could secure a 50% return from a swap each time you do it. Meaning you could get 50% FP coming back to you after you secure a position on the other player's GB.
- Your first swap would get your 50% return using (37+19)/2 = 56/2 = 28
- Using the 28 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 28/2 = 14
- Using the 14 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 14/2 = 7
- Using the 7 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 7/2 = 3
- Using the 3 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 50% return in FP = 3/2 = 1
Of course, my average is about 75% in Return as a more advanced player. Guess what, if we do the same maths with 75% instead of 50% of swapping return ratio:
- Your first swap would get your 75% return using (37+19)x75% = 56x75% = 42
- Using the 42 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 42x75% = 31
- Using the 31 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 31x75% = 23
- Using the 23 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 23x75% = 17
- Using the 17 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 17x75% = 12
- Using the 12 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 12x75% = 9
- Using the 9 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 9x75% = 6
- Using the 6 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 6x75% = 4
- Using the 4 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 4x75% = 3
- Using the 3 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 3x75% = 2
- Using the 1 FPs return you put it to use for another lower position in a swap, and it gives you another 75% return in FP = 2x75% = 1
Now, herewith more head-splitting maths, this is actually an Infinite Geometric Series. It can be "very easily" solved by the following steps.
r = Ratio of Return you can expect for your honest swapping guild channels (say 50% or 75%)
a = your initial FP put into the Swapping system (56 fps in our example)
n = how many times until your Return is down to 0 (or 1 in our case).
Total Return of FPs using a honest Swap system = a + ar + ar^2 + ... + ar^(n-1)
And with maths notations, we can express it as follows:
Here the n or the number of times you could keep on swapping could go to infinite, so it can be expressed as
Meaning we can solve your total Return in Swapping by plug in the number for "a" and your ratio for "r". This way, 50% average return rate every time you swap would get you 2, or a total 200% FP gain eventually (minus your initial 100% swap gain, you are looking at an overage FP returns of 100%). 75% would get you 4 or (400%-100%) = 300% in total FP return after all of the rounds of swaps. So guess what, if you can get 90% via your Swap consistently? You will end up with 10 or 1000% - 100% = 900% in total return ...
But all of these require you to full fill the four pre-conditions. And again, don't swap level 30-60s P1 or P2 as 1.9 channel gives you infinite return ratio!
6) Now, some of you might ask is there a way to make these geometric returns even higher. Believe it or not, the answer is yes.
Once you have Arc 80 and CF 80, then you should swap while doing the recurring quest (the one asks you to "spend X # of FPs" specifically) of your age. With the rewards from the quest, now your Swap will come with an extra return from the recurring "spend X # of FPs" quests (just abort the rest quests until you get to it again for higher swaps). Detail see the following video: How to Make Unlimited Goods in Forge Of Empires - Using Recurring Quests, Chateau, and Arc in FoE (created by FoElite, aka. iPenguinPat)
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