Support Team Feedback! part 2

[DeletedUser]

In response to recent feedback we have received here on the forum, we are setting up this dedicated thread for players to have a place to offer constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement in relation to the support team and its members. We all sincerely want to listen and improve for the entire FOE-EN community, and look forward to hearing your suggestions on how we can offer the best possible support.

The only way this can work is if we all work together and follow these guidelines:

This is not a platform to direct personal attacks or disparaging remarks about the team or its members.

All posts must follow the rules of the forum, and also be respectful towards other players and the team
Personal opinions and/or attacks on any team members 'character' will not be allowed. You can comment on what you feel a certain member could improve on, but what you personally think of any individual is irrelevant.
What does this mean? Here are some examples:

I would like to see more of a presence from the CM or some other member of the team
- This is a request and is acceptable

Why don't the devs do this or that?
- For the purpose of this thread this is not the place for that post. This is about the support team on this server.

The CM is lazy and doesn't care
- This is not acceptable. It is not constructive, it's a personal judgement, and it serves no purpose

I have an issue with the way I was treated by a certain support member in a ticket. They acted like they didn't care
- Acceptable, but remember to not share details of the ticket or your account

All feedback must apply to the current team and its members on this server only. Members or situations that have happened so long ago that the team would have no way of resolving or acting on the feedback anyway, is not going to help the team improve. We want feedback on how we can improve now.
Once you have made your post on a given topic or member, do not keep re-posting it. We will take every post into account at all times, but multiple posts serve no purpose. We will hear you the first time you can be assured.
And finally, you all have to give us a chance. You can't just assume we will fail before we even start, or automatically assume we are not sincere in our desire to make positive changes.
We will do our best to be responsive to all constructive feedback and work to make those improvements, but you need to give us some time to make that happen. It would be unreasonable to think that we can change things overnight. We will however be making these improvements as quickly as possible, because we all want to do our best for all of you.


* Please note that although this thread is about how the team can improve, we will happily accept any positive feedback as well

Suggestion	Added	Status
Being more open and responsive to suggestions for the teams improvement.	12-10-2015	Noted
Increased forum presence and activity from the CM.	12-10-2015	Noted for the whole CM team
Making sure in-game support is informative and courteous in all communications with players.	13-10-2015	Done internally
More clearly defining the roles of the in-game mods, indicating what servers they work on.	15-10-2015	Done (available at this link)
The support team should be more present in global chats.	19-10-2015	Noted for the whole team
Provide more details to non-members about the forum registration process.	19-10-2015	Will be done with the new forum
Reconsider the existing forum validation procedure.	19-10-2015	Done (new members can post in Discussion&Questions without validation) ​
Full list of the support team, both volunteer and paid members.	19-10-2015	Done (available at this link)
Method for sending in complaints about the CM team.	19-10-2015	Reviewed and cannot be changed. If you have an issue with 1 member, contact the other 2 members. They will pass along the information to those above. ​
Allow discussion of actions more freely, within the allowed laws.	20-10-2015	Noted
Allow players to explain the situation prior to taking action against their rule violations	20-10-2015	Will be worked on internally
Moderation should be lighter, and deleting threads needs to be avoided	24-10-2015	Worked on
Review forum rules, clarify or improve them whenever possible.	24-10-2015	Noted & will be worked on
Ensure there is no favoritism within the work of the support team.	24-10-2015	Done internally
Review the forum reputation system.	24-10-2015	Will be done with the new forum
Review the appealing process procedures.	27-10-2015	Will be worked on internally

 

[GenghisXerxes]

Hi all,
I thought I would make a contribution to the original thread as it had been such an exciting read. I have posted it in the new thread as it is still relevant.

This is what it must have felt like being a spectator at the battle between the Titans and the Olympian Gods. All I would say is that it went very badly for the Titans so choose your side carefully.

First off I have to say that I have had no controversial dealings with mods or CMs or anyone else and have absolutely no axe to grind with anyone.

I have tried to look at this situation from the perspective of an Innogames shareholder rather than that of a player.

The players represent the source of income – or potential source of income – for Innogames, and should be considered as customers. Under the current arrangements players can become moderators and are then able to wield certain powers which appear to include the ability to remove players from the game. I do not know what the process is behind the scenes when a moderator decides to remove – or ban – another player, but as a shareholder it would give me some concern if a non-employee of Innogames was able to impact the income of the company in this way. At the very least I would want any such decisions to be peer-reviewed before anything happened to the customer. I would also hope that the customer would be given the opportunity to give their view of the events before a final decision was made. I appreciate that there are some decisions that need to be made and implemented quickly, for example, a customer account that is being used to advertise other games, or someone behaving in an extremely anti-social manner.
As an absolute minimum I would expect a record of any such decisions to be passed up to someone who is an Innogames employee. This person should be responsible for collating and monitoring all such decisions to ensure that they are not being made due to the personal bias of the moderator involved.
I cannot think of another area of commercial activity where one customer is able to deprive or deny another customer access to a service. As a shareholder I would be extremely uncomfortable with this situation.
The accepted practice appears to be “ban first – discuss later” – or, from a different perspective “guilty until proven innocent”. Again, not a practice that sits comfortably if this is the case.

In summary what I am suggesting is that some of these decisions should not be made by just one person and that the process needs to be revised and published so that there is absolute clarity for all involved.

Anyway, I thought I would try to make a non-controversial on-topic contribution to the thread.

 

[DeletedUser]

In response to recent feedback we have received here on the forum, we are setting up this dedicated thread for players to have a place to offer constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement in relation to the support team and its members. We all sincerely want to listen and improve for the entire FOE-EN community, and look forward to hearing your suggestions on how we can offer the best possible support.

The only way this can work is if we all work together and follow these guidelines:

This is not a platform to direct personal attacks or disparaging remarks about the team or its members.

All posts must follow the rules of the forum, and also be respectful towards other players and the team
Personal opinions and/or attacks on any team members 'character' will not be allowed. You can comment on what you feel a certain member could improve on, but what you personally think of any individual is irrelevant.
What does this mean? Here are some examples:

I would like to see more of a presence from the CM or some other member of the team
- This is a request and is acceptable

Why don't the devs do this or that?
- For the purpose of this thread this is not the place for that post. This is about the support team on this server.

The CM is lazy and doesn't care
- This is not acceptable. It is not constructive, it's a personal judgement, and it serves no purpose

I have an issue with the way I was treated by a certain support member in a ticket. They acted like they didn't care
- Acceptable, but remember to not share details of the ticket or your account

All feedback must apply to the current team and its members on this server only. Members or situations that have happened so long ago that the team would have no way of resolving or acting on the feedback anyway, is not going to help the team improve. We want feedback on how we can improve now.
Once you have made your post on a given topic or member, do not keep re-posting it. We will take every post into account at all times, but multiple posts serve no purpose. We will hear you the first time you can be assured.
And finally, you all have to give us a chance. You can't just assume we will fail before we even start, or automatically assume we are not sincere in our desire to make positive changes.
We will do our best to be responsive to all constructive feedback and work to make those improvements, but you need to give us some time to make that happen. It would be unreasonable to think that we can change things overnight. We will however be making these improvements as quickly as possible, because we all want to do our best for all of you.



* Please note that although this thread is about how the team can improve, we will happily accept any positive feedback as well

To get started, here are the issues we are already aware of, and are taking steps to improve:

An increased forum presence and activity from the CM
Making sure in-game support is informative and courteous in all communications with players
More clearly defining the roles of the in-game mods, indicating what servers they work on
Being more open and responsive to suggestions for the teams improvement

You forgot to include in your list that we would like an effective way to complain about you. Many players also posted that they would like you removed.

 

[DeletedUser]

1. Several times my posts were deleted without any message from the moderators, comment, or even infraction - they just disappeared without a trace. I think such practices are unacceptable.

I propose that, when a moderator deletes a post, the text of the post should be replaced with "The message was deleted by FM-Name due to (the reason)". The original text of the post should be sent to the author by PM so he/she will have a chance to file a complaint.

2. I also found that the moderators are, sometimes, too strict in applying "off-topic" rule. In many cases, a moderator declared a piece of discussion to be off-topic, while, from my POV, it was quite relevant. Probably it's a mere coincidence, but it often happened when players discussed Inno or CMT policies and practices, so it creates (hopefully, false) impression that the moderators use any means possible (including blatant restriction of freedom of speech) to prevent players from voicing their concerns and complaints.

I think it would be better if the players participating in a discussion decided by themselves if a certain part is on-topic or not. I don't have any "operational" proposal, but, basically, if a significant number of players participate in discussion of a certain issue, it is on-topic for this thread.

3. Another absolutely terrible practice in this forum is deleting whole discussion threads. I understand that sometimes there are reasons for moderators to lock threads, but I don't see any reason to delete them. The deleted threads usually were quite lively and contained a lot of interesting posts that I would like to have the possibility to read and/or refer to later. I believe this practice is another reason why many think the CMT is corrupt and try to sweep all the problems under the rug.

I propose that no discussion threads should be ever deleted. The simplest suggestion, it actually reduces the amount of work required from the CMT

The first (now locked) part of this thread is a good place to start this new policy. For me (maybe for others as well) it will be a clear indication whether the CMT is ready to make real changes or the only thing we'll get from it is the new CMT prefixes.

 

[DeletedUser6065]

Put byordie in charge.

Ya want a positive suggestion, ya got a positive suggestion.

**and don't delete the original thread. We need it for reference, and I'm having a hard time copying it to hard drive.**

. . . mk

 

[DeletedUser101150]

You forgot to include in your list that we would like an effective way to complain about you. Many players also posted that they would like you removed.

Final warning on continuing to bring up this subject until the team has had the chance to actually implement a complaint system.
And to be clear, the intent was always for suggestions to improve the current team and nothing more. No one was asked for their suggestions on who they may think should or should not be a member of the team. Those are internal decisions and that will not change.

 

[DeletedUser]

Final warning on continuing to bring up this subject until the team has had the chance to actually implement a complaint system.
And to be clear, the intent was always for suggestions to improve the current team and nothing more. No one was asked for their suggestions on who they may think should or should not be a member of the team. Those are internal decisions and that will not change.

You are so rude... Blacksmith's school...

Since Tracey started new thread, listing all the (reasonable) suggestions from the old one, I'm also wondering why "effective way to complain about CM" didn't make it there. You may add a note that it is currently being worked on (posting "due date" would be perfect), but it should be on the list.

 

[DeletedUser101150]

I reported a staff member about week ago, it was about promoting cheating. It was here on forums. Why I did not get a reply? Are some untouchable?

Can you please contact us through the support system so this can be looked into for you.

 

[DeletedUser108405]

Congrats to all who were taking bets on this new attitude of openness and transparency lasting less than a week. Business as usual; all criticism welcome unless it becomes inconvenient and uncomfortable.

Nice to see the word 'warning' work its way back into circulation though; as opposed to ban now and explain later, or not at all as the case may be.

 

[mrbeef]

I have a suggestion. Publish a listing (perhaps at the beginning of this thread) that shows the current status of feedback ideas that have been taken on-board. For example:

Idea/Suggestion	Status
Instead of not allowing new forum registrations to post at all, allow them to post in the Q&A section only	Under review

 

[DeletedUser106605]

slightly off topic, but maybe still relevant....how about a listing of all players that are "employed" by inno to help run these forums and list them according to rank??? maybe should be part of the sticky so that some of the newer members know whos who

 

[DeletedUser]

Final warning on continuing to bring up this subject until the team has had the chance to actually implement a complaint system.
And to be clear, the intent was always for suggestions to improve the current team and nothing more. No one was asked for their suggestions on who they may think should or should not be a member of the team. Those are internal decisions and that will not change.

Lol I'm sorry, what? If you didn't want something repeated, why is it not in the list? Unless you are deliberately trying to trip players up so you can ban them. As for warnings, I haven't received any official warnings, first, middle or last, but I have noticed that you people seem to skip straight to the permanent ban these days.

 

[mrbeef]

slightly off topic, but maybe still relevant....how about a listing of all players that are "employed" by inno to help run these forums and list them according to rank??? maybe should be part of the sticky so that some of the newer members know whos who

There is already...click on the link as shown in the following image:
http://clip2net.com/s/3p9yqtK

PS scroll down to the bottom of the main forum page to find it.

 

[DeletedUser96995]

interesting reading so far in this new thread
I was brought up in Communism. And am old enough to remember it pretty well and of course hear the stories of the older generation. Was a hard life to be in the opposition. There was missing mail...controlled telephone calls...dare I say - people who disappeared without explanation??? So forgive me if I compare the Inno regime to the Communism.

My suggestions which are going to echo those mentioned above (apologies for not quoting posts or names):
-stop deleting the posts UNLESS offensive and/or against the game rules. If deleted replace by the note who by and why
- stop "guilty until proven innocent" system... obviously, as a player who has been banned maaany times, I must state this. Maybe I deserved some of the bans. Maybe shouldn't have pointed out to the QM that their answers were wrong and eventually, after the heated discussion, call them what DelBoy called Rodney
-increase mod presence on global. Sometimes a gentle warning might stop the conflict from escalating
- DONT DELETE THE OLD THREAD - it was a good read, and got me hooked on the forum. Plus, wouldn't it be deleting your own evidence why 2 ex-mods have been banned? Like shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?
-which brings me to last point, which I believe should be mentioned. Don't ignore uncomfortable questions. Many players asked on the previous thread for the ban reasons of said 2 ex-mods, and when told "privacy rules" blah blah blah in response, pointed out as the rules shouldn't apply in this case as the ban must have been based on the posts in the thread which everyone could read.
All in all I believe that the current mod team does a brilliant job and I applaud them. Thank you guys.

P.S. and maybe you could fix the "preferential treatment" which also was mentioned in the other posts. all animals are equal, remember?

 

[DeletedUser108072]

I'm sorry, but I find it incredible that the decision to delete the old thread was right after Thanatos100 made this illuminating post:

Indeed you do have the right but you were questioning someone elses which is why I pointed it out. This thread is to discuss improvements to the moderating of the forum so it is quite reasonable for players to point out their past experiences which may include moderators or CCM's that are no longer in that position. I'm not happy that Star or Lady Lexis has been banned or that the points they raised have yet to be acknowledged.

In fact as far as I can tell the CM hasn't denied doing what they accused her of and if anything banning them will just lead many to believe there was some truth behind it. In fact if they were banned to cover it up that is probably a greater abuse of power.

We will probably never know as far as I can tell this CM team is not really pro transparency and likes the current forum model of running a dictatorship with nowhere for the customers to go to complain about the CM team other than to the CM team themselves.

So we are left with the CM believing she owns this server and can do what she likes with it according to one of her previous moderators who quoted her earlier in the thread.

This assessment could hardly have been corroborated better had the CM simply posted to say yes, you're absolutely right. I looked back to see the quote mentioned in the final paragraph, and find it shocking that an employee of InnoGames would behave this way.

The support team are the people with absolute control over Inno's customers' accounts; accounts which they have spent countless hours on, and in many cases real money. That they can behave in this corrupt way at will with no sanction from Inno to protect their customers beggars belief. Clearly any investment in this game is not safe.

 

[DeletedUser108406]

So, first let me say I have purposely avoided posting in this thread for several reasons. Primarily that my appearance would have only led to the intent of this thread being dragged even further off topic than it already has been. It was more important to begin to set up the suggestions we are already working on, including, but not limited to, a system to file complaints on level 3 support members.

Doesn't quite explain your continued absence and lack of participation in other areas of the forum... still. Furthermore, why, in the name of goodness, do you continue to reference these things that are being 'worked' on that are STILL not listed anywhere in these posts, despite Darkstar advising they would be. Can you PLEASE give a concise and updated list of issues you are aware of and are working on so that we can "avoid repetition" and "final warnings".

 

[DeletedUser101925]

My feedback would be not to delete the previous thread, cut back a little on censoring this forum and let people speak their minds. Perhaps if you give people more freedom to speak you will get this thread, eventually, where you want it. If you continue the path of censoring it's probably better to just close this thread.

Edit:

On another note your style of moderating in these threads is very confrontational which seems to provoke members to respond in a similar manner. Those experienced with dealing with the public will have received training to avoid escalating discussions along this path. Maybe this is an area that could be improved.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[DeletedUser99588]

Final warning on continuing to bring up this subject until the team has had the chance to actually implement a complaint system.
And to be clear, the intent was always for suggestions to improve the current team and nothing more. No one was asked for their suggestions on who they may think should or should not be a member of the team. Those are internal decisions and that will not change.

I'm totally confused. The other thread was quite long so I may have missed it, in which case please point me to it, but where has the CM Team responded saying they are looking into a new complaints system to address the problem of not having an Innogames full time employee that customers can complain to about the CM team.

Zarok, are you confirming this is something that is going to happen?

On another note your style of moderating in these threads is very confrontational which seems to provoke members to respond in a similar manner. Those experienced with dealing with the public will have received training to avoid escalating discussions along this path. Maybe this is an area that could be improved.

 

[DeletedUser15526]

agreed thanatos there is nowhere that this is stated in this current thread, also considering the old thread is to be taken away, there will be no reference to it anywhere.

i also agree that Zaroks last statement can be seen as confrontational, and in my opinion uncalled for as a senior in game mod an example of standards should be adhered to. a bit to abrubt if you ask me.

so in the name of constructive feedback, i agree that perhaps some training in dealing with the public is an excellent idea.

 

[DeletedUser101150]

Business as usual; all criticism welcome unless it becomes inconvenient and uncomfortable.

Until they violate rules and policies, not because they are inconvenient or uncomfortable.

I have a suggestion. Publish a listing (perhaps at the beginning of this thread) that shows the current status of feedback ideas that have been taken on-board. For example:

Idea/Suggestion	Status
Instead of not allowing new forum registrations to post at all, allow them to post in the Q&A section only	Under review

This is a great idea and we will work to integrate this into our process, thank you.

slightly off topic, but maybe still relevant....how about a listing of all players that are "employed" by inno to help run these forums and list them according to rank??? maybe should be part of the sticky so that some of the newer members know whos who

You can find a complete list of members of this servers team here.
Or are you referring to a complete list of all Innogames employees?

Lol I'm sorry, what? If you didn't want something repeated, why is it not in the list?

Do you mean what was acknowledged here:

It was more important to begin to set up the suggestions we are already working on, including, but not limited to, a system to file complaints on level 3 support members.

Or here:

We are setting up the system to do this, and when it is approved by the LCM we will announce it.

As for warnings, I haven't received any official warnings, first, middle or last, but I have noticed that you people seem to skip straight to the permanent ban these days.

Skipping straight to the permanent bans. Is this referring to the 2 ex-staff from the previous thread? I'm not sure this establishes a wide spread pattern, but I respect your right to your opinions.

We will be posting an updated list containing all things currently being addressed in relation to improvements. We hope to have this available by the end of the day.