Forwarded: Restart a GBG battle following an Internal error between two waves

[Lord Tachikawa]

Proposal: At the end of the first wave of a two-wave battle in Guild Battlegrounds (GBG), selecting “Heal all” with diamonds sometimes results in a popup message “Sorry, an internal error occurred. Please try later” (Visual #1) and the game reloads with the options to either Retreat or Continue Combat (Visual #2, Unfinished Business). Neither is a good option, as both force the player to accept the damage from the first wave battle, resulting in either the player loosing (Retreat) or starting the second wave with degraded units (Continued Combat, Visual #3). The idea here is to give the player a third option to “Restart Battle” which would simply restart the encounter at the beginning of the first wave.

Have you checked the forums for the same or similar idea? I have, and not found one that is relevant. The closest I came was a discussion item https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/internal-server-error-military-units.45519/ which never reached the choice to continue the battle and was more focused on the need to submit a ticket to support to recover lost units.

Reason: As designed, the game allows the player an option to begin the second wave of a two-wave battle after healing units using diamonds. As implemented, the error recovery by the system removes that option. This idea would restore that option to the player by allowing them to start the battle over.
In the specific scenario captured in the screen-shots below, loss of that option did not lead to defeat, but several times during the last three weeks I have not been so lucky and lost a battle I could have won had many of my units not been killed or significantly damaged.

Details: This idea would add a third option following game reload (Visual #2) where the player can choose “Restart Battle” at wave one, using the same units and in the same state as they originally began wave one, and with the expectation that the second wave would follow on without encountering another internal error.

Visual Aids: The following screenshots are referred to in the proposal and subsequently in the discussion above, and illustrate the current behavior that can be improved.

Visual #1. Internal error

Visual #2. Choose: Unfinished Business: Retreat or Continue Combat

Visual #3. Continue combat (with damaged units)

Balance/Abuse Prevention: This would not be subject to abuse and would have no impact on game balance other than to encourage players to spend more diamonds.

Summary: Adding a “Restart Battle” option to the system recovery from an internal error at the end of the first wave of a two-wave GBG battle would allow the player to complete the battle in a normal manner rather than retreating or fighting with missing/damaged units.. (Note: Unknown at this time is if certain unit combinations can cause such an internal error, but if they do, this could help pinpoint (and then correct) such problems.)

 

[Knight of ICE]

What is wrong with simply retreating? That will also give you the chance to start a battle with fresh units. It even gives you the benefit of getting a 1 wave battle next. I seriously doubt there are many players using diamonds to heal their units during GBG. This just seems over the top to me for an error I have never encountered. If heal all is causing this, you should report it as a bug. Like I said, I have never seen this, but I never heal. Only time I ever got a message like this was during maintenance.

 

[Shad23]

What is wrong with simply retreating? That will also give you the chance to start a battle with fresh units. It even gives you the benefit of getting a 1 wave battle next. I seriously doubt there are many players using diamonds to heal their units during GBG. This just seems over the top to me for an error I have never encountered. If heal all is causing this, you should report it as a bug. Like I said, I have never seen this, but I never heal. Only time I ever got a message like this was during maintenance.

i think what he's trying to say is that he did not get to heal his units between the waves cause of the internal error wich the game realy acts that way when you re-load you don't get option to heal your units it's eather retreat or continue without healing your units what he's asking is an option where you could after reloading heal your units befor continue combat

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

Shad is right. Correct me if I am wrong, but if I retreat then I accept the current loss/damage that I was not able to heal. It also causes quests such as "Win five (5) battles without losing" to count this as a loss and reset the counter. I don't believe that is fair. (I know, no one promised fair...) I have played awhile as well (other servers), and don't heal with diamonds there, and have not seen this error before either. Never the less it has happened a number of times here. Fighting on a new world (Useria) and trying to advance rapidly has me pushing attrition in ways I never have ... hence finding this issue. I didn't report it as a bug, because I think the actual "bug" is whatever is causing the internal error (which could be numerous things), and what we are seeing here is the error handling routine doing as it is supposed to do ... preventing a crash and keeping the game alive. Just not very elegantly. I am afraid if I report this as a bug, I will be told that it is not a bug, and if I want this improved to go to the Forum. Catch 22. This way the player community represented here on the Forum can chime in as to if it is worth the developer's effort to improve.

 

[MightyJS]

I agree with Lord T, I've seen the same problem

 

[Knight of ICE]

i think what he's trying to say is that he did not get to heal his units between the waves cause of the internal error wich the game realy acts that way when you re-load you don't get option to heal your units it's eather retreat or continue without healing your units what he's asking is an option where you could after reloading heal your units befor continue combat

That is not what he is asking for. He is asking for a do over of the entire battle, with ofcourse the chance the error will happen again.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I retreat then I accept the current loss/damage that I was not able to heal.

Yes you do, but you can replace them with fresh units.

It also causes quests such as "Win five (5) battles without losing" to count this as a loss and reset the counter. I don't believe that is fair. (I know, no one promised fair...)

I hardly consider that a valid argument. If you are at a stage where you have to heal your units in GBG, you should consider other options to finish that quest. There are plenty.

I have played awhile as well (other servers), and don't heal with diamonds there, and have not seen this error before either. Never the less it has happened a number of times here. Fighting on a new world (Useria) and trying to advance rapidly has me pushing attrition in ways I never have ... hence finding this issue. I didn't report it as a bug, because I think the actual "bug" is whatever is causing the internal error (which could be numerous things), and what we are seeing here is the error handling routine doing as it is supposed to do ... preventing a crash and keeping the game alive. Just not very elegantly. I am afraid if I report this as a bug, I will be told that it is not a bug, and if I want this improved to go to the Forum. Catch 22. This way the player community represented here on the Forum can chime in as to if it is worth the developer's effort to improve.

You should report it as a bug. It gives Support the chance to have a look at it and if they tell you it is not a bug, you have a strong argument for your proposal. It is win-win.

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

I seriously doubt there are many players using diamonds to heal their units during GBG.

Perhaps, but those who do are entitled to a game that works well.

This just seems over the top to me for an error I have never encountered. If heal all is causing this, you should report it as a bug. Like I said, I have never seen this, but I never heal. Only time I ever got a message like this was during maintenance.

Just because you have not encountered this situation or never use diamonds to heal does not mean that other players have not encountered it or that other players do not use diamonds to heal. The situation does exist, and some players do use diamonds to heal. Something I believe Inno supports. Why not improve the game for everyone and not just for those whose style of play is the same as yours or mine?

I hardly consider that a valid argument. If you are at a stage where you have to heal your units in GBG, you should consider other options to finish that quest. There are plenty.

So your advice is, instead of asking the developers to improve GBG so that it works as intended after an internal error, I should just accept it as it is and find a workaround? Pardon me if I demur, but that hardly seems to me to be in anyone's best interest.

You should report it as a bug. It gives Support the chance to have a look at it and if they tell you it is not a bug, you have a strong argument for your proposal. It is win-win.

I still believe it meets all the requirements for a suggested improvement, and wish to give members of the community a chance to discuss every aspect of the idea before it is recommended to the developers. If it does not draw the needed support for the idea to be forwarded, I am perfectly willing to accept that. It is not essential to game playability, just a modest improvement.

 

[Emberguard]

He is asking for a do over of the entire battle, with ofcourse the chance the error will happen again.

This is the only argument I could see against the idea:

If the game is glitching with heal all (and I know it does quite regularly), will you end up in a constant loop of restarting and getting nowhere?


@Lord Tachikawa it’s a shame the games third option isn’t “heal all (x Diamonds) and continue combat”. I do like your idea, it just carries a risk of reencountering the same bug

 

[Knight of ICE]

Perhaps, but those who do are entitled to a game that works well.

Everybody is, so bugs need to be fixed. It does not mean game changes need to be made to find a way around those bugs just for a few. That's just my opinion.

Just because you have not encountered this situation or never use diamonds to heal does not mean that other players have not encountered it or that other players do not use diamonds to heal. The situation does exist, and some players do use diamonds to heal. Something I believe Inno supports. Why not improve the game for everyone and not just for those whose style of play is the same as yours or mine?

Again, that is why the bug needs to be fixed. Not why there has to be found a way around it.

So your advice is, instead of asking the developers to improve GBG so that it works as intended after an internal error, I should just accept it as it is and find a workaround? Pardon me if I demur, but that hardly seems to me to be in anyone's best interest.

No, it isn't advice. I just think that your argument abouts quests is not valid in this case. It's like saying a car manufacturer has created a bad car, cause you got a flat tire.

I still believe it meets all the requirements for a suggested improvement, and wish to give members of the community a chance to discuss every aspect of the idea before it is recommended to the developers. If it does not draw the needed support for the idea to be forwarded, I am perfectly willing to accept that. It is not essential to game playability, just a modest improvement.

And I still believe it is better if they focus on fixing a bug, than to create a work around it. If it is a bug that work around will not work, cause they will be creating a perpetuum mobile.

Bottom line, you can not fix a bug by creating a way around it that has the same bug in it. You use "Restart Battle". Heal your units after the first wave and get the error again. That just does not make sense.

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

He is asking for a do over of the entire battle, with ofcourse the chance the error will happen again.

This is the only argument I could see against the idea:

Thank you Ember, I missed replying to that and it is a valid concern. As I noted in my original post,

(Note: Unknown at this time is if certain unit combinations can cause such an internal error, but if they do, this could help pinpoint (and then correct) such problems.)

My thought was that if an endless loop occurs, then the player can select one of the original two options to exit the loop, AND we now know of a specific unit combination that may result in the internal error. Or perhaps if it happened three the current Continue Combat could be automatically selected and the data recorded and stored in the system

This would be a good thing if it provided the developers with the information needed to fix the cause of the internal error.

This is why it is important to me to post this as a new idea, so that other members of the community can discuss every aspect of the idea and give the developers as many ideas and concerns as possible (assuming it has enough support). I hope others will identify any other concerns and/or provide other ideas regarding this one.

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

Bottom line, you can not fix a bug by creating a way around it that has the same bug in it. You use "Restart Battle". Heal your units after the first wave and get the error again. That just does not make sense.

You and I agree here at least in part ... the problem is that we have two issues...(1) an initial bug that caused the internal error (something that may have many causes) and (2) an error handling routine that subverts the initial design and should be much easier to address. The purpose of this idea is to address the second issue (the error handling routine).

 

[Knight of ICE]

Question. Do you autobattle in these situations?

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

Question. Do you autobattle in these situations?

I don't think so, as if I am paying diamonds to heal units, I am past using autobattle except at the end of a battle when it is clear I have won and it's just cleanup.. Starting a new world without a Traz or major boosts or goods has been a humbling experience. It has been fun though ... everyone is in the same boat,. While it is no longer quite so primitive, pretty much anything after Level 1 in GE (where I have not had this issue) or an obvious win (8 heavy I can counter with 8 artillery at low attrition) is manual. I can't say for certain that none of these situations fell into one where autobattle made sense, so it is possible some did, especially if it was a rush situation (also pretty rare at this stage). I hope that helps. If that information might be useful I will make note in the future,

 

[Knight of ICE]

Was just trying to figure out the situation. Restarting the battle would mean starting with the same units again, but also on the same battleground. In that case autobattle would be a repetition of moves that very likely will result in the same error.

@Lord Tachikawa it’s a shame the games third option isn’t “heal all (x Diamonds) and continue combat”. I do like your idea, it just carries a risk of reencountering the same bug

Wouldn't that have the same result? After all you start with heal all and that is what caused the error.

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

Wouldn't that have the same result? After all you start with heal all and that is what caused the error.

I don't want to answer for @Emberguard, but speaking for myself, I don't think we know what caused the internal error to begin with. That is part of the problem ... here are so many possibilities. I would expect that if this idea receives enough support to be referred to the developers, that they (the developers) would do a professional job in fixing the error handling to avoid an infinite loop if the same error was encountered, as well as identifying what that error was and take steps to fix it. Especially if people keep asking good questions, and they read this thread before they release a fix. No one is perfect, but in my experience when the developers are responding to a bug or a request from the community most things they release do work. Remember that I am not asking the developers to identify all the things that might cause the internal error (I think they would have done that long ago if they could) but only to fix the error handling so that if at all possible, the player is not adversely effected by the error as they are now.

 

[Knight of ICE]

I don't want to answer for @Emberguard, but speaking for myself, I don't think we know what caused the internal error to begin with. That is part of the problem ... here are so many possibilities. I would expect that if this idea receives enough support to be referred to the developers, that they (the developers) would do a professional job in fixing the error handling to avoid an infinite loop if the same error was encountered, as well as identifying what that error was and take steps to fix it. Especially if people keep asking good questions, and they read this thread before they release a fix. No one is perfect, but in my experience when the developers are responding to a bug or a request from the community most things they release do work. Remember that I am not asking the developers to identify all the things that might cause the internal error (I think they would have done that long ago if they could) but only to fix the error handling so that if at all possible, the player is not adversely effected by the error as they are now.

You don't know what caused the error, but how likely is it that repeating the same will not cause it again?

You are not asking the developers to fix the error. You are asking them to come up with a work around and leave the error as is.

For an idea to be forwarded to the developers, you need 70% Community Support after wich it gets forwarded. When forwarded it gets gathered with all other forwarded ideas from all other forums to see if it is new. Only then it will reach the developers and will get on a pile for them to see if they will implement it or not.

If you file in a bug report the moment it happens, Support can take a look at it. If it is a bug, they will forward it to the developers in which case they will take action.

I am on your side. You are going about this the wrong way. Bugs have a priority to get fixed if possible. Ideas are looked at on their merrit and what it takes to implement them. For an extra option to have a work around for a bug, they will look at how many times it occurs. How do you rate your chances at that?

I am telling you this as a player, who has been playing for many years and has been on the forums for about as long. Report it as a bug. As an idea, I do not see it going anywhere.

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

I appreciate both your advice and your experience Ice. I really do. I just do not agree.
"Internal error" is a catch-all phrase for anything that will crash the system if not handled.
The "unfinished business" routine is the error handler for this piece of code, and it works ... it keeps the internal error from crashing the program. If it works, it is not a "bug" and the developers can simply turn it down.
It just does not work in a manner that it should, and that can be improved. Improving it is the purpose of this idea. I understand that if it doesn't get more support than it has, it won't be picked up. That still doesn't make it a bug.
If it's not picked up, it's not picked up.
Perhaps someone from Support or QA will look at this thread and agree that it should be fixed (whatever you call it). Or not. Inshallah.

Ice, I think you are an excellent Forum Mod. Maybe as good as Stephen Longshanks. If you have been around as long as I think you have you know that is a complement. I didn't always agree with him either.

 

[Emberguard]

Wouldn't that have the same result? After all you start with heal all and that is what caused the error.

It’d skip restarting the entire battle, so less time wasted. The error occurs at the time of healing, and sometimes the heal partially works, but only heals one unit at a time anyway

 

[Knight of ICE]

Ice, I think you are an excellent Forum Mod. Maybe as good as Stephen Longshanks. If you have been around as long as I think you have you know that is a complement. I didn't always agree with him either.

If you had been around as long as I you would know I would not consider that as a complement

 

[Lord Tachikawa]

LMAOIRL. You really should not make me laugh when I have just taken my first sip of coffee. Still, there are much worse ways to start a day.