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Reform the Virgo Project

DeletedUser9756

The idea of the Virgo Project was good on paper but I believe it should be stronger than it currently is. Right now it gives supplies and x% of destroying units for x amount of times.

My proposal is simple, change the supplies into forge points. The reason for this is getting the Virgo Project to level 60 requires anywhere from 28,039 FP (if you have a 1.9 thread) to 76,835 FP. This would be reasonable if FP's were offered instead of supplies. Most players in Space Age Mars have more than enough supplies and there are several other GB's that give more than enough supplies.

I think a FP ratio should be similar to the Kraken. It would reward players for building one but it would take a long time to see the benefits.

The Virgo Project already received an Nerf and now it is too weak. I hope it gets balanced as I would love to build one!

Thanks,
Shade666
 

DeletedUser9756

Agent has a point, not all GB's need to give out FP's but the Virgo Project needs an exceptional amount of FP's for it be useful. Its bonus is far too inconstant, amount of times are to low to be useful for any attack players.

My reasoning is a building similar to the Virgo Project call the Kraken. The Kraken gives out 22 one units kills that are almost 100% and 48 forge points at level 60. Yes it is expensive but it makes Kraken worthwhile building.

You can get your Zeus and COA both up to level 60 for less forge points than the Virgo Project and the benefits are a lot better.

You can get a 110% attack and defense boost and still this cheaper than a level 60 Virgo Project.


Zeus at 1.9 level 1-60 =11,129 FP
Cathedral of Aachen at 1.9 level 1-60= 12,951FP
Total= 24080FP for zeus and COA level 60

The Virgo project
To get it from level 1 to 60=28,039FP
67.96% x5 and 946,564 supplies

So around 3 out of 5 attacks the NPC enemy will lose 4 units at the start of a battle. This would be ok if it was in bronze age but not in the Space Age Mars era.

The Space Age Mars great buildings are a disappointment since the VF era gave some very creative and useful GB's.
 

Agent327

Overlord
Agent has a point, not all GB's need to give out FP's but the Virgo Project needs an exceptional amount of FP's for it be useful. Its bonus is far too inconstant, amount of times are to low to be useful for any attack players.

My reasoning is a building similar to the Virgo Project call the Kraken. The Kraken gives out 22 one units kills that are almost 100% and 48 forge points at level 60. Yes it is expensive but it makes Kraken worthwhile building.

You can get your Zeus and COA both up to level 60 for less forge points than the Virgo Project and the benefits are a lot better.

You can get a 110% attack and defense boost and still this cheaper than a level 60 Virgo Project.
So?

Not all GB's are that great. There are many others that are not worth building. You have a choice here. Nobody is forcing you to built it or level it. There is no reason to change it.
 

Emberguard

Legend
(1) Virgo has never given supplies. It give coins which we haven’t seen from a GB since contemporary era. And coins = FPs ;) not necessarily as much as you’d like but still gives you access to FPs


(2) There’s a saying: Hard choices make for a easy life. Easy choices make for a hard life.

Virgo not being the immediately obvious-in-your-face choice doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Virgo offers the same value diamonds do in negotiations or healing troops. A limited resource allowing you to get a fraction further then you otherwise would without it. That’s your “hard choice”. Do you put resources into it to get a fraction further or do you put resources elsewhere to build up your entire army?

Virgo is absolutely a niche GB. It’s a GB I’d recommend building after you’ve already built up your foundation elsewhere. Because there’s the catch, it’s only useful IF you have a foundation built for it to work alongside with


(3) supposing every GB had FPs. Which ones would you build? Or would you dump Virgo anyway because everything has FPs?
 

DeletedUser9756

My mistake I meant coins not supplies. But the point still remains. When most players reach the space age mars they already have a powerful st marks and chateau making coins nearly irrelevant.

My issue with this GB is the amount of personal investment cost. The cost benefit of this GB is insane. It should reward the player a bit more since they put a nerf on this GB already.
 
Virgo may be worth it once the new guild battleground thing is released, allowing you to fight when the attrition is high but for now I won't be looking to build it
 

Emberguard

Legend
the bonus itself is the same as before it just doesn’t work in neighbourhoods. So point taken that you consider it a nerf, I don’t see it as a nerf but rather an outright exclusion to a specific aspect of the game where it’d be downright broken without a counter measure.

ok, irrelevant as far as making coins goes. It’s possible due to its power the devs added coins as a way to activate the uses and werent looking to have a significant second bonus. FPs would definitely have been nice, it would also reduce the overall cost to lvl and add an additional stream of income.
 

Forwandert

Brigadier-General
With the amounts of chances to hit I dont think it'll ever be worth investing in, not even slightly tempted. Think they should have combined the two SAM gbs main bonuses into one and then figured something out for the second gb. That may have made it worth building and even then it wouldn't have been a GB I was in any rush to build.

Think there are limited options for gb bonuses that players will want so they will tend to get quite repetitive as the eras move on. This eras completely lacked any thought though as no doubt stats for building will have made inno aware of. This is the first era I've not been asked for goods to build the gbs from.
 

Emberguard

Legend
Even modern era? (Atom, Space Needle) was the game not advanced enough for those to lack appeal or were you around later on in the games life?
 

Agent327

Overlord
My issue with this GB is the amount of personal investment cost. The cost benefit of this GB is insane. It should reward the player a bit more since they put a nerf on this GB already.
It's a SAM GB. The costs are supposed to be insane compared to others. You need to compare the costs to those of the previous era GB's and compared to those there is nothing wrong with the costs. Since you believe it should give a bit more that means it should give more coins. Would you be happy with that?
 

DeletedUser9756

I see the Virgo Project project as a potential kraken. It should have a secondary bonus similar to Kraken. Even if the FP ratio 0.6(like Hagia and Inno) it would be better. If inno games does this they can salvage the Virgo Project.

Fair point on the neighborhood I can see a lot of players quitting the game because there defenses get breached due to no skill.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Agent327

Overlord
I see the Virgo Project project as a potential kraken. It should have a secondary bonus similar to Kraken. Even if the FP ratio 0.6(like Hagia and Inno) it would be better. If inno games does this they can salvage the Virgo Project.
Don't you see how ridiculous that argument is? No GB is a potential other GB. You can not compare them. Some are great, some are good and others suck. It is how it is. They have been nerfed , but never changed.
 

DeletedUser9756

Then what is the point of a feedback forum?

All I see is a missed opportunity. A lot of SAM players were disappointed with the Virgo Project. I personally think that Virgo Project is one of the most creative GB's that Inno Games came up with. I look forward to the next GB's that come out.

In my guild they loved the concept but the actual usefulness is impractical.

Yes not all GB's are going to be exceptional but the last era gave us some really good GB's. I love my Terracotta army and Himeji castle.

At the very least FP's, increased amount the % could work or increased the % of success would be nice. Any of these options would make it more feasible to build.

Yes it can't be crazy but modification would be nice.

If it was a bit better then people in lower eras would be more likely to spend diamonds on blueprints and goods.
 

Emberguard

Legend
Then what is the point of a feedback forum?
Try not to be too discouraged with opposing views. It matters more that you post the feedback so it can be passed on then whether anyone (myself included) agrees with it

As to GBs in particular, the best place to post the feedback is on the thread it was released. For the Virgo that'd be here:
https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/space-age-mars.37706/

The reason the Virgo was altered is specifically because of player feedback on Beta. Usually once a GB reaches live they're only altered if there's a major problem with its function in the game though that's not to say it couldn't ever change for a different reason.

At the very least FP's, increased amount the % could work or increased the % of success would be nice. Any of these options would make it more feasible to build.

Yes it can't be crazy but modification would be nice.
Personally I wouldn't have minded seeing the %'s played around a little along with the amount of activations. It'd have been nice to have unlimited shots or more shots, but I also realise too many shots would make % a moot point as even if it had been a lot of shots at 1% you could essentially make it 100% by re-entering battles until it works.

So if there were changes to the activation it'd be limited as to how far it could go before it might as well be made a sure fire thing. It has to be balanced in relation to everything else a player has at their disposal. If it required Mars Ore to be built so only SAM players could access it then it might not matter so much if it were 100% activation every battle due to the increased difficulty. But it's got to be useable for Iron Age and not break the game prior to the age it was made for. So unless they're also willing to change it on a per age basis like the unrefined goods then it'd have to be universal changes
 

DeletedUser9756

GB's that give out diamonds is not that far out of an idea. Inno games has three GB's that give a chance to give diamonds.

Chateau Frontenac
Himeji Castle
Seed Vault

As for the Virgo Project there are two possible modifications that could make it better without making it too overpowered.

Non FP route.

I have never seen a Virgo project in the top players of my server. I have discussed the Virgo Project with them about the virgo project and they have expressed the % chance is fair. The major issue is the amount of times they can use it. It is too low for the amount of FP's it requires and the benefits are very limited.

If it had a similar amount of attempts to the kraken it would be interesting. To make it balanced the coins would need to go entirely, the amount of units it effects, and it would only work in GE and CPU's.


FP route

FP's instead of coins is not a far out idea. Look at the Kraken it gives FP's and has a very high chance of eliminating 1 unit before the battle starts and it can effect players and computers alike. If the Virgo Project went down the FP route it should be 0.8 and the missile launch should only affect two units instead of four. Percentages and amounts of times could go up a bit but does not need to be crazy.
 

Emberguard

Legend
An excellent point. We do have diamond giving GBs. Within that there are reasonable expectations though. Low hit rate (1%), small amount (50) and scarce release among the GBs

For GBs about a third give FPs in some form. So while it’d be reasonable to expect the possibility of FPs, it’d also be a reasonable assumption that some ages released won’t get FPs.

Your suggestion for trading out two dead units for FPs isn’t a bad one (in my opinion) if they were to add FPs