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Possibility to repeat a GE level instead of advancing

  • Thread starter DeletedUser103370
  • Start date

Vote


  • Total voters
    20

DeletedUser103370

Proposal
Let us choose to repeat a level or advance to the next one.

Have you Checked the Ideas section for the same idea posted by someone else? Is this idea similar to one that has been previously suggested?
NA.

Reason
More accessible GE for smaller players.

Details
Not everyone has infinite number of troops / resources / bonuses to advance. Especially now, that GE levels are exponentially harder, for many it's either not worth it to advance (too many troop losses), or they simply don't have the resources to do it. Repeatable levels could perhaps increase participation further.

Visual Aids
Vl7RxIt.png

Balance

update: As @Augustavian said, to make it work, advancing a level should always worth it more than to stay and repeat to avoid possible abuse, every repeated level should give gradually less rewards, or for example repeating levels giving only basic rewards. The exact numbers are up to the devs - except if one of you think can work it out -, like it's up to them in the current system too. There were many adjustments of the rewards over time, and I guess there will be, if repeating a level is implemented it should be adjusted too accordingly.
There could be other restrictions too, for example the last level could not be repeated. Or perhaps a higher level player could repeat less than a lower one. There are virtually unlimited possibilities, only the goal must be clear, then make some rules to favor them
.

It really needs only the button of the finished level to change to "Repeat" or "Play again".

Concerns
Here I'd like to highlight the concerns raised by some players, and answer them the best I can
  • @Augustavian "I think there is merit to this, but a player should only be able to do a maximum of 64 encounter completions a week, and only be able to repeat a level if there is an entire level not yet done, say for instance you finish level 2, your guild has to have 3 open in order for you to repeat 2, if you feel you have enough gas in the tank to do 2 again but not 3."
    Yes, this is certainly one way to do it. The number of repeats can be limited, but we can impose limits based on level, or even military strength too! When GE was implemented, it's rewards, hardness, troops, everything changed non-stop. In fact they're still adjusting it nowadays, from time to time. We just have to get to that delicate and acceptable balance.
  • @Test Ament's concern is that "this would be only a cheap way to get more rewards, relics, points, and so on"
    To prove it it's not the goal, we've proposed several solutions, for example repeating a level would only give basic rewards, plus since level 1 by itself gives less points in every aspect, in other words it would always worth it more to advance to the highest level you can achieve, and perhaps repeat that one if you want to
  • @joesoap had a similar concern, she said that "this idea might take away a players incentive to try to be better, if players can repeat level 1 rather than trying to take on the level 2"
    As I explained just above, with the right balance of rewards figured out, this problem can be easily eliminated. Since the goal is not to take away the motivation to advance, but to give a way to play more if you want to, but you're not strong enough to advance.
    "isnt this more likely to widen the gap, small players get to repeat level 1 & get a few extra points for themselves & their guilds, big players can repeat level 3 & get a lot more points for themselves & their guilds, plus it will likely be easier for big players to do far more repeats as they will have a lot more units from traz"
    Have to admit, she got me with that. I simply can't answer if it would widen the gap or closing it. As I see, it really depends on how many small or big players would use repeats in the first place. One thing I'm fairly certain of, more of us using GE and more times, the better. Competition gets more of a challenge, and in overall it should be good for a cooperation based feature. If there are serious concerns, that for example really big players would use it like a hundred times, then other restrictions can be put in place, just as an example only the first two levels would be repeatable. But ERA based restrictions could work just as good, as already obviously a small player won't get AF units in the encounters, reaching certain ages could limit possibilities differently. This way it's possible to make sure the gap closes.
  • @Prinza the Hunter had several questions: "the problem is not so much motivating players to play more GE but to play GE at all"
    That's absolutely right, this wouldn't solve the problem if someone doesn't wanna get involved in GE at all. But to be honest that's not the goal of it either. We should address that problem perhaps by giving more incentives, but that's for another topic
    "Since the player will get less reward (how do you give less of one unit?) on a repeated level, there would have to be a pop-up box informing the player of this, so they don't think they are just going to get a repeat of the last attempt."
    Yes, so as we talked about it, giving less reward can be done in many ways. Ie. you wouldn't get diamonds and special buildings in repeating levels (you name it). The troop rewards I'd keep because that's basically motivates you to fight more, but that's debatable too, point is we can come up with the right amount if we want to.
    "On the whole, I don't see how this will work well in practice but do see it would be heavily used, requiring a lot of re-balancing."
    As he mentioned obviously a sort of pop-up or something should inform you before you start a repeat, of what you could expect. Other than that it would be pretty simple. After you finished a level, you get a Play Again button. Regarding the balance, I wouldn't say re-balancing, because the current levels don't even have to be modified for a feature like this, the only thing needed is to figure out the acceptable rewards for repeats. And you only have to do that as much, as you adjust the other levels in time anyway.
  • @OVERTYPE says "I personally can't support idea like this especially if it will increase participation further"
    I think this is very radical, especially coming from a moderator, but more importantly there is no good reason why anyone would be against something which would probably increase participation. The only understandable reason could be if a certain feature would increase lag, but even then, the solution is to not involve as many people?

    "I'm saying that this idea actually make the game easier:rolleyes:".
    I categorically have to say false to this statement, on the contrary. If there are more of us participating for longer, that means if you want to be successful, you'll have to up your game too. In practice that means that you'd actually have to put more effort, time and energy into GE, if nothing else making it harder (on the guild level). If someone can't advance to level 2 for example, then after he finished he only has a choice, to leave. He finished for that week. Now he'd be able to play again, which doesn't make the game easier, but maybe more enjoyable. And if someone is able to advance? Well we talked about it above, with the right incentives, no one will choose to stay level 1, when he knows he's much more rewarded at level 2 and so on. So the game wouldn't be easier for them either.

Abuse Prevention
N/A.

Summary
Repeatable levels in GE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser110195

I think there is merit to this, but a player should only be able to do a maximum of 64 encounter completions a week, and only be able to repeat a level if there is an entire level not yet done, say for instance you finish level 2, your guild has to have 3 open in order for you to repeat 2, if you feel you have enough gas in the tank to do 2 again but not 3.
 

DeletedUser103370

that is not balance :rolleyes:

balance would be to handle about:
battle points or not in repeat ?
GE points ?
GE championship ?
rewards in chests ?
relics from temple ?

because if I can repeat I would do the 3rd level 10 times or more
and would I then get 10 times all rewards, points and ... ?

That's up to the devs to decide, for obvious reasons I can't work out a proper percentage, they could however figure out how to do it to keep the balance between the levels. Perhaps gradually decreasing rewards, or for example only troops as rewards from the second round...

Btw qutoe from the format guide:
"Balance: Describe what impact this idea will have on other game features. Will it require adjustments or changes? If so, be specific."

Since the impact (besides what I said, that hopefully it would increase participation) would depend on how the rewards are worked out, and I can't answer that, I only described what changes the game would need, which is a simple button. Specific enough isn't it? :)

I think there is merit to this, but a player should only be able to do a maximum of 64 encounter completions a week, and only be able to repeat a level if there is an entire level not yet done, say for instance you finish level 2, your guild has to have 3 open in order for you to repeat 2, if you feel you have enough gas in the tank to do 2 again but not 3.

Yes, the fine details could be worked out and limited in any ways we see fit, I welcome any ideas how it could be done properly!
The goal would be so that even a small player would be able to play even more GE, contribute to his guild. Of course it has to be done in a way, so that it would always worth it more to advance in levels, instead of repeating one.
 
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DeletedUser103370

exactly

what will be the impact of repeating the levels on:
- towers and ranking points
- GE points
- GE championship
and so on

so what will be the adjustments or changes needed to balance doing levels more often

what you wrote under balance is only part of the visual aid


then be honest and write that next time

Balance:
the developers decide that

Okay, I repeat : "Will it require adjustments or changes? If so, be specific."
I said it will require only a BUTTON, which is an exact answer to that part!
And again, it's not like I'm saying you figure it out, none of us CAN!
But instead of trying to attack me on semantics, you could give possible examples if you have something in your mind.

As I gave two examples, and @Augustavian made another, the details could be worked out, it's not hard to understand what would be the point of this.

If I see viable solution how it should be done (at least roughly), then I'll update topic.
 

DeletedUser103370

ok I repeat

Will it require adjustments or changes in
battle points or not in repeat ?
GE points ?
GE championship ?
rewards in chests ?
relics from temple ?

be specific


that is ok IF you write that in balance

Balance:
nobody can do it so the developers will do that

Ok m8, then just continue your pointless argument, I hope their will be creative people too, who'll perhaps try to contribute instead of what you're doing...
 

DeletedUser110195

Yes, the fine details could be worked out and limited in any ways we see fit, I welcome any ideas how it could be done properly!
The goal would be so that even a small player would be able to play even more GE, contribute to his guild. Of course it has to be done in a way, so that it would always worth it more to advance in levels, instead of repeating one.
Well that is easy, if you repeat 2, instead of moving on to 3, you get the lesser chest rewards of 2, you get less tower points for winning fights, less points on GE championship and less guild power. All things that would be acceptable to someone who is sure they can't pull off the next level.

In short, you get greater rewards for the encounters themselves if you go to the next level, better chance of winning more medals in towers if you fight encounters, your guild levels faster. These I think are sufficient incentives to improve your ability to do higher levels of GE.
 

DeletedUser103370

Well that is easy, if you repeat 2, instead of moving on to 3, you get the lesser chest rewards of 2, you get less tower points for winning fights, less points on GE championship and less guild power. All things that would be acceptable to someone who is sure they can't pull off the next level.

In short, you get greater rewards for the encounters themselves if you go to the next level, better chance of winning more medals in towers if you fight encounters, your guild levels faster. These I think are sufficient incentives to improve your ability to do higher levels of GE.

Yeah, the question is how much less, that's what I meant that only the devs could really work that out.
 

DeletedUser103370

you don't contribute to the points that needs to be discussed ?

what else should be discussed when talking about repeating the levels
the players don't care if you use the same button or the developers make a 2nd button

the players would be interested in the things I asked

What else? perhaps instead attacking me why I haven't give a solution in the first place (which I already explained), you could give some viable examples, like @Augustavian... You simply argued how I should have presented the prop...
 

DeletedUser110195

Yeah, the question is how much less, that's what I meant that only the devs could really work that out.
I should think it would be the same you got doing level 2 the first time, all rewards, tower points, championship points and guild power, should be the same for every encounter done a second time(or third, or fourth if your guild unlocks 4 and you don't feel you can do more than 1)
 

DeletedUser103370

I should think it would be the same you got doing level 2 the first time, all rewards, tower points, championship points and guild power, should be the same for every encounter done a second time(or third, or fourth if your guild unlocks 4 and you don't feel you can do more than 1)

I don't really follow now, so you saying repeating should give the same rewards?
 

DeletedUser110195

I don't really follow now, so you saying repeating should give the same rewards?
Same as the first time through it yeah, it wouldn't make sense for it to give more or less than it did the first time through. You're still losing out on the better rewards of the next level.
 

DeletedUser103370

Same as the first time through it yeah, it wouldn't make sense for it to give more or less than it did the first time through. You're still losing out on the better rewards of the next level.

I was thinking of that too, but couldn't it happen then, that for example doing 10 x level 1 would worth it more than advancing to level 2? (not sure, just asking)
 

DeletedUser110195

I was thinking of that too, but couldn't it happen then, that for example doing 10 x level 1 would worth it more than advancing to level 2? (not sure, just asking)
In the scenario where there is no limit on how many times you do any of the levels, of course doing level 1 a thousand times would be better than doing level 2 250 times.

I'm operating on the belief that it would be limited to at most 64 encounters, in that case you would have incentive to improve to doing higher levels, but not wasting the levels unlocked by the guild.
 

DeletedUser103370

obviously the players wouldn't repeat the 1st level

they would repeat the highest level they can be successful with the least:rolleyes:

That's wrong. Personally I only ever do level 1, and I would likely to repeat, also I can assure you that smaller players in our guild, mostly the younger ones of course would do that too given the chance!
And not for the rewards, at level 1 rewards are already so shitty, that I only do it so my guild can get ahead in GE.
 

joesoap

Major-General
i think this idea might take away a players incentive to try to be better, if players can repeat level 1 rather than trying to take on the level 2 then some players will take that easier option & they will take that option every week out of habit, at least now they might try level 2, even if they can only manage to get through the first few encounters, and every week they might try to do better than the week before, basically it gives then something to work towards
 
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