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Plundering is actually stealing

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Ev4ma

Chief Warrant Officer
Indeed. I'm less inclined to "whine" and more inclined to willfully express a little truth instead. Of course very often there isn't a lot we can do about it in life sometimes. With pixels and how we do love those pixels that for some reason pixels become so dear to us, maybe because we have become addictively attached over long periods of time that we don't desire our enjoyment to be plundered. Yes we can look for ways to counter act. Monopoly designs are based on rents and fines not thievery.

All I can hope for in my real life is that someone can read my words not as a whinny baby but as a cry for justice. Let those that sit at long tables who attempt to harmfully rule over aspects of other peoples life and then go on to brag about it suddenly see who they really are or who they might be imitating.

If you dislike being plundered there are various ways to avoid being plundered. You could become the plunderer; plunder those who dare to plunder you, get a good defense; collect on time and although I hate city shields; sadly city shields exist. There's a GB called the Galata Tower too.

But personally, I adore plundering it adds more challenge to the game, plus if you don't like plundering or fights Elvenar is there for you as it has similar game mechanics to FoE.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
If you dislike being plundered there are various ways to avoid being plundered. You could become the plunderer; plunder those who dare to plunder you, get a good defense; collect on time and although I hate city shields; sadly city shields exist. There's a GB called the Galata Tower too.

But personally, I adore plundering it adds more challenge to the game, plus if you don't like plundering or fights Elvenar is there for you as it has similar game mechanics to FoE.
Yes we can develop a defensive strategy which works in our behalf. It enables us to continue to exist in a hostile environment while under attack. I have tried plundering. In itself a challenge too.

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On a side note must clarify that although some players have wished it removed from the game I haven't. For me it isn't about the plundering per say but about the glory that might be attached to it. By all means, to quote what you wrote do adore the invasions into other people territory. I hope you are also aware of the newly awarded game status entitlement that goes along with it? - see below

Plundering by definition is stealing goods, typically using force in a time of disorder. (sounds a little like real world life doesn't)

I would equate plundering with going into the pub for a brew and then stealing the tip money off the table. Well, it is in the game man is the logical argument for the stealie activity. My only objection is the suggestion that the action might be defined as friendly game chivalry or has some honour such as helping to aid others so as to challenge them.

It's thievery for crying out loud. Please don't be handing out soldier medals for plundering. The brag and pattin' each other on the back has been my only pain in my side. Just take the money and run out the bloody back door will yeah. As a barmaid, I'll only shake me head and make a frown as the evil-doers congratulate themselves in the back alley as veteran masters of the drinking game. - no not really!
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
As a barmaid, I'll only shake me head and make a frown as the evil-doers congratulate themselves in the back alley as veteran masters of the drinking game. - no not really!

And here we have the basics of the problem. You are the barmaid, not the bar owner. Bar owner has decided that it is just fine to steal the tip money from the table. He is even supporting it by handing out badges to those who do it and he is organizing special quests for you to find the money and steal it. So, as a barmaid who has a problem with it, you have two options. Quit the bar and find a job at another bar, or accept that the owner decides what is allowed in his bar.
 

Paladiac the Pure

Brigadier-General
And here we have the basics of the problem. You are the barmaid, you have two options. Quit the bar and find a job at another bar, or accept that the owner decides what is allowed in his bar.
Actually, barmaid has 3 options - 3rd option would be to find an alternate method hat to offer a service that result in a seperate set of tips. Many barmaids do this in reality.
 

Emberguard

Legend
And here we have the basics of the problem. You are the barmaid, not the bar owner. Bar owner has decided that it is just fine to steal the tip money from the table. He is even supporting it by handing out badges to those who do it and he is organizing special quests for you to find the money and steal it. So, as a barmaid who has a problem with it, you have two options. Quit the bar and find a job at another bar, or accept that the owner decides what is allowed in his bar.
Depending on country, the tips legally belong to the business not the barmaid due to your employment to the bar owner. In my country legally it's only once the bar owner explicitly states that the tips belong to you that it is actually yours. Prior to that it would be stealing if the barmaid were to keep the tips given by patrons as it belongs to the owner not the maid if the maid doesn't have permission to keep those tips. The owner then can decide if that barmaid keeps all of it, none of it or if it's split between all staff

The above isn't even a analogy, it's literally the law in my country. But it does work well for the discussion if we're comparing to real life situations

Actually, barmaid has 3 options - 3rd option would be to find an alternate method hat to offer a service that result in a seperate set of tips. Many barmaids do this in reality.
Providing the country you're in would find that a legal practice, sure. Where I live there are laws regarding conducting other business while on the clock for an employer
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
Depending on country, the tips legally belong to the business not the barmaid due to your employment to the bar owner. In my country legally it's only once the bar owner explicitly states that the tips belong to you that it is actually yours. Prior to that it would be stealing if the barmaid were to keep the tips given by patrons as it belongs to the owner not the maid if the maid doesn't have permission to keep those tips. The owner then can decide if that barmaid keeps all of it, none of it or if it's split between all staff

So basically the boss decides and the barmaid can go look for other employment if she does not like his decision.

Clear enough.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
Depending on country, the tips legally belong to the business not the barmaid due to your employment to the bar owner... But it does work well for the discussion if we're comparing to real life situations
We can strive to establish who the real owners might be in real life.
 
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Janet Devlin

Corporal
There is no morality, good, bad or indifferent in FoE.
Plundering is a feature of the game
I don't want to agree with that. I agree with you that plundering is a feature of the game but being part of does not automatically make it a good thing?

If there weren't any rules of conduct then I guess you say FOE is completely immune. But it does have rules which indicates it might be possible to have good or bad in the game?


Game Rules

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InnoGames does not accept any publications that the Forge of Empires Team considers illegal, insulting, offensive, threatening, abusive, real-life-aggressive, sexually explicit, pornographic (including, but not limited to drawings and animations), profanity, politically extreme, religiously fanatic, endangering youth, racist, playing down the use of illegal drugs or alcohol, or promoting the use of said substances or in any way inappropriate. Posting links to such content is also not allowed.


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  • Examples:
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  • It is allowed to refer to a player as a noob or to criticize their way of playing using appropriate language.
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But lets look at the rules. Just because INNO thinks it is okay to criticize people and to insult them because they are new to the game does that make it right? Let me ask you this, does your morality rely on what some gaming company decides for you what your morality should be? You be the judge of that!

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to change a thing in the game, I'm all for role play. Sure go ahead and threatened people if you desire to. It is just part of a role playing game. All I want to express is if you can brag about your occupation as a successful poacher I too can say it is not deserving of a glorious medal of honour. That is just another part of a role playing game?
 
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Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
Let me ask you this, does your morality rely on what some gaming company decides for you what your morality should be? You be the judge of that!

Morality has nothing to do with it. Game does not only allow you to plunder, but even asks you to do so in some quests.

What you are doing is asking someone that plays Grand Theft Auto to justify he is stealing cars. It is asking someone that plays Call of Duty to justify he is shooting people

If a guild holds a province in GVG and another guild takes it, is that stealing as well?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to change a thing in the game, I'm all for role play. Sure go ahead and threatened people if you desire to. It is just part of a role playing game. All I want to express is if you can brag about your occupation as a successful poacher I too can say it is not deserving of a glorious medal of honour.

If that were true you should not make comments like this.

The answer is plunders don't consider other players only themselves. It is all about having more and more power for these players. Perhaps they desire to take on the role of an abuser in a game because they are lacking something in their life or they were abused as children.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
If that were true you should not make comments like this.
Not sure what you meant by your comment. I thought this forum was for anyone who plays Forge Of Empires and not just a selected few with a specific point of view. Can you tell me more of what you mean because I don't see anything wrong with any part of my comment. I get the impression but not sure if this is what you meant is that the entire forum is to be used to ask questions or provide feedback but never to express what you might be thinking when playing the game? If that is true please say so. If not, do you simply not understand what I've wrote because I will be happy explain anything in more detail. Perhaps you just disagree with me and that is perfectly fine with me as long as I am able to express my viewpoint which might be different than yours.

What you are doing is asking someone that plays Grand Theft Auto to justify he is stealing cars. It is asking someone that plays Call of Duty to justify he is shooting people

Wrong. To reiterate more fully, I am not asking the developers to make a change. I am not asking INNO to change anything. I am not asking players to change anything or to justify anything. That is their choice. I am expressing what I personally think of plundering (I too have plundered) - it is role playing as a pirate thief and is a selfish maneuver as compared to interactions with friends and guild members.

To put all that in a different way I would say to a friend, "you are awesome" but to an enemy plunder "you suck". I think that is allowed according to the rules right?

If a guild holds a province in GVG and another guild takes it, is that stealing as well?
I would say no that is not the same as plundering because everyone involved is at war with each other.
When we attack the peaceful natives in expeditions that is stealing. Poor natives! :(But then natives are not really real are they?:D
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
Can you tell me more of what you mean because I don't see anything wrong with any part of my comment.

You don't want to change the game. You have no problem with players that plunder, but when they do they are lacking something in their life or they were abused as children.

You do not see anything wrong in that remark?????

I am expressing what I personally think of plundering (I too have plundered) - it is role playing as a pirate thief and is a selfish maneuver as compared to interactions with friends and guild members.

Expressing what you think of it would take one message. You go on and on and on and see no problem in bringing up child abuse in expressing your opinion. For someone only expressing an opinion and having no problem with someone that plunders you seem to be trying very hard to put them away as damaged goods. Well, here's a newsflash for you. I plunder cause it is an easy 200 fp extra a day. That's the one and only reason.

I would say no that is not the same as plundering because everyone involved is at war with each other.

They have invested units and goods to conquer that sector and even more to put a defence in it. You make that all go to waste by taking over their sector. They were first. Shouldn't you respect that?

I am at war with my neighbours. I attack them, they attack me. So since I am at war I am allowed to plunder according to you.Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
Since the sentence about children seems to be bothersome I've edited my post and removed it. There it is gone. I also sincerely apologize to anyone that actually read this forum and was offended by the remark. I did mean it in a general sense and not that everyone that plunders has personal issues but rather where some kind of bullying exists in a game there might be a valid reason for it. Regardless, since it may have caused a problem I promise not to use that reference ever again in the future. I am sorry if it did offend anyone.

____________________________________________________________​

@Knight of ICE :mad:
Wrong again fake news! It is so thick to consider that going into a war situation is the same as randomly attacking the weak and innocent in the game. Wow! As you and your neighbors constantly fight for position with each other then yeah you are at war. Don't rely on me to tell you what to do. You can do what ever you want. Yeah go on and on and do do do.

:o Gee wilikers, here I thought the entire point of the forum was to yeah go on and on and on and on and post and post. But I guess not. In fact if you actually do write something in this forum you may get a reply that will tell you to, "why don't you play some other game - a go go go go away reply" like the replies you have used in the past. Well those replies do suck big time man.
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
Wrong again fake news! It is so thick to consider that going into a war situation is the same as randomly attacking the weak and innocent in the game.

Is it? You could define weak by ranking I guess, although that would not be really accurate, but how do you define innocent? Is it the avatar perhaps?

Wow! As you and your neighbors constantly fight for position with each other then yeah you are at war. Don't rely on me to tell you what to do.

Don't worry. I wouldn't.

Gee wilikers, here I thought the entire point of the forum was to yeah go on and on and on and on and post and post.

If you want to you can, but you have to keep in mind that this is a forum. Comments you make are there for evryone to see, so maybe you should not keep repeating you do not want to change plundering, or the game when your comments clearly show otherwise.

In fact if you actually do write something in this forum you may get a reply that will tell you to, "why don't you play some other game - a go go go go away reply" like the replies you have used in the past. Well those replies do suck big time man.

Don't think I ever replied to you like that in the past, but I am sure you will show me wrong if I did.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
Don't think I ever replied to you like that in the past, but I am sure you will show me wrong if I did.
You are 100% correct. I have been much to relaxed in this forum. In the future if I see a reply coming from you that is not suitable I will report it at once and then remain - - - - - silent - - - .

Is it? You could define weak by ranking I guess, although that would not be really accurate, but how do you define innocent? Is it the avatar perhaps?
Not sure. New to the game perhaps?

If you want to you can, but you have to keep in mind that this is a forum. Comments you make are there for evryone to see, so maybe you should not keep repeating you do not want to change plundering, or the game when your comments clearly show otherwise.

This is where we deviate greatly. You see any difference of opinion other than yours as a potential game changer.

I don't see it that way. I'm just calling it as I observe it. Repeat the repeat. What anyone wants to actually do well it is totally up to them. What anyone really wants to do is totally up to them. What anyone actually does is completely up to them.

I've already made my decisions. If I need to attack a sleepy member to accomplish a game induced requirement because of an INNO "challenge" I don't plunder them. Instead I put all my energy into an expedition or attack in a war effort. Now that's my decision. How anyone else wants to play the game is completely up to them. Besides the only people that can actually change this game are INNO people and I'm not presenting any suggestions here.
 

Knight of ICE

FoE Team
Forum Moderator
You are 100% correct. I have been much to relaxed in this forum. In the future if I see a reply coming from you that is not suitable I will report it at once and then remain - - - - - silent - - - .

You are free to do so, but that does not answer the issue. When did I tell you to go play another game?

Not sure. New to the game perhaps?

To use your own logic, but what if they have broken in to someones home in real life. How can they be innocent?

This is where we deviate greatly. You see any difference of opinion other than yours as a potential game changer.

I don't. I know how it works.

I don't see it that way. I'm just calling it as I observe it. Repeat the repeat. What anyone wants to actually do well it is totally up to them. What anyone really wants to do is totally up to them. What anyone actually does is completely up to them.

If that really was your intention you would not feel this big urge to repeat. You just toned down your posts to make it look like you are not.

I've already made my decisions. If I need to attack a sleepy member to accomplish a game induced requirement because of an INNO "challenge" I don't plunder them. Instead I put all my energy into an expedition or attack in a war effort. Now that's my decision. How anyone else wants to play the game is completely up to them. Besides the only people that can actually change this game are INNO people and I'm not presenting any suggestions here.

Actualy you are making suggestions all the time. You just try to cover it up by saying you do not make any suggestions.

I am sure you will come up with yet another reply, but for me the conversation ends here. You are so in denial of what you are trying to achieve that prolonging it is totally useless.
 

Janet Devlin

Corporal
@Knight of ICE Weird!
You ask me a question, then sarcastically remark that you are sure I will "come up with yet another reply." People sometimes do reply if asked a question. The answer is I am not going to bother to go look up what you wrote for a direct quote. I think it was something like "maybe you should look at playing another game" or something like that. Whatever!

The reason I repeat things is because you are twisting my words and/or making incorrect assumptions about them. What am I trying to achieve? I didn't write anything associated with what I want to achieve here. Well for sure what I do want to do is to not make any suggestions. I believe there is a separate section for that...oh yes, it is called Ideas and includes unformatted, Forward, Do not suggest and Ideas Archive.

I'm not making a suggestion.

You seemed to be upset that I have as you put it "toned down my posts". I think it is better to tone down than to escalate where it becomes a shouting match or something. Strange criticism.
 
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