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One shot kill

TheGreatFinger

Warrant Officer
First, arti bonus against heavy isn't counted.
Second, ranged vs arti difference is 5:2, same as their def differences, I think you forgot to subtract 100% you have without any bonuses.

Anyway I found the source (thought it's dead for ages). It's an extrapolation, and not a very good one at high numbers. If you know how the sheet was made you probably have an idea why. According to this data I should be able to one shot trebs with trebs in Korch, I think I'm not able to do that.
 

Draqone

Corporal
First, arti bonus against heavy isn't counted.
Second, ranged vs arti difference is 5:2, same as their def differences, I think you forgot to subtract 100% you have without any bonuses.

According to this data I should be able to one shot trebs with trebs in Korch, I think I'm not able to do that.
Arti bonus vs heavy is counted but insubstantial. The bonuses are counted AFTER all the percentages. Assume the bonus is 3. To one hit a HMA heavy you need about 500 attack. The difference between 500 and 503 is the difference between 5500% bonus and a 5530% bonus.

The way to check the math is pretty easy, use different units from different ages and see what attack you need to oneshot something like a spearman in someones city defence. My math did check out more-less.
 
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r21r

Major-General
Does not include rogues - crital hit, - kean eye. Pure battle boost does not do it. Oh wait - spear-chuckers are one-hit kills with enough boost - LOL

Find ANY same age troop you can kill with One-Hit - not including Unchanged Rogues. Then, tell us all.
i wasn't talking about AO, but rogues might be following the formula.
i've seen archers doing it on balistas, balistas doing it on balistas
trebuchets doing it on trebuchets/ranged

it is not impossible at any way, but if you ask me for the formula, i do not know it

PS i said about higher era vs lower era because there stats get multiplied (so i consider it as an extra % attack) not sure if they actually have any other advantage except the higher scaling of their base attack - if they don't - they can also show you the "formula"
For a guaranteed one shot kill on HMA units ( 10 - 10 damage) you need the following attack values:

Light unit - ~3500%
Heavy Unit - ~5500%
Fast Unit - ~3500%
Ranged Unit - ~2000%
Artillery unit - ~800%

For a chance at a 1-hit KO you need about half of the above values.
you calculated terain/units weaknesses advantages against others on those numbers ?
 

Draqone

Corporal
you calculated terain/units weaknesses advantages against others on those numbers ?
As explained above, bonus is counted but insubstantial. The bonuses are counted AFTER all the percentages. Assume the bonus is 3. To one hit a HMA heavy you need about 500 attack. The difference between 500 and 503 is the difference between 5500% bonus and a 5530% bonus.
 
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r21r

Major-General
As explained above, bonus is counted but insubstantial. The bonuses are counted AFTER all the percentages. The bonus is 3. To one hit a HMA heavy you need about 500 attack. The difference between 500 and 503 is the difference between 5500% bonus and a 5530% bonus.
ahm , makes sense thanks
 

Draqone

Corporal
What bonus?
First, arti bonus against heavy isn't counted.
Emphasis mine.

To address your next point:
Artillery has a bonus of 6 against heavies. Heavy has a defense bonus of 6 on plains.
In case you don't realise, these two do not cancel each other out unless the attackers base attack (after % increases) equals the defenders base defence (after % increases).

The breakpoint to 1-hit KO is around 20 attack to 1 defence.

If a unit has 26 defence you need 520ish attack to KO it. This would be 514 attack +6 from the boost for HMA units. This is equivalent to roughly 5700% increased attack needed for the trebuchet.

If a unit has 32 defence (26 + 6 from the boost) you need 640ish attack to KO it. This would be 634 attack + 6 from the boost for HMA units. This is equivalent to roughly 7000% increased attack needed for the trebuchet.

As you can see, because the boosts are not multiplied by the %s, the higher the % the less substantial the boost is. Since the Heavy unit we are discussing has no % defence increases his base defence is 26 and by adding 6 we are increasing his defence by about 30% of base.

The treb we are discussing has a theoretical boost of 6000%ish, and a base power of 540. If we add 6 we are increasing it's power by about 1% of base, which is pretty much a rounding error in our theoretical scenario.
 

TheGreatFinger

Warrant Officer
What bonus? Artillery has a bonus of 6 against heavies. Heavy has a defense bonus of 6 on plains.
They don't cancel each other, so need to account for both. But as Draqone pointed out, first is almost negligible. Second should impact the figures quite a lot though, not sure if it's included into those.
 
Of course - my 30 carousels at 8% each is quite formidable too- but as we all know 57 Royal Marbles at 7% is just plain intense!

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If you are going to chase after battle boost - just be aware that when you get to what you think you need based on what you have calculated, it won't to be enough! I have already done that.

Just another 200% - oops still need more, oh my all's I need is just another 200% - and still insufficient - gee whiz - I added another 1000% - LOL - and it's still not enough.

That's a rainbow you can't get to the end to find the pot of Kick-Ass Battle-Boost. Don't get me wrong - I breeze thru GE IV, take out every SAV battle no matter what type troops are used in GvG with just SAM troops, and so on.

OK - Just did some manual battles with my boost against 0% boosted troops - about 2 out of 8 per battle were 1-hits most were the 9-point hits. And that's with serious boost. After reaching an attrition of 5 - there were no more One-Hit takedowns.
 
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r21r

Major-General
OK - Just did some manual battles with my boost against 0% boosted troops - about 2 out of 8 per battle were 1-hits most were the 9-point hits. And that's with serious boost. After reaching an attrition of 5 - there were no more One-Hit takedowns.
if you have time, can you do a couple tests on GvG maps ?
i think that lower era troops will be easier to 1 shot cause of smaller terain etc bonuses.
Just another 200% - oops still need more, oh my all's I need is just another 200% - and still insufficient - gee whiz - I added another 1000% - LOL - and it's still not enough.
yeah, i told before, Rail Guns stopped 1-shot Iron troops ~70 attrition.. dunno if its an actual analogy of ~5.000% extra attack vs defence but dragone's post makes sense to me
 

TheGreatFinger

Warrant Officer
what does that have to do with one-hit kills
Do I really have to explain? You make a choice - one-hit kills or an extra 1k fp. Don't tell me it's irrelevant, as you started bragging here, not me. Just telling you the price you pay.
When you can't continue your argument - do what any good Politician does - obfuscate the discussion!
What argument and what discussion? My comment is related to disappointment with attack bonus, when I replied, your comment about testing the thing wasn't even complete. I'm not disappointed with my attack and I told you the reason, think it's within the bounds of discussion?
Original discussion is over, Draqone answered the question and explained details, there's not much to add to the subject. Your test input is valuable, we all appreciate the effort, but I wouldn't call it discussion or arguments, it's just data.